Conversion as related to visa approval...

[Myopia 93]

We're not sitting with anyone and celebrating their religion or religious beliefs. We are sitting with family and celebrating the opportunity for all of us to be together and enjoy each others' company. One of the best places to participate in charitable giving is within your family. I think this is also true for interfaith dialogue, understanding, and tolerance. We attend their dinners, get togethers, parties, etc just as they attend our Eid celebrations. My husband and I both agree and have no problem with it, and it's what we prefer.

You can call it Islam lite, or whatever other mocking, negative, accusatory phrasing you wish. There's no need to go back and forth about this. You've said what you believe to be helpful. Enough said.

As you like.

[Myopia 93]

re: holidays. We don't celebrate. We don't visit my family at that time. As I've explained to them, for Easter especially, we don't believe Jesus (as) was crucified and raised from the dead, so it would by hypocritical of me to partake in a celebration of that important religious ritual for them. I'm more than happy to spend time with them regularly throughout the year, and make other events important family get togethers (like thanksgiving for example).

And as I'm sure anyone who knows me is aware of, I'm about as far from being a salafi as one can be.

Totally loving this post and you said it much more elegantly than I did. Barak Allahu feeki. You dont have to be salafi to understand that there is a reason that Allah says, "Lakum Deenakum Wa liya Deen".

[sandinista! 1,816]

The hadeeth is not daeef. The scholars have said that it is saheeh. Shaykh Al Albaani classified it as hasan. Where is it quoted as being weak?

Just to give you some clarification from the classic scholars ,

"Al-Manaawee said in his explanation of this hadeeth, “That is because the greatest trial that takes a significant toll on a person's deen are the desires of the stomach and the desires of the private parts, and a righteous woman safeguards a man from zinaa, which accounts for the first half. Hence, the second half remains and that is the desires of the stomach. Thus he () advised him with taqwaa so he can perfect his deen and obtain istiqaamah.” He also said, He specifically mentioned a righteous wife because a woman who is otherwise may safeguard her husband from zinaa, however she would make him bend his back over trying to obtain worthless things from that which is haraam.” (Al-Faydul-Qadeer: hadeeth nos. 8704)

Additionally "Al-Bayhaqi narrated in Shu’ab al-Eemaan from al-Raqaashi: “When a person gets married he has completed half of his religion, so let him fear Allaah with regard to the other half.” Al-Albaani said of these two hadeeths in Saheeh al-Targheeb wa’l-Tarheeb (1916): “(They are) hasan li ghayrihi.”

I should have said marriage perfects the Deen and completes half.

Bark Allahu Feek for the correction.

see post 51

[sandinista! 1,816]

I guess you really did not read my posts at all. Did you read the one where I said no one can be kicked out of Islam for not wearing hijab? What about when I mentioned the Prophet marrying Juwayriyah as a proof that marrying a non muslim is fine in Islam?

I don't know her background, to be honest, I could care less about her background but she made some valid points. I know a lot of sisters who become muslims for their husbands and leave the deen as soon as they get divorced. I know loads of sisters who got burned by MENA men too. Obviously being muslim and being around many sisters, these stories are common.

I responded based on what I read. I was not antagonistic. I mentioned in one post that celebrating those religious festivals was not from Islam. I have zero intention of sugar coating the haq to appease sensitivities.

Sorry.

using the haq as a weapon, to self-promote your own righteousness, and bludgeon those who you think fall short of it, is as offensive as any misguided sugar coating. and while my approach may suck just as badly, i'm at least self-aware.

[Myopia 93]

using the haq as a weapon, to self-promote your own righteousness, and bludgeon those who you think fall short of it, is as offensive as any misguided sugar coating. and while my approach may suck just as badly, i'm at least self-aware.

Why bother respond or comment when you have no desire to read what I wrote. Self rightousness? Alhamdulillah that has never been something that I suffer from.

When you say you believe in Allah and His Messenger, you are testifying with ikhlass that you want to follow this way of life. To pick and choose which part of Islam you want to follow and then justify it is hypocritical in my view and dangerous when it comes to the ahkira wa Allahu Musta'an.Honestly I am concerned with myself. I can sit here and quote ayats from the Quran to support my position but I would assume you would see that as self promotion.

Im just a simple Amatullah trying to get to Jannah.Khalass!

Edited April 25, 2011 by Myopia

[Sofiyya 1,687]

O, the drama and pathos! (as usual)

I was born into an immigrant Muslim family, I love my deen and have practiced all of my life. I formally studied with scholars in Morocco, Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon, eventually receiving a Masters and Ph.D in Islamic law and history, and working as a human rights advocate with scholars and Islamic law attorneys in the Middle East and North Africa. I and continue to learn to this day.

What I have learned from study and experience is that there is a great deal of nonsense in what is taught to the ummah and much of it is based on regional cultural norms, not on Islam. For example, the idea that hijab is fard. Hijab is never mentioned in the Quran as clothing. There is nothing commanding women to cover their hair. There is a 250 year gap between the death of the Prophet (pbuh) and the fiqh determination that Allah commands women to conceal their hair. That doesn't create a mandate. Wear it if you believe it to be required of you, but to judge other women for not wearing it as less devout is a negative toward you more than it is on them.

On the subject of Muslimas marrying non-Muslims, the prohibition is from fiqh, not from Sharia. There is also nothing in the Quran denying such marriages to women. There is also nothing in the practice of the Prophet that limited Muslim women to marriage with non-Muslim men, In fact, there were several women who converted to Islam and remained married to men who did not convert for as many as 20 years later. The Prophet never forced any of them to convert or to divorce. Besides, it is not the norm in Islamic law that a permission for men sets a barrier for women.

The ayah 5:5, commonly noted as an "exception" for men to marry non-Muslims, contains another permission commonly ignored when discussing interfaith marriage: This day (all) the good things are allowed to you; and the food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. The entire ayah is, like most of the Quran, addressed to men, yet, the part about interfaith marriage is precluded to women, but not the part about the food. Curious. The difference in the treatment of the two permissions comes from fiqh, not Sharia.

If 5:5 is what you argue in defense of Muslim men marrying out, then, to be consistant, one also would need to acknowledge the ruling that Muslim men are not permitted to marry kafir women, and are only allowed to marry believing, chaste women of the Book and live with them in a Muslim country, where their dominance will be assured. The very same fiqh methodology used to "prohibit" interfaith marriage to Muslim women has also been applied to set limits in marriage for Muslim men. For some reason, few are interested in enforcing that law and admonishing couples here from engaging in such behavior. In fact, on this board, marriages disapproved by Islam are routinely supported by Muslims (who are apparently as well educated in their own faith as the cupid converts they criticise).

A basic principle of Islamic jurisprudence is the asl al-deen, which states that what Allah makes haraam is always haraam, and what Allah has made halaal is always halaal. That about which Allah is silent is a blessing to us. Allah is silent about Muslim women marrying ahl al kitab men, so any Muslim who prohibits it for all Muslim women is exceeding the limits set by Allah and acting outside of the practice of the Prophet. Neither should be recommended, nor should Muslimas who marry kitabi men be assumed to be any less devoted to their faith than a Muslim man who marries out.

Allah says more than once in His Holy Book that He decides who will follow His Path and who will be lead astray. How anyone comes to Islam is not for us to judge. While converting for marriage may not be the best reason in our minds, Allah is the best of planners and He should not be doubted in such matters.

I know many apostates. They are still alive and well, and no one is interested in killing them. Three of my cousins are apostates who regularly travel to and work in Muslim countries with no harm coming to them. In fact, I know more reformist Muslims who need bodyguards than apostates who are in fear of their lives. The Bible commands death for apostasy, but that punishment certainly isn't commonly the result. The same is true in the Muslim world. Not to say that there is no consequence, but death is rarely among them except under the most extreme regimes.

Many of the issues in our ummah would be alleviated by establishing a sharp division between what is about Islam and what is about regional and cultural interpretations of Islam. While the concept of mashlaha applied to fiqh allows scholars to prohibit or permit something that may NOT have been permitted or prohibited by Sharia, their local decisions are not binding on those who are not in their jurisdiction any more than the Saudi prohibition against women driving applies to all Muslim women around the world.

In conclusion, while I agree that there is some credible skepticism to be had about conversions during the immigration process and the level of awareness among the converts (anyone who has been here long enough knows my views on that), the bottom line is, it happens, and will continue to happen, as will apostasy. That is beyond our control. What is under our control is the proper guidance, through study and knowledge, of those who wish to learn more about Islam, its limitations, its requirements and the freedoms and blessings it endows to those who willfully embrace it. With few exceptions, it is difficult to do that if the impression you leave of the faith and its adherents is a poor one.

As far as conversion as a red flag at the USCIS/US Consulates, we weren't even asked, so I have no idea.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Sofiyya

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I apologize for my typos. I was editing a lot on a tiny screen.

[maimouna 21]

Salamu Aleikum Sister Sofiyaa,

Disclosure: I wear the hijab( muslim headcovering)

Do you believe in authenticated hadith when it comes to your practice of Islam?

I know that their is a lot of "opinions" when it comes to this ayat:

24:31 "And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands.." even though the word khimar means veil or headcovering in arabic but if you do believe in authenticated hadith then this:

"Ayesha ® reported that Asma’ the daughter of Abu Bakr ® came to the Messenger of Allah (s) while wearing thin clothing. He approached her and said: 'O Asma’! When a girl reaches the menstrual age, it is not proper that anything should remain exposed except this and this. He pointed to the face and hands." [Abu Dawud] is proof that the fact that women in Islam believe that hijab is fard does not stem from cultural beliefs or practice but their belief in Sunnah.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Thank you, sister, aleikum salaam. I am aware of ahadith and their place as a complement to the Quran. The ayah you cite encourages modesty, but not specifically headcovering. The Hadith you offered is popular, but is known to be weak with a broken chain of transmission. The belief that a woman's head must be covered is interpreted by scholars, not directed by Allah. Please, no one should misread my words as discouraging the practice. That should be left to one's discretion. Ironically, while no direct command is found in the Sharia, the Bible is not so ambiguous. Paul, in Corinthians, admonishes women to cover their hair before men, as men are the glory of God.

[Staashi 371]

Sofiyya, it is funny that you bring up St. Paul, because I always say that when Christians complain about hijab, they should look at the Blessed Mother Mary. She is the ultimate example of a veiled woman, and she is the guide for many women in Spain and Latin American countries that still cover while in church. I myself do not, but my girlfriend wouldn't be caught dead in church, chapel, or confession without her mantilla. It is our choice, as it was given a dispensation during Vatican II.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

PS - I failed to note that khimar did not connote a veil as a piece of cloth during the time of the Prophet (pbuh). It was merely a cloth used by men and women as protection from the elements and to carry goods. The connotation as a head veil was added at the time headcovering was determined to be required through fiqh.

One must keep in mind that absolutes in fiqh are selectively applied. Few Muslims observe every fiqh ruling issued by their madhab, or even those that constitute a "consensus" of scholars. Headcovering is one that no one is allowed to ignore, but that still is no reason to pronounce it fard. Allah expects us to question, as did the Prophet and the early imams, who instructed us to consider their opinions (fiqh is opinion) and determine if their answers are correct or not.

We are told by Allah that believing men and women are spiritually equal, yet Muslims are not satisfied with this. Women are expected to be the vessels of tradition, unchanging and culturally steadfast. This is not expected of Muslim men, who often refer to the practice of the female mahram as the barometer of their own practice, as if individual practice is collective. The autonomy and humanity of women expressed by God doesn't require women to be that vessel or anyone's practice gauge. We all practice to the best of our ability because perfection belongs only to God.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

There are ideas found in fiqh, ahadith and tafsir that are Biblical rather than Quranic. For example, there are Muslims who teach that women were made from Adam's rib, but that is actually a contradiction of Islamic thought, as is the idea of original sin, but there are those who swear there are credible sources that command both as Islamic. And, I do know Muslimas who explain their hijab to non-Muslims as following the example of the Virgin Mary. That is a genius way of cutting through the differences to bring out valid similarities and our shared veneration of Biblical figures.

Sofiyya, it is funny that you bring up St. Paul, because I always say that when Christians complain about hijab, they should look at the Blessed Mother Mary. She is the ultimate example of a veiled woman, and she is the guide for many women in Spain and Latin American countries that still cover while in church. I myself do not, but my girlfriend wouldn't be caught dead in church, chapel, or confession without her mantilla. It is our choice, as it was given a dispensation during Vatican II.

[Zee Bee 61]

How did I just get to this thread ?

[Staashi 371]

There are ideas found in fiqh, ahadith and tafsir that are Biblical rather than Quranic. For example, there are Muslims who teach that women were made from Adam's rib, but that is actually a contradiction of Islamic thought, as is the idea of original sin, but there are those who swear there are credible sources that command both as Islamic. And, I do know Muslimas who explain their hijab to non-Muslims as following the example of the Virgin Mary. That is a genius way of cutting through the differences to bring out valid similarities and our shared veneration of Biblical figures.

Actually, the Quran has lots of information on Mary.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Actually, the Quran has lots of information on Mary.

Yes, Mary is the only woman named in the Quran, but how many Christians know that or that Muslims honor her son as a great prophet of God who will return on the Day of Judgement? Not so many, especially those who have scant interaction with Muslims.