USCIS have FINALLY Publicized their VWP Policy

[k84 11]

Really, not even if you have been married for ten years, have a child together, and your wife is about to give birth to your second child?

If you've been married for 10 years and don't have LPR status in the US, then you must have it somewhere else. If you have been living here for 10 years without LPR status well then that's a whole other issue.

No one coming in on the VWP should be allowed to adjust status. Simple as that. If you come in through VWP, you're a tourist. You visit people and places, enjoy this great country, and then you leave and go home within 90 days (or whatever your permitted time limit is). If you stay longer than your permitted time, then you broke the law and aren't entitled to anything as far as I'm concerned.

If you want to become a LPR, then apply for it properly. Don't try and cheat the system.

I really don't understand people today. Some people feel they're entitled to everything without wanting to follow the correct procedures to get it.

Life is not THAT black and white, you know?

No one is more important than anyone else. We should all have to follow the same immigration rules. Not one rule for some and different for others because someone's particular case might seem more important than someone else's case.

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand that separating a couple is extremely hard on the couple, but most of us who came here in a K visa had to do exactly that. We had no choice. Why should people who cheat the system get to stay here while those of us who did it properly had to stay away and wait for approval? One rule for everyone.

Edited April 12, 2011 by k84

[Myopia 93]

If you've been married for 10 years and don't have LPR status in the US, then you must have it somewhere else. If you have been living here for 10 years without LPR status well then that's a whole other issue.

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand that separating a couple is extremely hard on the couple, but most of us who came here in a K visa had to do exactly that. We had no choice. Why should people who cheat the system get to stay here while those of us who did it properly had to stay away and wait for approval? One rule for everyone.

It is not cheating the system if there is no intent. I am going to keep banging that point over and over. Not everyone comes to the US with a notion that residency here is akin to owning the golden fleece. There are umpteen reasons that someone could overstay. Umpteen reasons why someone would not have got on that plane back to their own country. Not everyone comes to the Us with a spouse in mind and a plan in hand.

I dont even get these attitudes because adjusting is allowed in most western countries. Even in Australia.

The old adage of " line jumpers" doesn't even fit in these situations because spouses of a US citizen have an immediate number available.

When you file the K1, it goes through a whole other process to someone who adjusts off the VWP. The only way that there is some comparison in timelines is when the VWP and K1's go through the AOS process in the USA. ALL VWP adjustments have an interview. The same can not be said for K1's.

I really find these comments interesting.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Myopia

[wshc 46]

No one is more important than anyone else. We should all have to follow the same immigration rules. Not one rule for some and different for others because someone's particular case might seem more important than someone else's case.

The entire immigration system is broken and is a mess. Millions of illegals are coming in over the southern border and no one cares because they use them as pawns for whatever reason, either as cheap labor or future voters.

If USCIS made no mistakes and they had the best interest of my wife and I at heart and weren't just interested in seeing how great a pension they will have after 15 years of service or at age 55 whichever comes first, then one could trust that everything they did was right and we could put our faith in them to treat us fairly then everything you say would be true. Otherwise -

Get off your high horse, the world is not fair. This is a break that people need to (as the libs love to say), level out the playing field somewhat. In our ordeal we were screwed big time by USCIS, CBP, DHS and by my own mistakes based on the information dweeb at an infopass appointment that didn't give us the exactly correct information. When we moved to the US we didn't have time to become immigration experts and why should anyone have to get a lawyer just to bring my wife of 27 years to the states, who has already had a green card and has lived in the states for so long. Quick check on the USCIS web page and the WVP looks good. We can move to the states then apply to renew the green card is what we thought. Problem, it didn't work like that and USCIS has no discretion to do anything about our situation. (My wife was returned to her home country at POE for VWP overstay although our i-90 was still processing.) Really FU situation where there was no intent by us to be fraudulent and I believe that USCIS had no evil intent, they are just stupid. So where did things go wrong? A non-human black and white system is the problem. One that is so often endorsed here unfortunately.

So this is a good ruling that might help someone some day in the same boat as us, even if it won't help us this time.

[k84 11]

It is not cheating the system if there is no intent.

Maybe so, but in most cases there is no way to prove intent or not. It's easy to say "well I came here and this happened" with no real proof required. Anyone can say that.

I'm the type of person who believes in innocent until proven guilty, so I agree with you that not everyone who comes here is trying to cheat. All I'm saying is that being able to adjust status from any tourist-only visa/program shouldn't be allowed. It makes a mockery of every other visa in my opinion.

I dont even get these attitudes because adjusting is allowed in most western countries. Even in Australia.

I'll be honest in saying I didn't know that. It's scary if we allow tourists a path to become a LPR.

There are umpteen reasons that someone could overstay.

Of course, life is full of unexpected surprises but overstaying a visa is a very serious issue. You don't want to promote that kind of activity or else everyone will do it, and it's hard to catch them in this country because local police have no authority to ask for proof of status.

There are few mitigating circumstances where overstaying could be acceptable (seriously injury or illness, etc) but for almost everything else there really is no excuse.

Regardless of the reason, overstaying is breaking the law and it's really not good to start a new life as a criminal. Sure it is a victimless crime, but it's a crime regardless.

ALL VWP adjustments have an interview. The same can not be said for K1's.

All K-1s have an interview at the consulate/embassy before their visa is given to them. There's no interview needed to enter through the VWP.

I do think everyone (including K-1s) should be interviewed for AOS because that is one of the most important applications we submit, but at least K-1s have already had an interview before that point.

[BMW4me 12]

Ok so this really doesn't apply to me but I believe this is a mistake and VWPs shouldn't be allowed to adjust status, period.

Why? coz like many have said you are a tourist you came here with a special program and you don't even own a visa, visit the country and go back. On that notion a B1/B2 tourist visas shouldn't be allowed to adjust status too, they are too are tourists.

It shouldn't/doesn't matter if you had intent or not, it shouldn't be allowed.

On the other hand work and student visa should be able to adjust, now i am not saying this coz i am an F1 but because...

an F1 student or an individual holding an H1B is living here for many years. A student roughly lives in the States for 4 years. Learning the cultures etc.etc. his/her mind adjusting to the country... same goes for an H1B person, they can carry it for 6 consecutive years... so adjusting from student and work visas MAKES SENSE.

But allowing a VWP or B1/B2 to adjust status is just doesn't make any sense. and even should be considered fraud/illegal from the start. Like i said before, so called `intent` is irrelavent. You can't have a sudden change of hearts once you are in the country! `Oh i guess i like it here i am gonna stay...`. No no this is just wrong, what's worse is it is not FAIR to those on IR1/CR1.

but you know what guys... yes current system doesn't MAKE SENSE but since it is approved, I think we should all shxx the hell up, including me

[k84 11]

Really FU situation where there was no intent by us to be fraudulent and I believe that USCIS had no evil intent, they are just stupid. So where did things go wrong? A non-human black and white system is the problem. One that is so often endorsed here unfortunately.

I fully agree the system is a mess. I was just as clueless as everyone else was when we all started on our life changing move, but it's much easier with great resources like VisaJourney out there to help. Granted this site, and others like it, weren't always around so past mistakes have already been made.

I'm sorry your situation has turned out to be so horrible and I do hope everything is sorted out soon and you can get your life back to normal. I'm not saying what I have said to hurt you or anyone else who is trying to move or bring someone here legally, but the rules are needed to keep those with bad intentions from abusing the system. It's already easy enough for them to do that, we don't need to make it any easier.

[wshc 46]

I agree with you that sticking to the law is best way, but this system has to change to be truly fair. Remember that under WVP there is not even a right to appeal. We never had a chance to put our case up to anybody. Our congressman only told us to get a lawyer. The lawyer told us just to wait. No body cares about people doing it legally.

thanks for the good wishes and best of luck to everyone swiming through this mess.

[katiemanny 64]

As I said before K1/K3, CR1/IR1, will become meaningless one day for VWP countries, why go the legal route when its fine to enter the US without a visa and overstay and become LPR once marry to a US Citizen, what gives.

Let just pray USCIS will ever have to use our tax money, cause I would be the first one to explode if that ever happen.

Edited April 12, 2011 by katiemanny

[mof 15]

If you've been married for 10 years and don't have LPR status in the US, then you must have it somewhere else. If you have been living here for 10 years without LPR status well then that's a whole other issue.

No one coming in on the VWP should be allowed to adjust status. Simple as that. If you come in through VWP, you're a tourist. You visit people and places, enjoy this great country, and then you leave and go home within 90 days (or whatever your permitted time limit is). If you stay longer than your permitted time, then you broke the law and aren't entitled to anything as far as I'm concerned.

If you want to become a LPR, then apply for it properly. Don't try and cheat the system.

I really don't understand people today. Some people feel they're entitled to everything without wanting to follow the correct procedures to get it.

No one is more important than anyone else. We should all have to follow the same immigration rules. Not one rule for some and different for others because someone's particular case might seem more important than someone else's case.

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand that separating a couple is extremely hard on the couple, but most of us who came here in a K visa had to do exactly that. We had no choice. Why should people who cheat the system get to stay here while those of us who did it properly had to stay away and wait for approval? One rule for everyone.

Like I said, life is not that black and white. You are wrong, neither of us has LPR anywhere else that would allow us to stay together as a family. In fact, we have not lived anywhere else in ten years (oh, I know it's mind-boggling) - hence, there is no place to file for consular processing. We do not qualify. No one is trying to cheat the system - some circumstances do not allow for any other way. Unless you think that tearing apart a functioning family with children is appropriate for the sake of bureaucracy.

[Myopia 93]

Maybe so, but in most cases there is no way to prove intent or not. It's easy to say "well I came here and this happened" with no real proof required. Anyone can say that.

I do think everyone (including K-1s) should be interviewed for AOS because that is one of the most important applications we submit, but at least K-1s have already had an interview before that point.

I get all your points. I do. I want you to know that I'm not this gleeful person who doesn't understand other peoples opinions. I do. I hear similar types of opinions from my family members in the Uk who are livid at the Immigration process in the Uk and absolutely detest the types of immigrants that can live and work in the UK. I don't share their view because I believe in a global community.

The thing is the VWP is an allowance than is made for the ease of travel for citizens of certain countries and until one or more get kicked off the program for whatever reasons, the VWP is always the easiest way for short term travel to the US. It is a privilege and I am glad that it is available for my relatives who can use it to visit me and the US. Its a privilege that they believe that they deserve as British citizens.

Overstaying is a crime just as driving without a license is a crime and burning the american flag is a crime. The fact that it is a crime that is forgiven on marriage to a spouse is a sign that this is a crime that can be squashed just by spending $1500. If every squashing of every crime was so easy! :innocent

Ps. I think only a fool would promote overstaying. You don't get to go to your country whilst out of status. That is not easy.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Myopia

[JeroenAndMichelle 28]

Like I said, life is not that black and white.

I'm sorry to say but for the sanity of rules, laws and all that to work, sometimes life has to be black and white... It's not fair, I know, but sometimes it's the right thing.

[Myopia 93]

Ok so this really doesn't apply to me but I believe this is a mistake and VWPs shouldn't be allowed to adjust status, period.

Why? coz like many have said you are a tourist you came here with a special program and you don't even own a visa, visit the country and go back. On that notion a B1/B2 tourist visas shouldn't be allowed to adjust status too, they are too are tourists.

It shouldn't/doesn't matter if you had intent or not, it shouldn't be allowed.

On the other hand work and student visa should be able to adjust, now i am not saying this coz i am an F1 but because...

an F1 student or an individual holding an H1B is living here for many years. A student roughly lives in the States for 4 years. Learning the cultures etc.etc. his/her mind adjusting to the country... same goes for an H1B person, they can carry it for 6 consecutive years... so adjusting from student and work visas MAKES SENSE.

But allowing a VWP or B1/B2 to adjust status is just doesn't make any sense. and even should be considered fraud/illegal from the start. Like i said before, so called `intent` is irrelavent. You can't have a sudden change of hearts once you are in the country! `Oh i guess i like it here i am gonna stay...`. No no this is just wrong, what's worse is it is not FAIR to those on IR1/CR1.

but you know what guys... yes current system doesn't MAKE SENSE but since it is approved, I think we should all shxx the hell up, including me

Why should an F1 be able to adjust any more than a B1/B2/VWP?

The F1 comes to the US to study but 9 times out of 10 meets a USC and gets married. How is that fair to those that come from more educated nations who don't need the F1 as badly as those from those less developed countries? The F1 has been used as a way to meet and marry a spouse, that is common knowledge.

How many posts have I read from F1 holders who say that they dropped out of school etc and want to adjust. I guess school wasn't as important as finding a way to get into the US and money talks. If the US government see that you have money to pay for your education (that stimulates the economy in a way) then you are more likely to get that visa as opposed to a regular B1.

Why shouldn't an F1 have to go back to their country and start the process as a CR1?

If you want to deny the adjustment for those others then I think F1's too.

The only legitimate adjusters in this case would be K1 or H1b holders (As after all, if you slog your guts out for umpteen years you should be able to get some social security at the end of it!)

Edited April 12, 2011 by Myopia

[mof 15]

I'm sorry to say but for the sanity of rules, laws and all that to work, sometimes life has to be black and white... It's not fair, I know, but sometimes it's the right thing.

Even laws - and in this case, immigration laws - recognize that the blind application of law without regard for circumstance cannot be just. The purpose of family-based AOS is to promote the unity of family. It would negate the entire purpose of such laws if the pursuit of family unity involved first breaking up a family and bestowing children with undue and undeserved hardship. There are several parameters that need to be met - as established by law.

If you happen to not like this stance, then apply your own rule: Sometimes, life is not fair.

[BMW4me 12]

Why should an F1 be able to adjust any more than a B1/B2/VWP?

The F1 comes to the US to study but 9 times out of 10 meets a USC and gets married. How is that fair to those that come from more educated nations who don't need the F1 as badly as those from those less developed countries? The F1 has been used as a way to meet and marry a spouse, that is common knowledge.

How many posts have I read from F1 holders who say that they dropped out of school etc and want to adjust. I guess school wasn't as important as finding a way to get into the US and money talks. If the US government see that you have money to pay for your education (that stimulates the economy in a way) then you are more likely to get that visa as opposed to a regular B1.

Why shouldn't an F1 have to go back to their country and start the process as a CR1?

If you want to deny the adjustment for those others then I think F1's too.

The only legitimate adjusters in this case would be K1 or H1b holders (As after all, if you slog your guts out for umpteen years you should be able to get some social security at the end of it!)

don't get me wrong, let's not argue about this since I see you getting upset

now when I said VWP should not be allowed to adjust status while F1 should be I meant the following.

VWP's sole purpose to enable nationals of certain countries to travel to the United States for tourism. (replaces B1/B2).

F1's sole purpose to enable nationals of other countries to pursue an academic program in an institution recognized by US government.

Now as a VWP you are not to stay more than 90 days in most cases some individuals probably leaving the country within 15 days or so coz nobody really can take a 90 days vacation

Now as an F1 student you are granted a non-immigrant visa for the period of your stay (D/S, duration of status), which means you can stay here up to 9 years (states in I-20 form) with a masters education after graduation from an undergrad program. My argument is this; after spending 6-7 years of your life in a country, you should be given the option to stay there indefinitely; (to adjust status). In all those years, you get used to the life here, etc.etc. many other things. But I do NOT see this in a B1/B2 or VWP individual, coz these visas/program do not give you a chance to stay in the country for a long period of time, adjusting of status from those clearly implies that you made your mind long before you arrive here, to stay in this country coz nobody can meet and truly love someone and decide to get marry in 90 days, it's just unrealistic(now please don't attack me here just my general opinion, not directed to you lol ). Lastly this shortcut is really not fair to those who does it the long way, IR1/CR1.

Another point is that F1 is also given to those who comes for english as a second language courses, yes I do agree with you that some people abuses this visa, just come here to work and find a way to get married and apply for adjust of status. but don't you think that this way VWP will be abused lot more? I definitely think so.

also your comment "...from more educated nations who don't need the F1 as badly as those from those less developed..." I surely don't agree with this, now while i am not taking taking this personally, since lol Turkey is well developed but higher education there just wasn't easy for me, gotta pass that university examination and that oooh was isn't easy for me lol. I could go to some private universities but hey prices are the same as American universities almost so I was like what the heck. There are F1s from all over the world, so there you go.

like I said before I am not arguing with you here, hope you see my point there, bottomline is I know how it is to live here without full rights and benefits, so as a fellow March filer hope we'll get it SOON!

Edited April 13, 2011 by vkn & jsb

[Myopia 93]

don't get me wrong, let's not argue about this since I see you getting upset

There is no argument. I understand both sides of the coin and happily for both of our sakes so does the US government.