Teachers Attending "White Guilt" Conference in Minnesota. Because You Know, Whites Are More Privileged!

[Zero Sum 305]

And this part deserves a separate reply:

"Americas strength" might include things like..

national cohesion,

compliance with laws,

being a contributor of tax dollars, not a tax drain.

industrious,

loyalty to this country,

Embracing this countries, language and traditions and founding principles.

I hardly see "Interesting restaurants" and *new strains of blood* as serious additions of "strength" to the nation.... but feel free to submit a more serious list of what you meant when you claimed "diversity" is making america stronger. (suggesting those they replaced were inferior).

Because it is the only part of your post that holds any actual substance to discuss beyond opinion of personal nature.

1. National cohesion.

Excellent point. Do you see a cultural disintegration of the USA as a result of diverse cultures? I do not. In fact, with the new generations that come up embracing diversity, we overcome barriers such as those that would divide us precisely because the young ones are not hung up on those differences. This spells out doom for those that embrace hate. Don't like it huh?

2. Compliance with laws.

Another beautiful point. Crime occurs everywhere- its part of the human condition. Assuming newcomers are responsible for a greater fraction of crime is a theme that is repeated throughout history as a function of an already seated population that is xenophobic. Does this exonerate wrong-doers that come in and those that would (another innuendo from those that classify entire newcomer populations in the actions of a few) defend them? No. Personal responsibility is important and must be held up to all members of a society. ALL. Including those that use the law to discriminate.

3. Taxes.

For this you need hard data, not summarized information from estimates. You must be referring to illegal populations more often than those that are here legally. And rightly so. Illegals damage the system and those that contribute to it. Why then, are legals put into this same boat? Perhaps its more to do with the opportunities for advancement they do not possess once here? This is where you may inject politics (even hack politics) into the debate.

Even under these considerations, we could also assume that some illegals contribute to the tax revenue stream of the nation and some do not participate in the public funds drain.

Be specific, which you won't in all likely events (judging from past 'contributions' of yours).

4. Industriousness.

We're getting a little off the map on this one. We could claim specifics about what immigrant populations contribute in terms of work, achievement, and how much they put in to accomplish these things. This you would need to compare to a national average for all in the USA. And this would likely fail you, because you would be forced to look at all achievements across the board and notice that immigrants are just as capable when in comparable social and economical circumstances as 'natives.' We could make the case for new arrivals to be even more industrious than their native counterparts, if anything. I know this is probably what you may not want to think about.

5. National loyalty.

Excellent point. What do you suggest to gauge this? Military service? National civil service of some sort? I'm game for that. In fact, there was one attempt recently in Congress to begin such a 'loyalty' program. But political hackery got the best of it. Eventually it will come to fruition- something like the Dream Act will happen in the next few years.

I do not expect much of a response from you on this.

6. Embracing founding principles, language/traditions.

A loaded topic to be sure.

A. Traditions. Not sure how you can force someone from Vietnam to start a Turkey dinner every Thankgsgiving. But I am sure many do. And I assume they would do so out of a sense of integration to the US Culture. I have personally been to such kinds of family gatherings where the cohesive factor was the US tradition, being participated by members of several immigrant groups. Perhaps it is you whom is out of touch with what immigrants are doing these days...

B. Language. Nothing can be clearer. Young immigrants and second generationers are for the most part culturally American. More so in many cases than the native populations already here- speaking better English, with better grammar structure, and better overall cultural awareness of the US culture than those that have been here for generations. A real sucker for people that rant about the loss of America to these immigrants yet themselves become more and more retarded in not even knowing the nation's traditions and language structure very well. Ironic.

C. Founding principles. You mean democracy, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? I am sure many of the recent immigrants are here precisely for that. Too bad 'native' attitudes at times seem to contradict these pursuits.

Speaking of "people like you" you remind me a lot of elmcityhaven.

Define 'people like you' before implying things that are untrue.

As the Gipper once said- "There you go again".

All that keyboard work and the content was Danno, Danno, Danno.

When you get back to the topic, I might rejoin.

I believe I hit the topic we were going at in my next post.

Don't try to hide your hand- you got caught diverting the topic into the personal the moment you got vague about defining your perspective. No need to continue hiding your cowardice.

[Danno 1,228]

1. National cohesion.

Excellent point. Do you see a cultural disintegration of the USA as a result of diverse cultures? I do not. In fact, with the new generations that come up embracing diversity, we overcome barriers such as those that would divide us precisely because the young ones are not hung up on those differences. This spells out doom for those that embrace hate. Don't like it huh?

2. Compliance with laws.

Another beautiful point. Crime occurs everywhere- its part of the human condition. Assuming newcomers are responsible for a greater fraction of crime is a theme that is repeated throughout history as a function of an already seated population that is xenophobic. Does this exonerate wrong-doers that come in and those that would (another innuendo from those that classify entire newcomer populations in the actions of a few) defend them? No. Personal responsibility is important and must be held up to all members of a society. ALL. Including those that use the law to discriminate.

3. Taxes.

For this you need hard data, not summarized information from estimates. You must be referring to illegal populations more often than those that are here legally. And rightly so. Illegals damage the system and those that contribute to it. Why then, are legals put into this same boat? Perhaps its more to do with the opportunities for advancement they do not possess once here? This is where you may inject politics (even hack politics) into the debate.

Even under these considerations, we could also assume that some illegals contribute to the tax revenue stream of the nation and some do not participate in the public funds drain.

Be specific, which you won't in all likely events (judging from past 'contributions' of yours).

4. Industriousness.

We're getting a little off the map on this one. We could claim specifics about what immigrant populations contribute in terms of work, achievement, and how much they put in to accomplish these things. This you would need to compare to a national average for all in the USA. And this would likely fail you, because you would be forced to look at all achievements across the board and notice that immigrants are just as capable when in comparable social and economical circumstances as 'natives.' We could make the case for new arrivals to be even more industrious than their native counterparts, if anything. I know this is probably what you may not want to think about.

5. National loyalty.

Excellent point. What do you suggest to gauge this? Military service? National civil service of some sort? I'm game for that. In fact, there was one attempt recently in Congress to begin such a 'loyalty' program. But political hackery got the best of it. Eventually it will come to fruition- something like the Dream Act will happen in the next few years.

I do not expect much of a response from you on this.

6. Embracing founding principles, language/traditions.

A loaded topic to be sure.

A. Traditions. Not sure how you can force someone from Vietnam to start a Turkey dinner every Thankgsgiving. But I am sure many do. And I assume they would do so out of a sense of integration to the US Culture. I have personally been to such kinds of family gatherings where the cohesive factor was the US tradition, being participated by members of several immigrant groups. Perhaps it is you whom is out of touch with what immigrants are doing these days...

B. Language. Nothing can be clearer. Young immigrants and second generationers are for the most part culturally American. More so in many cases than the native populations already here- speaking better English, with better grammar structure, and better overall cultural awareness of the US culture than those that have been here for generations. A real sucker for people that rant about the loss of America to these immigrants yet themselves become more and more retarded in not even knowing the nation's traditions and language structure very well. Ironic.

C. Founding principles. You mean democracy, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? I am sure many of the recent immigrants are here precisely for that. Too bad 'native' attitudes at times seem to contradict these pursuits.

I admire your lengthy post but you made two huge errors.

1. You assumed my list of THings that lead to national strength were in fact a list of "Things immigrants lack" which it wasn't.

2. You set out to show how the last few decades of mass immigration has made america Stronger yet you played defense. (and a lame job at that).

Your homework- Rewrite your piece above showing how having a wide diversity of cultures and Ethnic communities all gathering in this country "IMPROVES" this country.

[Zero Sum 305]

You have to love it how you assume I am making personal assertions. Once again your reading comprehension is faulty. Let me bolden my language- for you to notice what I mean.

I admire your lengthy post but you made two huge errors.

1. You assumed my list of THings that lead to national strength were in fact a list of "Things immigrants lack" which it wasn't.

2. You set out to show how the last few decades of mass immigration has made america Stronger yet you played defense. (and a lame job at that).

Your homework- Rewrite your piece above showing how having a wide diversity of cultures and Ethnic communities all gathering in this country "IMPROVES" this country.

But kudos to your clarification, for once. I in fact do not make the statement nor do I assume that is indeed what you think. Maybe if you stated your opinion in clear, concise English, you wouldn't have that problem.

I do not seek to show anything, Danno. I am not sure whose posts you're reading.

Your homework: Write clearly and don't hide your personal feelings about the topics you write about. Be succint.

[Zero Sum 305]

Diversity is an improvement due to the cultural richness it provides, in a society that has moved on beyond petty reasons to dislike and hate based on expired notions of what constitutes a 'nation.' And all of it is devoid of any directional value, beyond the value of getting rid of intolerant attitudes.

Your line of thinking of defending intolerance just may be past due. And that must incense you, I think.

[Danno 1,228]

Diversity is an improvement due to the cultural richness it provides, in a society that has moved on beyond petty reasons to dislike and hate based on expired notions of what constitutes a 'nation.' And all of it is devoid of any directional value, beyond the value of getting rid of intolerant attitudes.

Your line of thinking of defending intolerance just may be past due. And that must incense you, I think.

Finally we are getting to the heart of your position.

-"Cultural richness" is the paramount national goal.

- These new cultures are more tolerant of others than the "old timers".

[Zero Sum 305]

Uh-huh, Danno reading comp 101: a new society (read: modern) where a mix of cultures (melting pot) = tolerance (including the predominant, 'majority' white cultures) [what I wrote up until now] = new cultures that are more tolerant than the intolerant idiots that already have attitude problems [what he read somewhere in the ether, yet I did not write].

Maybe the intolerance is blocking more than just regular reading comp. Now I feel sorry for you.

This 'new,' modern society that is emerging is one that I already stated isn't a big deal because its mainly a construct of human society to divide ourselves. Same goes for preserving some homogeneous 'sameness' that is an excuse to exclude others. Pretty pathetic, and hiding behind the mantle of 'there goes the neighborhood' in a generalized fashion is a clear indicator of where your real feelings lie. Then you have the gaul to demand 'fact' from others?

[Danno 1,228]

Uh-huh, Danno reading comp 101: a new society (read: modern) where a mix of cultures (melting pot) = tolerance (including the predominant, 'majority' white cultures) [what I wrote up until now] = new cultures that are more tolerant than the intolerant idiots that already have attitude problems [what he read somewhere in the ether, yet I did not write].

Maybe the intolerance is blocking more than just regular reading comp. Now I feel sorry for you.

This 'new,' modern society that is emerging is one that I already stated isn't a big deal because its mainly a construct of human society to divide ourselves. Same goes for preserving some homogeneous 'sameness' that is an excuse to exclude others. Pretty pathetic, and hiding behind the mantle of 'there goes the neighborhood' in a generalized fashion is a clear indicator of where your real feelings lie. Then you have the gaul to demand 'fact' from others?

Ok Zero, you win, White Flight ... and Black Flight for that matter are just a construct for the intolerant, there is no reality involved that I mentioned is just goes to prove I hate everyone who doesn't look and think like me.

[Zero Sum 305]

Ok Zero, you win, White Flight ... and Black Flight for that matter are just a construct for the intolerant, there is no reality involved that I mentioned is just goes to prove I hate everyone who doesn't look and think like me.

I am not looking to win anything. I merely want you to say things clearly without any more of your idiotic innuendo. Things happen for a reason, and those reasons can be just as crazy as the people that think the things they do.

I really don't know who it is you're trying to 'play.' Maybe you win by wasting my time?