Conversion as related to visa approval...

[msheesha 548]

Actually I am a bit offended and my conversion was far from a "cupid conversion". I don't doubt that this exists, in fact even in our tiny little masjid here I've seen women come in "looking for husbands". That being said I was raised in a very Lutheran home, my mom still leads children ministry at her church. I am incredibly well educated and I made the choice to convert. Without having traveled to Morocco (before meeting my husband) and being exposed to a "real" Islamic environment and not the Islam of western media would I have converted, probably not. But I also wouldn't have stayed in the church. Personally there were too many inconsistencies in Christianity. That being said I don't think that being Muslim all of the sudden means all these drastic huge changes. I know that had I married an anglo-Christian, I would have been dressing more conservatively as a married woman. I wouldn't have been out boozing it up etc. My husband is very religious and we agree that we live in this country. We will not isolate our children from the larger American culture or my family. We participate in all holidays with my family in our own way.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this issue isn't black and white. Yes you're right there are women who convert to make a man happy but IMO they haven't really converted they are just "keeping up appearances". Truly converted happens in your heart and intentions. And Islam isn't any harder than you chose to make it.

I agree. I converted years ago, unrelated to any man or any relationship. I think the offense is taken because of HIT's overall negativity, assumptions, and mocking of women in MENA relationships. We also spend time with my family on all holidays because we feel that is the respectful, family oriented thing to do, and I don't feel that there is anything about Islam that would prohibit being respectful and family oriented.

[msheesha 548]

I dont think the majority of those that revert especially to marry mena men really really understand what they are doing. I think there is alot of half hearted stuff going on and frankly if most really reverted, its because they didnt have a deeply based christian belief to begin with. I love muslims and have spent alot of time around Islam but I dont like agree with hijab and honestly, most of what I dont like is the cultural interpretation of islam and not islam itself. I also dont think many even understand that once you take shihada, that apostasy is punishable by death in several hadiths and frankly I think if most knew that they couldnt easily leave a religion, they wouldnt revert or convert to it. Couple that with complete intolerance for churches and christian beliefs in several mena countries, I doubt most reverting even really understand on a deeper level what it means to be a muslim and the lifetime commitment it is. You cant just switch back.. oh excuse me, you CAN in the United States where sharia law isnt enforced. Leaving islam is not allowed and talking about christianity is punishable by jail time in several mena countries. I doubt that most reverts really even contemplate all of this. They think... oh yes Jesus is a prophet and I am not a really strong christian to begin with so I can relegate Jesus to the prophet status because I really dont like church anyway. But to completely toss a lifetime of belief systems in a short time? I think they are cupid conversions and nothing more, not really thought out nor adhered to after the relationship goes south unless of course, they start another mena relationship with another muslim. In the end, without the support system of their American friends and family, they will be floating aimlessly. With a very low percentage of these relationships lasting , the best piece of advice is to keep your american family close and family close because you will need them later after your youth fades and this adventure ends.. and you are back with the people of your youth and heritage..

Speaking of yourself?

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Actually I am a bit offended and my conversion was far from a "cupid conversion". I don't doubt that this exists, in fact even in our tiny little masjid here I've seen women come in "looking for husbands". That being said I was raised in a very Lutheran home, my mom still leads children ministry at her church. I am incredibly well educated and I made the choice to convert. Without having traveled to Morocco (before meeting my husband) and being exposed to a "real" Islamic environment and not the Islam of western media would I have converted, probably not. But I also wouldn't have stayed in the church. Personally there were too many inconsistencies in Christianity. That being said I don't think that being Muslim all of the sudden means all these drastic huge changes. I know that had I married an anglo-Christian, I would have been dressing more conservatively as a married woman. I wouldn't have been out boozing it up etc. My husband is very religious and we agree that we live in this country. We will not isolate our children from the larger American culture or my family. We participate in all holidays with my family in our own way.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this issue isn't black and white. Yes you're right there are women who convert to make a man happy but IMO they haven't really converted they are just "keeping up appearances". Truly converted happens in your heart and intentions. And Islam isn't any harder than you chose to make it.

I think that you hit the nail on the head. This has nothing to do with muslim men. They have a right to marry someone who is lawfully converted or reverted to Islam and did it for the right reasons. Not halfheartedly because it isnt fair to either person. The reason that women are coming in looking for husbands is because they feel that they wont find a western man to commit for any number of reasons and maybe they are right. I just think that religion needs to be something thought through and not done for the wrong reasons

I agree. I converted years ago, unrelated to any man or any relationship. I think the offense is taken because of HIT's overall negativity, assumptions, and mocking of women in MENA relationships. We also spend time with my family on all holidays because we feel that is the respectful, family oriented thing to do, and I don't feel that there is anything about Islam that would prohibit being respectful and family oriented.

There are women here that follow islam and really did it for the right reasons and honestly its no ones place to judge why people revert. Its a lifetime choice and there needs to be a little more thought to it than alot of people put into it because the religion may just very well outlast the relationship

[msheesha 548]

So, HIT, are you saying your conversion or reversion to Islam was a "cupid conversion" ? Are you not Muslim anymore? Your bitterness toward MENA men is getting a little old, in my opinion. This is not the place to express your views in this manner. Maybe a better place would be Daniel Pipes or the like. All of us here have fiances or husbands from the Middle East and North Africa. So please stop trying to save me about my wonderful, loving MENA husband!

Meriem

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Speaking of yourself?

I find myself around people of all religions and I know enough to know that hadiths are important and there is alot more to any religion than doing it to snag a husband. I dont think alot of the people who revert have spent much time studying it

[msheesha 548]

I converted to islam at age 19 which was almost 11 years ago. My faith has gone from very exciting to very rigid to now being settled into a comfortable place. I wear hijab, pray, send my son's to weekend Islamic school, and attend religious holidays and gatherings. I also work and take care of my home and family. I have retirement savings and college funds for both of my boys. We have two cars and we're renters. I yell at my husband in the grocery store because he can never pick the correct chicken stock even though we buy some every week. He carries the groceries inside and I pick them up. We sit down to dinner together. We pray together. We watch TV and go bowling. We go to Disney World every winter with my parents and my mom takes our oldest for two weeks in the summer. We've managed to find a nice balance between our shared religion and our lives in the United States. There's nothing fairytale or cupid about our lives. We both go through periods of strength and weakness in our faith and we always manage to push eachother along. There are a lot of compromises we both make to keep each of our families happy while not giving up our own beliefs.

HIT, I'm sorry for your experiences. It would be nice for you to realize that there are successful stories out there that aren't a disaster waiting to happen. You also have responsibility for your situation. While no one will blame you for what happened, you have to realize that choices you made led you down that road. I hope one day you can let go of all of your bitterness and anger so that you can find a much more peaceful and happy place.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

So, HIT, are you saying your conversion or reversion to Islam was a "cupid conversion" ? Are you not Muslim anymore? Your bitterness toward MENA men is getting a little old, in my opinion. This is not the place to express your views in this manner. Maybe a better place would be Daniel Pipes or the like. All of us here have fiances or husbands from the Middle East and North Africa. So please stop trying to save me about my wonderful, loving MENA husband!

Meriem

I dont think you have any problems as far as changing religions to please someone. You adapted to the culture and religion because you chose it thoughtfully and have embraced it wholly. No one can say if someone cupid converted. Thats between God or Allah and yourself but it does happen and honestly, when alot of these relationships end its very hard on the women because they dont have the support system to help them through it because that support system doesnt exist for alot of these women. I think it has little to do with the men because this is their lifelong choice. Its women choosing a religion on the basis of finding a husband which does happen alot that is wrong.. not people making an educated choice and a lifelong change

[msheesha 548]

I think that you hit the nail on the head. This has nothing to do with muslim men. They have a right to marry someone who is lawfully converted or reverted to Islam and did it for the right reasons. Not halfheartedly because it isnt fair to either person. The reason that women are coming in looking for husbands is because they feel that they wont find a western man to commit for any number of reasons and maybe they are right. I just think that religion needs to be something thought through and not done for the wrong reasons

There are women here that follow islam and really did it for the right reasons and honestly its no ones place to judge why people revert. Its a lifetime choice and there needs to be a little more thought to it than alot of people put into it because the religion may just very well outlast the relationship

The point is you are not the judge of reasons, causes, inspirations, and motivations for people's religious choices.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

The point is you are not the judge of reasons, causes, inspirations, and motivations for people's religious choices.

exactly.. But what is wrong with talking about it? Its happening and its not always healthy for either person involved

[msheesha 548]

Honestly. COnversion in Islam is more than something that occurs in the heart. Islam can be Islam lite if you make it up as you go along and follow what you want to follow but this is not really Islam.

When you say your husband is religious and then say you participate in all holidays...it conflicts for me as a muslim because I know that religious muslims will not take part in those festivals. Allahu Alim.

Judging others' iman and actions really takes away from our own personal jihad. Spending time with one's family is the measure of religiosity?

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I converted to islam at age 19 which was almost 11 years ago. My faith has gone from very exciting to very rigid to now being settled into a comfortable place. I wear hijab, pray, send my son's to weekend Islamic school, and attend religious holidays and gatherings. I also work and take care of my home and family. I have retirement savings and college funds for both of my boys. We have two cars and we're renters. I yell at my husband in the grocery store because he can never pick the correct chicken stock even though we buy some every week. He carries the groceries inside and I pick them up. We sit down to dinner together. We pray together. We watch TV and go bowling. We go to Disney World every winter with my parents and my mom takes our oldest for two weeks in the summer. We've managed to find a nice balance between our shared religion and our lives in the United States. There's nothing fairytale or cupid about our lives. We both go through periods of strength and weakness in our faith and we always manage to push eachother along. There are a lot of compromises we both make to keep each of our families happy while not giving up our own beliefs.

HIT, I'm sorry for your experiences. It would be nice for you to realize that there are successful stories out there that aren't a disaster waiting to happen. You also have responsibility for your situation. While no one will blame you for what happened, you have to realize that choices you made led you down that road. I hope one day you can let go of all of your bitterness and anger so that you can find a much more peaceful and happy place.

Hijab is fard and honestly, its not shocking to me that your marriage is so successful. Hijab is fard aka required by Islam and because you made that step, you completed your deen. I think you completely could agree that there are alot of required things in Islam, tenets that need to be followed and its not a decision that should be made quickly or lightly and needs to be completely understood before undertaken. If its really wanted and something that someone will make a commitment to , then becoming a muslim is the right decision. But making bidda, or innovation to a religion by deciding what you want to do selectively isnt respectful to the religion and its not going to help either person in the long run. There are alot of fard things in Islam and its confusing to the man in my opinion when someone says they have reverted or converted and then pick and choose what part of the religion they want to follow

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I agree. I converted years ago, unrelated to any man or any relationship. I think the offense is taken because of HIT's overall negativity, assumptions, and mocking of women in MENA relationships. We also spend time with my family on all holidays because we feel that is the respectful, family oriented thing to do, and I don't feel that there is anything about Islam that would prohibit being respectful and family oriented.

Your spouse is reasonable but there are people that wont allow their wives or children to even visit family on that day or attend anything in a church...this is a realty to many married to salafi muslims... they are no longer allowed to go anywhere near a church or take their children to one.. some cant even visit with family on that day.

Some are open minded .. but myopia is just reflecting the opinion of some muslims here in the US. Not an uncommon one, especially among salafis..They cant even say happy easter or do egg hunts or even visit on those days

[msheesha 548]

Presuming to know when someone has "completed your deen" is ridiculous.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I think you are spot on. On these forums a lot of the reverts are practicing what I call Islam lite. They do not wear hijab, they dont pray, they have men who smoke and drink and arent really good practicing members of Islam. We have muslim women who are married to non muslims who full well know that in Islam they arent even married so thats how much their faith means to them (why not just leave Islam if you want to live a life that contradicts Islam?) and so on and so forth,

A religious muslim man can marry a woman who is christian or jewish and she will not need to convert.

If they have kids, they must be raised muslim correct? You can marry a christian or a person of the book but children from that marriage must be raised muslim. Its alot different to be in love with someone and not be upset if they dont change their religion to join you but when there are kids coming, a muslim wants muslim kids

[Myopia 93]

... Likewise you are permitted to marry chaste believing women [Muslims] or chaste women among the people who were given the Scripture [Jews and Christians]...

The key word in that ayat is chaste. Ask him what chaste is in Islam. Chaste means the woman does not have sex outside of marriage, she is modest in her dress and demeanor.

The chaste woman is supposed to be religious which is why in the Quran chaste is connected when it comes to muslim women and the Christian or Jewish woman.