what did your family say?

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

how would you feel if some faith decided to make it their church doctrine that upon conception you are hindu? or christian? or even a druid? would you not feel that your religion is marginalized/ignored/downplayed by that doctrine?

I would first have to care what other faiths teach

i'll just have to make one then and see what you have to say then

everyone must have pizza on friday will be a tenant in this religion

[Jenn! 918]

everyone must have pizza on friday will be a tenant in this religion

Now that's a religion I can swallow!

Ahahahahahahaha

[noura 0]

how would you feel if some faith decided to make it their church doctrine that upon conception you are hindu? or christian? or even a druid? would you not feel that your religion is marginalized/ignored/downplayed by that doctrine?

I would first have to care what other faiths teach

i'll just have to make one then and see what you have to say then

everyone must have pizza on friday will be a tenant in this religion

so, if i love pizza, does that automatically make me a follower of your religion?

pay no attention to the charlie behind the screen!

[amal 4]

We use the term "revert" because we believe that everyone is born Muslim and it's our families that change us. So we're not converting to a new religion we're reverting back to our original religion. Does that make sense?

i suppose that one works, although it does relegate all other religions to being insignificant.

actually, does it help to know that islam means "submission to the will of god"

when a person is born, they are submitting to the will of god because it is in gods hands as to what happens to them...hence islam starting at birth

ok. is that also pretty much not the same with christianity? i can see the logic in the statement of that when one is born their life is in the hands of god - but i think it's arrogant to proclaim everyone a muslim when born. it dismisses all other faiths.

well..no, in christianity , it just means you follow the teachings of Jesus and you are considered Christian after you are baptised. you are not "technically" Christian at birth. It's not dismissing other faiths because the technical term "islam" means "submission of the will of god" and that is how we all come into this world, under the definition of Islam.

I don't think I can explain that any better...

i've never been baptized and yet i consider myself christian more than any other faith.

on one hand you state one is not following christianity until they are baptized. on the other, one is a muslim at birth with no ceremony mentioned so far. how would you feel if some faith decided to make it their church doctrine that upon conception you are hindu? or christian? or even a druid? would you not feel that your religion is marginalized/ignored/downplayed by that doctrine?

It would not bother me in the least. I would definitely research that religion and see why they are claiming that and if they have a way to justify it, then all power to them because everybody is allowed to believe what their hearts choose to believe.

And being a Christian for 27 years you can practice Christianity and be Christian but will not enter Heaven if you are not Baptised. (now that is only in my denomination..I can't speak for other denominations) Therefore, leaving me with the PERSONAL opinion that you are not "technically" Christian at birth. You are Christian when your family either takes you to church or teaches you about Christianity. There is not a ceremony to be "Islamic" (yes I'm going to say it again) since the definition of Islam is the Submission of the will of God. I'm not saying that each person is Muslim..I'm saying they are under Islam until they are taught otherwise. (at least this is the whole meaning behind "revert" that they are trying to get accross to you) I hope this explains it better. If you have any more questions, please do not hesitate to ask

[Veiled Princess 1]

If you have any more questions, please do not hesitate to ask

Please DON'T encourage him

i'll just have to make one then and see what you have to say then

Well since I believe Islam to be the only truth I would not pay much attention to what your religion taught.... now, since you claim to believe that Islam is a sham, why does the 'doctrine' involved cause you so much distress???

[amal 4]

sorry...

i just feel that if someone "doesn't get it" then someone has to have the patience for them until a reasonable conclusion can be met............there are times when conclusions can't be reached and that's ok...but if I CAN help somebody, I will do my best to do so. AND as long as they are debating in a civil way, I will be more than civil back..... It's only fair...

[Veiled Princess 1]

sorry...

i just feel that if someone "doesn't get it" then someone has to have the patience for them until a reasonable conclusion can be met............there are times when conclusions can't be reached and that's ok...but if I CAN help somebody, I will do my best to do so. AND as long as they are debating in a civil way, I will be more than civil back..... It's only fair...

I was just teasing... sorry I should have inserted appropriate smiley

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

how would you feel if some faith decided to make it their church doctrine that upon conception you are hindu? or christian? or even a druid? would you not feel that your religion is marginalized/ignored/downplayed by that doctrine?

I would first have to care what other faiths teach

i'll just have to make one then and see what you have to say then

everyone must have pizza on friday will be a tenant in this religion

so, if i love pizza, does that automatically make me a follower of your religion?

pay no attention to the charlie behind the screen!

yes, you will automatically be a follower

Now that's a religion I can swallow!

Ahahahahahahaha

you're on a roll today ain't ya?

It would not bother me in the least. I would definitely research that religion and see why they are claiming that and if they have a way to justify it, then all power to them because everybody is allowed to believe what their hearts choose to believe.

And being a Christian for 27 years you can practice Christianity and be Christian but will not enter Heaven if you are not Baptised. (now that is only in my denomination..I can't speak for other denominations) Therefore, leaving me with the PERSONAL opinion that you are not "technically" Christian at birth. You are Christian when your family either takes you to church or teaches you about Christianity. There is not a ceremony to be "Islamic" (yes I'm going to say it again) since the definition of Islam is the Submission of the will of God. I'm not saying that each person is Muslim..I'm saying they are under Islam until they are taught otherwise. (at least this is the whole meaning behind "revert" that they are trying to get accross to you) I hope this explains it better. If you have any more questions, please do not hesitate to ask

given that the catholic church doctrine holds that life begins at conception (that's conception not contraception vp and jenn so don't get excited) i suppose some faith could quite easily incorporate that idea into their doctrine. it makes about as much sense as one being a muslim when born, at least to me.

not all christian religions require baptism btw. as for whether i was baptized or not i have no idea. not like i'd remember than anyways.

[amal 4]

how would you feel if some faith decided to make it their church doctrine that upon conception you are hindu? or christian? or even a druid? would you not feel that your religion is marginalized/ignored/downplayed by that doctrine?

I would first have to care what other faiths teach

i'll just have to make one then and see what you have to say then

everyone must have pizza on friday will be a tenant in this religion

so, if i love pizza, does that automatically make me a follower of your religion?

pay no attention to the charlie behind the screen!

yes, you will automatically be a follower

Now that's a religion I can swallow!

Ahahahahahahaha

you're on a roll today ain't ya?

It would not bother me in the least. I would definitely research that religion and see why they are claiming that and if they have a way to justify it, then all power to them because everybody is allowed to believe what their hearts choose to believe.

And being a Christian for 27 years you can practice Christianity and be Christian but will not enter Heaven if you are not Baptised. (now that is only in my denomination..I can't speak for other denominations) Therefore, leaving me with the PERSONAL opinion that you are not "technically" Christian at birth. You are Christian when your family either takes you to church or teaches you about Christianity. There is not a ceremony to be "Islamic" (yes I'm going to say it again) since the definition of Islam is the Submission of the will of God. I'm not saying that each person is Muslim..I'm saying they are under Islam until they are taught otherwise. (at least this is the whole meaning behind "revert" that they are trying to get accross to you) I hope this explains it better. If you have any more questions, please do not hesitate to ask

given that the catholic church doctrine holds that life begins at conception (that's conception not contraception vp and jenn so don't get excited) i suppose some faith could quite easily incorporate that idea into their doctrine. it makes about as much sense as one being a muslim when born, at least to me.

not all christian religions require baptism btw. as for whether i was baptized or not i have no idea. not like i'd remember than anyways.

yeah, the catholics are right, LIFE begins at conception (but not Catholicism) You still have to become Catholic..that's why they do their cristening when their children are infants.......As far as Islam, do you agree with at least the definitive term and understand what I'm getting at..as far as being born (definitively) under Islam???

[Mrs. Forgetful 2]

Mabrook to the new sisters!

Ok...I hope no one takes this the wrong way but I gotta comment...ok here goes...

I know Amal has been married to husband for awhile and has been exposed to Muslims and I'm assuming has learned a lot from her husband. Doodle on the other hand doesn't have a lot of exposure to Islam so I'm concerned about the intentions of the reversion. Islam is a religion AND a lifestyle. Not something to be taken lightly and done out of convenience. This is a life long commitment. I'm not trying to say that Doodle is not serious about Islam, please don't get me wrong. I just want to remind not only her but everyone considering a reversion that this isn't something to be rushed into and taken lightly. This is not something you do to make a man or anyone else happy. This is something you do for Allah. Again..I in NO way am trying to offend or hurt anyone by what I'm saying.

Ok you ladies are confusing me here...can we start using the word "revert"

Thank you for your concern but I don't think that my reversion is any less or more than someone who has studied furiously about it for years. I have been studying Islam for about 3 months now and Rhama has taught me a lot. I met with a sister here in Boston at lunch this past weekend and told her my concerns (basically that I won't be able to be "perfect" i.e. memorize the prayers, immediately cover my head, etc.) and something she said to me rang home........"your time could come tonight. You don't have to be perfect to be a muslim."

I had resolved my theological doubts, i.e. Jesus not being God, yet a prophet, etc. about a month ago after a LOT of reading and talking to people.

Anyway I am proud to be a muslimah and I am steadfast in my resolve to learn more and more each day but I know that saying my prayers each day gives me strength to grow to be better and better at it every single day.

My one stumbling block is covering my head but insha Allah I will get over that in due time. Babysteps is what I am doing now with the help of some wonderful people.

Doodle,

I think it's great you listened to the sister you met with. She is a wise woman. That was one of my biggest concerns when I was fighting the battle of reverting/converting to Islam. Of course it's going to take a long time to memorize the prayers, and read the Qu'ran in Arabic, but Allah sees all the effort you put into learning. That's what counts! My husband knows about my fight with hijab. I read books about it, yet I still haven't been able to grasp the whole thing. I know it states in the Quran to cover your modesty, but does it necessarily mean all the time or just during prayer? My husband tells me all the time that hijab doesn't make one a muslim, it's your heart and your beliefs, it's also between you and Allah and he knows your intentions.

I hope you continue to learn more about Islam and that your faith strengthens. Just dive head first into Islam is my suggestion! You'll be blown away!

May Allah bless you and yours!

Janine

[ya falaha! 0]

I agree, Mrs. F. Only Allah knows what's in our hearts and minds and what our true intentions are. Hijab is a personal choice..yes it's fard but I believe it's a personal choice. A piece of cloth on your head does not define how you practice your Islam.

Good luck to you, doodle, in your studies and mabrook on your reversion. Will you be raising your girls in Islam? I wish you all the best inshallah.

[amal 4]

and also remember that there are countries where the woman has the right to choose if she wants to wear hijab or not...in Jordan, my husbands sisters don't wear them, but his mother does...his sister in law wears hers but her kids don't....it's all their choice....right now, i'm not wearing one ..maybe one of these days I will but its too soon for me to change everything at once.......SMALL STEPS IS KEY

[ya falaha! 0]

Baby steps are key IMO. If you do too much all at once you can get burned out and frustrated. I did that in the beginning. I got confused as to what was right or wrong or fard or whatever. I got confused about what was Sunnah or Hadith. I had to slow down and make my own way. Now I feel comfortable and at peace in my Islam alhamdulillah.

[doodlebug 3]

I agree, Mrs. F. Only Allah knows what's in our hearts and minds and what our true intentions are. Hijab is a personal choice..yes it's fard but I believe it's a personal choice. A piece of cloth on your head does not define how you practice your Islam.

Good luck to you, doodle, in your studies and mabrook on your reversion. Will you be raising your girls in Islam? I wish you all the best inshallah.

Well my daughters have already been raised as Catholics. All I can really do is be a power of example to them since they are old enough to have a say in things. Their dad also has a big part to play in whether or not they are Catholic, Muslim, Hindu, etc. and this is a discussion that will probably go back and forth for a while between he and I.

They see me pray, they know that mommy is a Muslim and they know that they can ask me at anytime, and they have been doing so. Babysteps...

Any children that Usama and I have though will most definitely be raised Muslim.

[amal 4]

alhamdulilah! I'm glad to hear that Moody.... Enshallah my transition will be smoothe

oh and VP I understood ya no worries