Rediculous

[Little_My 464]

I don't think there is really anything "God given" about immigration rights and immigration laws. We all have the right to choose our spouse freely and with no regard to nationalities or state borders, but unfortunately that right does not extend to our ability to freely choose where we want to reside with that spouse. Love may not know any boundaries - but immigration laws do.

I can relate to the need to vent, I think most people in these forums can. I doubt anyone would say that this process is not frustrating and complicated and infuriating and a million other negative things, but at the end of the day I can also understand why a country like the US - or any other country really - has these laws and procedures in place. It is a big bureaucratic machine that moves slowly and sometimes inefficiently, but at the same time no other country has as enormous number of intending immigrants, legal or illegal, attempting to access the country as the US.

No one has the right to immigrate, unless the laws of that particular country you intend to immigrate to grant you that right. It's not guaranteed in any way, and as JimVaPhuong pointed out, there are countries that are much stricter in terms of immigration laws than the US. I might want to live in Brazil one day - but I have no right to just decide to do so, unless I do it according to the laws. I have no right to just stay in the US after my F1 visa expires, just as my spouse has no right to just come to Finland and stay there. This is not about rights. It's about laws and policies, and when those laws and policies are followed properly by the intending immigrant, things usually go just fine. I think one of the main issues with immigration is that too many people think that they "have the right to x, y and z" no matter what the laws actually say. The other side of rights is the responsibilities and obligations that come with them - and too often that side tends to be forgotten.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

First they make two law abiding, tax paying citizens who just want to be together wait six to eight months. Then they threaten to not allow the two people to be together, if there is the slightest documentation error or other such tiny mistake. How many lives have they ruined anyway? But of course illegal aliens are welcomed with open arms if they'll just vote for the crook politicians running this Circus. That could only come from our cold as ice heartless Government bureaucrats who don't give a flying Rat's #### about anyone.

Illegal aliens can not vote. You must be a citizen to vote. No one who followed the rules had their lives destroyed. The procedure I ahave been through so far, for my wife and 2 children, has been nothing compared to the wonderful life I received in return, You voluntarily entered a procedure to marry a foreign person. Follow through.

[notmuch88tosay 21]

Thanks for the reply Mrs.Finland-USA and Gary and Alla,

Yes, you're right. I did have it wrong.

I see the situation in a new way now.

Thanks for your input.

Take care,

notmuch88tosay

[wshc 46]

Thanks for the reply Mrs.Finland-USA and Gary and Alla,

Yes, you're right. I did have it wrong.

I see the situation in a new way now.

Thanks for your input.

Take care,

notmuch88tosay

You had it right the first time, no need to change your mind. Although the comments and advice you have received in this thread are excellent, that doesn't make them correct. I have great respect for Jim's knowledge on these issues, but we disagree on marriage and immigration being a right. Until the US Government gets in the business of approving all marriages, doing background checks on EVERY US citizen they have no right to discriminate against US citizens that want to marry a foreign national. A timely background check and basic common sense rules to follow are okay, but not a process that keeps loved ones apart for over 30- 45 days. As a US citizen we have certain rights and one of them is quick and speedy as well as fair government processes. Most people on this forum don't see it that way so maybe I am old fashioned but I believe in a government that works for the people, not a government that doesn’t care about the people.

No one can justify this process to me because these people have separated my wife of 27 years and me for over 9 months now because of a sheet of paper. This system is broken, so never forget how badly the system works. When the time comes to vote, vote for the ones that want to fix the system, not the ones that want to invest in their future by bringing in millions of new voters.

[notmuch88tosay 21]

Hi wshc,

Thanks for your reply and opinion.

I agree with what you say. When I voiced my opinion on this forum earlier, it was obvious that the most vocal people here had a different opinion than I did, so I concluded it was a waste of my time to voice my opinion here.

The people on this forum do have valid points and good arguments on both side of the argument.

People like myself also have an opinion and come to forums like this one to voice our opinions. But when the opinions on a forum are so one-sided... why bother?

You are right, U.S. Government officials don't have the right to discriminate against U.S. citizens. The beaurocrats are not held accountable in any way for their ultimate decisions when it comes to issuing or denying Fiancee Visas. That is absolutetly ridiculous and inexcusible.

The Government official can decide that they see themself as a mini-Dictaor and act in that way, and there is nothing that those who are effected by the beaurocrat, the taxpayers who pay his salary, can do about it.

Government employees bully and victimize taxpayers everyday and no one says anything about it.

We elect our Government officials and employees to protect and serve us, but we ultimately are their employers. And when the employee (Government offical) makes life difficult for the employer (the taxpayer) for no good reason, then things need to change.

It is a machine. An uncaring heartless broken incompetent machine that is outdated and waaaay too slow.

You are right, as U.S. citizens who pay for the Government that controls every aspect of our lives to be able to function, we have certain rights. Including quick, speedy and fair Government processes.

Sometimes I think that the Fiancee Visa process takes as long as it does because the Government employee is idily dwelling in the hope that most of the relationships they are in charge of will fall apart before the interview dates arrive.

What are the beaurocrats doing during the eight month wait anyway? Counting grains of sand on the beach? Calculating the mathematical probability of the relationships that are in their hands falling apart?

I think that there is probably only a small percentage of Government officials and employees who make things difficult, exessively time wasting and painful for taxpayers, but they a part of the broken gears in the broken Government machine.

Why is the U.S. in trillions of dollars of debt? Why is there so much corruption in politics? Because of self-serving politicians who exist to serve themself, their party and their lobbiest and Union buddies and not the U.S. taxpayers who they are supposed to serve.

Because of uncaring incompetent Government beaurocrats and employees who don't know who pays their salary or why they are doing what they do in their job each day.

You are right, the system is broken. Those who want to close their eyes to this and remain silent will allow the 800 pound Gorrila, who they feed with their tax dollars, to take more and more of their rights and freedoms away each year... until they have almost none.

Take care,

notmuch88tosay

[TracyTN 237]

You had it right the first time, no need to change your mind. Although the comments and advice you have received in this thread are excellent, that doesn't make them correct. I have great respect for Jim's knowledge on these issues, but we disagree on marriage and immigration being a right. Until the US Government gets in the business of approving all marriages, doing background checks on EVERY US citizen they have no right to discriminate against US citizens that want to marry a foreign national. A timely background check and basic common sense rules to follow are okay, but not a process that keeps loved ones apart for over 30- 45 days. As a US citizen we have certain rights and one of them is quick and speedy as well as fair government processes. Most people on this forum don't see it that way so maybe I am old fashioned but I believe in a government that works for the people, not a government that doesn't care about the people.

No one can justify this process to me because these people have separated my wife of 27 years and me for over 9 months now because of a sheet of paper. This system is broken, so never forget how badly the system works. When the time comes to vote, vote for the ones that want to fix the system, not the ones that want to invest in their future by bringing in millions of new voters.

USCIS is under the Dept of Homeland Security. Sure, your wife and my husband are not terrorists. If a terrorist were trying to scam a US citizen into marriage so they can reside here...they wouldn't know this unless they check them out, right? And if they didn't, and one landed on our shores and committed something akin to 9/11, you'd probably be the first one hollering 'why didn't they do more to protect us??' So they really can't win.

It's not anyone's fault - including mine - that I fell in love with a non US citizen. I had the perfect right to move to the UK if I so desired. I would still have to go through scrutiny to reside there as well. Even at that, countries like the UK have, on the whole, such woefully inadequate immigration systems that their infrastructure is crumbling under the pressure. Is that really what we want just because we're like children who want what we want NOW? Seriously?

You have the right to pursue happiness however you see fit. They have the duty to protect us. The two cannot meet in the middle without a slight 'rub.' Unless you'd rather they stop trying to protect us.

[notmuch88tosay 21]

Hi TracyTN,

Thanks for your rely and opinion.

So it takes 8 months to determine whether or not someone is a terrorist or not?

Can't they just look in their database of suspected and known terrorists? How long would that take them, 15 minutes?

So what is being done during the other 7 months and 29 days? Are the beaurocrats counting grains of sand on the beach? Are they calculating the mathematical probability of the relationships that are in their hands falling apart? So that they can celebrate and feel better about their depressing lifes?

Take care,

notmuch88tosay

[TracyTN 237]

Hi TracyTN,

Thanks for your rely and opinion.

So it takes 8 months to determine whether or not someone is a terrorist or not?

Can't they just look in their database of suspected and known terrorists? How long would that take them, 15 minutes?

So what is being done during the other 7 months and 29 days? Are the beaurocrats counting grains of sand on the beach? Are they calculating the mathematical probability of the relationships that are in their hands falling apart? So that they can celebrate and feel better about their depressing lifes?

Take care,

notmuch88tosay

I thought you would have learned this by now - simply by reading around a bit.

The thousands of applications - of various types - received by USCIS daily all go through the same process. They are first put through an 'intake' where a clerk checks that the necessary basics are in place (forms are signed, correct fee is included, etc.)

Once the application makes it to the top of a very hefty pile, and on to an adjudicator's desk - then the processing actually begins. You're right in that the background checks themselves are likely pretty fast.

It may be hard for you to believe, but adjudicators do not sit at their desks all day trying to figure out a way to screw up your life. You might want to have a read of this - from a former USCIS adjudicator. A salient quote from it: "But by in large, it's a monumental task to process the volume of stuff that would come through on a daily basis." http://www.visajourn...dicator-q-and-a

People complain when the fees go up. They go up because they're trying to get the staff in place that is needed to speed up the very process you're complaining about. USCIS is self sustaining, meaning their ONLY funding is from fees. They get no taxpayer funds to do what they do.

I'm not suggesting the process is perfect, but I think you're being a tad unreasonable given the sheer number of applications they must process. You're letting your frustration with your personal wait interfere with logic and reason. I know that is hard to do when separated from your loved one - I've been there, too -- but the one thing I have gained from all of this is patience and an understanding of - and respect for - the process itself.

*edited for typo*

Edited April 25, 2011 by TracyTN

[wshc 46]

I never was against the logic of doing a background check to protect from terrorist. I have said all along that is reasonable. But it should take no more than 30-45 days.

If a terrorist wants to come to the country, they would not be using the immigraiton system. They come in through the OPEN southern border with Mexico. Be real about this. USCIS is a government agency that runs very very poorly, no matter where their financing comes from. There are no laws that say it can not process faster. There are no statutory waiting periods that an application has to be on file before it is processed for a certain amount of time. No waiting periods for anyone to enter the country. 24 hour processing would be legal!! The reason it takes so long is because they don't care that it goes faster and the USCIS apologist accept it. The people that work there are good people I am sure, but they have no incentive to work quicker. They get paid the same no matter how many applications are processed. Thanks to public service unions even the slowest performers can usually not get released or fired.

Yes, there is nothing we can do about it, but we don't have to try and justify it or explain it away either.

Probably most people that think USCIS is doing a good job just can't wait for the same government to control healthcare too.

Edited April 25, 2011 by wshc

[TracyTN 237]

I'm not sure how I can be more clear. Never did I say background checks were taking 30-45 days, nor did I say USCIS is without fault. I think they're doing their best with what they have.

We all have our own opinions about it - I was just presenting mine. If you'd rather think they are doing this to be evil, or that they are, on the whole, ####### - that's your right, but I won't agree with you.

[Moomin 292]

Do not you see the irony here? I could not marry my fiancee who was here on tourist visa and let her stay here. i was told, my fiancee has to go back and wait. Also marriage while on tourist visa is NO-NO. Why? Why the government tells me what I should and should NOT do? What freedom are we talking about?

i am really surprised that people still want to come to the us.

If you'd let people adjust from all sorts of visas I think it would be nearly impossible to get a visa in the first place since it is a non-immigrant visa. But marry your fiance on a tourist visa; nobody's holding you back from doing that, right? : )

Yes, I am quite baffled that I want to reside to the US myself. That hasn't been on my mind before but since I have no intensions of dragging my soon to be stepson 4000 miles away(from his biological mother) that's the way things work out. Home is where the heart is and it's a long, looong road. Besides, try applying for a fiance visa in Denmark which you can't since it doesn't exist. There is the money aspect of seeing each other(meeting in person) but the travel company charging a huge amount or someone draining your account might be the blame. It IS extreme what you have to go through to be with your loved ones and sometimes I find the process ridiculous and painful and have atleast 50 ideas on how the law should be but the point is I am willing to be part of the circus since it'll take me to the end of the rainbow eventually.

Anyways, I think it's possible to fall inlove and move in together first time seeing each other and I wanted ever so much to have stayed with Stephen the first time and throw the passport into Lake Michigan. I spent all my savings on a 2nd and 3rd trip to calm the butterflies down and get a sense of reality of what was going on.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

If I had a say in this, I would eliminate illegal immigration by putting money and boots away from the wars and to the border.

I would also reduce legal immigration substantially by getting rid of this "poverty line" clause. If you want to live in the US, you need to show that you won't become the occupant of a tent city or ghetto. On the same token, I would end chain immigration. An immigrant should be grateful that he or she got the opportunity to live in this great country. No need to bring the whole clan over.

And I would offer expedited service for a 100% surcharge so that those with deep pockets get preferred treatment. That's the American way.

[rin and john 71]

I never was against the logic of doing a background check to protect from terrorist. I have said all along that is reasonable. But it should take no more than 30-45 days.

If a terrorist wants to come to the country, they would not be using the immigraiton system. They come in through the OPEN southern border with Mexico. Be real about this. USCIS is a government agency that runs very very poorly, no matter where their financing comes from. There are no laws that say it can not process faster. There are no statutory waiting periods that an application has to be on file before it is processed for a certain amount of time. No waiting periods for anyone to enter the country. 24 hour processing would be legal!! The reason it takes so long is because they don't care that it goes faster and the USCIS apologist accept it. The people that work there are good people I am sure, but they have no incentive to work quicker. They get paid the same no matter how many applications are processed. Thanks to public service unions even the slowest performers can usually not get released or fired.

\

I would allow everyone to adjust status from within the USA since the vast majority already do. In 2008, 367,000 aliens were granted LPR status as the spouse or child of a USC. Another 103,000 were granted LPR status as the spouse or child of a LPR for a total of 470,000 spouse/child LPRs. Of these 470k, we can assume that about 70,000 to 80,000 were K visa entries based on 2007 and 2008 K visa entries. For the remaining 400,000 they either received an immigrant visa abroad or filed AOS from within the USA. Given that 60% of all new GC recipients already live in the USA, it is fairly safe to assume that a significant number of the remaining 400,000 adjusted status from within the USA

I would eliminate the USCIS petition process for K-visas. It is essentially a pre-approval process to evaluate a person from a security standpoint as admissible to the USA. The US State Department already does this for a significant majority of visas.

In 2008, there were 175 million non-immigrant admissions into the USA. The vast majority of these were from Canada and Mexico with multiple crossings by the same person. Another 39 million were admitted with an I-94 arrival/departure card. Of these 39 million, only 59,000 were admitted as K1/K2/K3/K4. So the K visa entries represent 0.03% of all non-immigrant entries and 0.15% of all I-94 arrivals. The USCIS' first contact with many of these admissions occurred at the border without three months of petition processing. Many came on the VWP or received visas at an embassy without pre-approval by USCIS. So why not do the same for family members of US citizens? Allow them to initially apply at the embassy, get a visa; come to the USA; and then begin the I-130/I-485 process. The odds of one of them being a terrorist is no better or worse than the millions entering without several months of USCIS review.

http://www.dhs.gov/files/statistics/public...s/yearbook.shtm

[wshc 46]

Hi wshc,

Thanks for your reply and opinion.

Take care,

notmuch88tosay

[wshc 46]

I would allow everyone to adjust status from within the USA since the vast majority already do. In 2008, 367,000 aliens were granted LPR status as the spouse or child of a USC. Another 103,000 were granted LPR status as the spouse or child of a LPR for a total of 470,000 spouse/child LPRs. Of these 470k, we can assume that about 70,000 to 80,000 were K visa entries based on 2007 and 2008 K visa entries. For the remaining 400,000 they either received an immigrant visa abroad or filed AOS from within the USA. Given that 60% of all new GC recipients already live in the USA, it is fairly safe to assume that a significant number of the remaining 400,000 adjusted status from within the USA

I would eliminate the USCIS petition process for K-visas. It is essentially a pre-approval process to evaluate a person from a security standpoint as admissible to the USA. The US State Department already does this for a significant majority of visas.

In 2008, there were 175 million non-immigrant admissions into the USA. The vast majority of these were from Canada and Mexico with multiple crossings by the same person. Another 39 million were admitted with an I-94 arrival/departure card. Of these 39 million, only 59,000 were admitted as K1/K2/K3/K4. So the K visa entries represent 0.03% of all non-immigrant entries and 0.15% of all I-94 arrivals. The USCIS' first contact with many of these admissions occurred at the border without three months of petition processing. Many came on the VWP or received visas at an embassy without pre-approval by USCIS. So why not do the same for family members of US citizens? Allow them to initially apply at the embassy, get a visa; come to the USA; and then begin the I-130/I-485 process. The odds of one of them being a terrorist is no better or worse than the millions entering without several months of USCIS review.

http://www.dhs.gov/files/statistics/public...s/yearbook.shtm

Your post and your ideas are great! We are just pusing paper for absolutely no reason. This system is keeping my wife of 27 years away from me and our kids. Over 9 months now. This is a broken system.