Conversion as related to visa approval...

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I dont think most of the people reverting or converting even really understand the religion they are changing to. In my opinion, they may have had a bad experience in church or their longing for love and companionship overrides their dedication to the church they grew up with or there is something else dysfunctional going on and the rigidity of Islam appeals to them. I think if most had to live under sharia law, we would see alot fewer conversion. I think its more cupid conversion than anything else. I have seen a couple of religious reverts on here umm I cant remember her last name who is actively involved in the masjid and really understands what they took on but I dont think most do. I think its especially hard on the women who later get left by the man they converted or excuse me reverted for and its very confusing for the kids, the immediate families and everyone involved. Islam has alot of conditions, hijab is fard and you really cant jump in and out of it and honestly , I dont think most of the reversions I have witnessed over the last 10 years, although they seem sincere at the time, are real. I think most are to please the guy or on a whim, with most of the women I have met knowing very very very little about what they were even going into. Flame if you want, I have been around this neighborhood since December of 2001 and I think most are just for the relationship

I dont think most of the people reverting or converting even really understand the religion they are changing to. In my opinion, they may have had a bad experience in church or their longing for love and companionship overrides their dedication to the church they grew up with or there is something else dysfunctional going on and the rigidity of Islam appeals to them. I think if most had to live under sharia law, we would see alot fewer conversion. I think its more cupid conversion than anything else. I have seen a couple of religious reverts on here umm I cant remember her last name who is actively involved in the masjid and really understands what they took on but I dont think most do. I think its especially hard on the women who later get left by the man they converted or excuse me reverted for and its very confusing for the kids, the immediate families and everyone involved. Islam has alot of conditions, hijab is fard and you really cant jump in and out of it and honestly , I dont think most of the reversions I have witnessed over the last 10 years, although they seem sincere at the time, are real. I think most are to please the guy or on a whim, with most of the women I have met knowing very very very little about what they were even going into. Flame if you want, I have been around this neighborhood since December of 2001 and I think most are just for the relationship

Edited April 24, 2011 by Hanging in there

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I dont think most of the people reverting or converting even really understand the religion they are changing to. In my opinion, they may have had a bad experience in church or their longing for love and companionship overrides their dedication to the church they grew up with or there is something else dysfunctional going on and the rigidity of Islam appeals to them. I think if most had to live under sharia law, we would see alot fewer conversion. I think its more cupid conversion than anything else. I have seen a couple of religious reverts on here umm I cant remember her last name who is actively involved in the masjid and really understands what they took on but I dont think most do. I think its especially hard on the women who later get left by the man they converted or excuse me reverted for and its very confusing for the kids, the immediate families and everyone involved. Islam has alot of conditions, hijab is fard and you really cant jump in and out of it and honestly , I dont think most of the reversions I have witnessed over the last 10 years, although they seem sincere at the time, are real. I think most are to please the guy or on a whim, with most of the women I have met knowing very very very little about what they were even going into. Flame if you want, I have been around this neighborhood since December of 2001 and I think most are just for the relationship

I dont think most of the people reverting or converting even really understand the religion they are changing to. In my opinion, they may have had a bad experience in church or their longing for love and companionship overrides their dedication to the church they grew up with or there is something else dysfunctional going on and the rigidity of Islam appeals to them. I think if most had to live under sharia law, we would see alot fewer conversion. I think its more cupid conversion than anything else. I have seen a couple of religious reverts on here umm I cant remember her last name who is actively involved in the masjid and really understands what they took on but I dont think most do. I think its especially hard on the women who later get left by the man they converted or excuse me reverted for and its very confusing for the kids, the immediate families and everyone involved. Islam has alot of conditions, hijab is fard and you really cant jump in and out of it and honestly , I dont think most of the reversions I have witnessed over the last 10 years, although they seem sincere at the time, are real. I think most are to please the guy or on a whim, with most of the women I have met knowing very very very little about what they were even going into. Flame if you want, I have been around this neighborhood since December of 2001 and I think most are just for the relationship

This is not to offend anyone. Its just my opinion and I have been around the masjids etc for over 10 years. I find most of the reverts really have no clue of what they are getting into, they have no understanding of apostasy, they have been sold some kind of lighter version of whats really involved and the relationships were the fodder to why they went and jumped in to begin with. I have met many who miss their churches, their holidays and traditions, ESPECIALLY when the relationships end after the guys get their papers and then they feel super lost because blood is alot thicker than water and unless you really wanted this and there was no relationship that inspired it, whats left for the American when things go south? The parking lot of the masjid is littered with the broken hearts of women who reverted to please men and not for their own reasons... I feel this very strongly and if you did it for you and you wont leave it when your marriage goes south, then good for you but thats not what I have watched or seen,,

I also feel that if a relgious muslim doesnt insist on the western woman reverting , most likely its just for papers anyway. I dont know a religious muslim who would marry a non muslim anyway, especially if kids are on the way...I think if they are willing to do it, they want a greencard and not much else. Religion is very important to mena men as far as I see.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I dont think most of the people reverting or converting even really understand the religion they are changing to. In my opinion, they may have had a bad experience in church or their longing for love and companionship overrides their dedication to the church they grew up with or there is something else dysfunctional going on and the rigidity of Islam appeals to them. I think if most had to live under sharia law, we would see alot fewer conversion. I think its more cupid conversion than anything else. I have seen a couple of religious reverts on here umm I cant remember her last name who is actively involved in the masjid and really understands what they took on but I dont think most do. I think its especially hard on the women who later get left by the man they converted or excuse me reverted for and its very confusing for the kids, the immediate families and everyone involved. Islam has alot of conditions, hijab is fard and you really cant jump in and out of it and honestly , I dont think most of the reversions I have witnessed over the last 10 years, although they seem sincere at the time, are real. I think most are to please the guy or on a whim, with most of the women I have met knowing very very very little about what they were even going into. Flame if you want, I have been around this neighborhood since December of 2001 and I think most are just for the relationship

I dont think most of the people reverting or converting even really understand the religion they are changing to. In my opinion, they may have had a bad experience in church or their longing for love and companionship overrides their dedication to the church they grew up with or there is something else dysfunctional going on and the rigidity of Islam appeals to them. I think if most had to live under sharia law, we would see alot fewer conversion. I think its more cupid conversion than anything else. I have seen a couple of religious reverts on here umm I cant remember her last name who is actively involved in the masjid and really understands what they took on but I dont think most do. I think its especially hard on the women who later get left by the man they converted or excuse me reverted for and its very confusing for the kids, the immediate families and everyone involved. Islam has alot of conditions, hijab is fard and you really cant jump in and out of it and honestly , I dont think most of the reversions I have witnessed over the last 10 years, although they seem sincere at the time, are real. I think most are to please the guy or on a whim, with most of the women I have met knowing very very very little about what they were even going into. Flame if you want, I have been around this neighborhood since December of 2001 and I think most are just for the relationship

This is not to offend anyone. Its just my opinion and I have been around the masjids etc for over 10 years. I find most of the reverts really have no clue of what they are getting into, they have no understanding of apostasy, they have been sold some kind of lighter version of whats really involved and the relationships were the fodder to why they went and jumped in to begin with. I have met many who miss their churches, their holidays and traditions, ESPECIALLY when the relationships end after the guys get their papers and then they feel super lost because blood is alot thicker than water and unless you really wanted this and there was no relationship that inspired it, whats left for the American when things go south? The parking lot of the masjid is littered with the broken hearts of women who reverted to please men and not for their own reasons... I feel this very strongly and if you did it for you and you wont leave it when your marriage goes south, then good for you but thats not what I have watched or seen,,

I also feel that if a relgious muslim doesnt insist on the western woman reverting , most likely its just for papers anyway. I dont know a religious muslim who would marry a non muslim anyway, especially if kids are on the way...I think if they are willing to do it, they want a greencard and not much else. Religion is very important to mena men as far as I see.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

[

Edited April 24, 2011 by Hanging in there

[Mithra 1,185]

LOL @ cupid conversion. I agree with a good portion of what you wrote, HIT. I do believe many women THINK they're in it for the religion but yeah most are not. The ones who will take offense to your posts, HIT, are the ones that did "cupid conversion". For others (either non religious, non Muslim or truly Muslim) it's not offensive in the least.

[MrsAmera 41]

Actually I am a bit offended and my conversion was far from a "cupid conversion". I don't doubt that this exists, in fact even in our tiny little masjid here I've seen women come in "looking for husbands". That being said I was raised in a very Lutheran home, my mom still leads children ministry at her church. I am incredibly well educated and I made the choice to convert. Without having traveled to Morocco (before meeting my husband) and being exposed to a "real" Islamic environment and not the Islam of western media would I have converted, probably not. But I also wouldn't have stayed in the church. Personally there were too many inconsistencies in Christianity. That being said I don't think that being Muslim all of the sudden means all these drastic huge changes. I know that had I married an anglo-Christian, I would have been dressing more conservatively as a married woman. I wouldn't have been out boozing it up etc. My husband is very religious and we agree that we live in this country. We will not isolate our children from the larger American culture or my family. We participate in all holidays with my family in our own way.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this issue isn't black and white. Yes you're right there are women who convert to make a man happy but IMO they haven't really converted they are just "keeping up appearances". Truly converted happens in your heart and intentions. And Islam isn't any harder than you chose to make it.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Actually I am a bit offended and my conversion was far from a "cupid conversion". I don't doubt that this exists, in fact even in our tiny little masjid here I've seen women come in "looking for husbands". That being said I was raised in a very Lutheran home, my mom still leads children ministry at her church. I am incredibly well educated and I made the choice to convert. Without having traveled to Morocco (before meeting my husband) and being exposed to a "real" Islamic environment and not the Islam of western media would I have converted, probably not. But I also wouldn't have stayed in the church. Personally there were too many inconsistencies in Christianity. That being said I don't think that being Muslim all of the sudden means all these drastic huge changes. I know that had I married an anglo-Christian, I would have been dressing more conservatively as a married woman. I wouldn't have been out boozing it up etc. My husband is very religious and we agree that we live in this country. We will not isolate our children from the larger American culture or my family. We participate in all holidays with my family in our own way.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this issue isn't black and white. Yes you're right there are women who convert to make a man happy but IMO they haven't really converted they are just "keeping up appearances". Truly converted happens in your heart and intentions. And Islam isn't any harder than you chose to make it.

I dont think the majority of those that revert especially to marry mena men really really understand what they are doing. I think there is alot of half hearted stuff going on and frankly if most really reverted, its because they didnt have a deeply based christian belief to begin with. I love muslims and have spent alot of time around Islam but I dont like agree with hijab and honestly, most of what I dont like is the cultural interpretation of islam and not islam itself. I also dont think many even understand that once you take shihada, that apostasy is punishable by death in several hadiths and frankly I think if most knew that they couldnt easily leave a religion, they wouldnt revert or convert to it. Couple that with complete intolerance for churches and christian beliefs in several mena countries, I doubt most reverting even really understand on a deeper level what it means to be a muslim and the lifetime commitment it is. You cant just switch back.. oh excuse me, you CAN in the United States where sharia law isnt enforced. Leaving islam is not allowed and talking about christianity is punishable by jail time in several mena countries. I doubt that most reverts really even contemplate all of this. They think... oh yes Jesus is a prophet and I am not a really strong christian to begin with so I can relegate Jesus to the prophet status because I really dont like church anyway. But to completely toss a lifetime of belief systems in a short time? I think they are cupid conversions and nothing more, not really thought out nor adhered to after the relationship goes south unless of course, they start another mena relationship with another muslim. In the end, without the support system of their American friends and family, they will be floating aimlessly. With a very low percentage of these relationships lasting , the best piece of advice is to keep your american family close and family close because you will need them later after your youth fades and this adventure ends.. and you are back with the people of your youth and heritage..

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

LOL @ cupid conversion. I agree with a good portion of what you wrote, HIT. I do believe many women THINK they're in it for the religion but yeah most are not. The ones who will take offense to your posts, HIT, are the ones that did "cupid conversion". For others (either non religious, non Muslim or truly Muslim) it's not offensive in the least.

I wasnt trying to be offensive. I think alot of the women are lonley, maybe not even really religious in the first place or had a bad experience with church. In the long run, I always encourage people to stay close to their family and friends and even if they want to explore Islam, to do it slowly and methodically because for the most part, most of these women will not stay with the men they marry and its very hard especially if they have kids because the muslim community is really not set up to sunday school them or be a support to them after they get older ( the kids) I think sunday school is very important to kids and their development whether they be christian they go to jewish school or even an islamic school. But these half hearted cupid conversions are bad for all around. They are bad for the mena guy because he thinks he is getting something different than what he is really getting.. a woman who really didnt do it for the right reasons, the woman who is only doing it to either please the guy , get him more interested or make marrying her more palatable and the kids who are usually coming out of divorce to begin with to be thrust head first into a religion that is totally foreign to American society and the fact that most of these guys wont even be around 4 or 5 years later. You have a kid who missed out on normal American activities which yes, church seems to be a big part of the lives of most Americans, a woman who has removed herself from the American community and yes church is a big part of that and then the fact she will most likely end up without these guys in the end anyway. I see very little outreach programs for 55 year old plus American women in the mosques if they arent married anymore and its a lonely place to be aging without your American friends...No church trips to branson.. I wonder if anyone else has thought about the impact of these cupid conversions on everyone around the woman converting for the relationship which has little chance of lasting anyway.

I thnk that taking offense is really silly because if you are a commited muslim, you wouldnt care if someone questioned your reversion to begin with. I just think the embassies are onto all of this and they know that alot of the women

[Meriem_DZ 37]

I wasnt trying to be offensive. I think alot of the women are lonley, maybe not even really religious in the first place or had a bad experience with church. In the long run, I always encourage people to stay close to their family and friends and even if they want to explore Islam, to do it slowly and methodically because for the most part, most of these women will not stay with the men they marry and its very hard especially if they have kids because the muslim community is really not set up to sunday school them or be a support to them after they get older ( the kids) I think sunday school is very important to kids and their development whether they be christian they go to jewish school or even an islamic school. But these half hearted cupid conversions are bad for all around. They are bad for the mena guy because he thinks he is getting something different than what he is really getting.. a woman who really didnt do it for the right reasons, the woman who is only doing it to either please the guy , get him more interested or make marrying her more palatable and the kids who are usually coming out of divorce to begin with to be thrust head first into a religion that is totally foreign to American society and the fact that most of these guys wont even be around 4 or 5 years later. You have a kid who missed out on normal American activities which yes, church seems to be a big part of the lives of most Americans, a woman who has removed herself from the American community and yes church is a big part of that and then the fact she will most likely end up without these guys in the end anyway. I see very little outreach programs for 55 year old plus American women in the mosques if they arent married anymore and its a lonely place to be aging without your American friends...No church trips to branson.. I wonder if anyone else has thought about the impact of these cupid conversions on everyone around the woman converting for the relationship which has little chance of lasting anyway.

I thnk that taking offense is really silly because if you are a commited muslim, you wouldnt care if someone questioned your reversion to begin with. I just think the embassies are onto all of this and they know that alot of the women

So, HIT, are you saying your conversion or reversion to Islam was a "cupid conversion" ? Are you not Muslim anymore? Your bitterness toward MENA men is getting a little old, in my opinion. This is not the place to express your views in this manner. Maybe a better place would be Daniel Pipes or the like. All of us here have fiances or husbands from the Middle East and North Africa. So please stop trying to save me about my wonderful, loving MENA husband!

Meriem

Edited April 24, 2011 by Meriem_DZ

[Myopia 93]

This is not to offend anyone. Its just my opinion and I have been around the masjids etc for over 10 years. I find most of the reverts really have no clue of what they are getting into, they have no understanding of apostasy, they have been sold some kind of lighter version of whats really involved and the relationships were the fodder to why they went and jumped in to begin with. I have met many who miss their churches, their holidays and traditions, ESPECIALLY when the relationships end after the guys get their papers and then they feel super lost because blood is alot thicker than water and unless you really wanted this and there was no relationship that inspired it, whats left for the American when things go south? The parking lot of the masjid is littered with the broken hearts of women who reverted to please men and not for their own reasons... I feel this very strongly and if you did it for you and you wont leave it when your marriage goes south, then good for you but thats not what I have watched or seen,,

I also feel that if a relgious muslim doesnt insist on the western woman reverting , most likely its just for papers anyway. I dont know a religious muslim who would marry a non muslim anyway, especially if kids are on the way...I think if they are willing to do it, they want a greencard and not much else. Religion is very important to mena men as far as I see.

I think you are spot on. On these forums a lot of the reverts are practicing what I call Islam lite. They do not wear hijab, they dont pray, they have men who smoke and drink and arent really good practicing members of Islam. We have muslim women who are married to non muslims who full well know that in Islam they arent even married so thats how much their faith means to them (why not just leave Islam if you want to live a life that contradicts Islam?) and so on and so forth,

A religious muslim man can marry a woman who is christian or jewish and she will not need to convert.

[Myopia 93]

My husband is very religious and we agree that we live in this country. We will not isolate our children from the larger American culture or my family. We participate in all holidays with my family in our own way. ppearances". Truly converted happens in your heart and intentions. And Islam isn't any harder than you chose to make it.

Honestly. COnversion in Islam is more than something that occurs in the heart. Islam can be Islam lite if you make it up as you go along and follow what you want to follow but this is not really Islam.

When you say your husband is religious and then say you participate in all holidays...it conflicts for me as a muslim because I know that religious muslims will not take part in those festivals. Allahu Alim.

[Myopia 93]

I wasnt trying to be offensive. I think alot of the women are lonley, maybe not even really religious in the first place or had a bad experience with church. In the long run, I always encourage people to stay close to their family and friends and even if they want to explore Islam, to do it slowly and methodically because for the most part, most of these women will not stay with the men they marry and its very hard especially if they have kids because the muslim community is really not set up to sunday school them or be a support to them after they get older ( the kids) I think sunday school is very important to kids and their development whether they be christian they go to jewish school or even an islamic school. But these half hearted cupid conversions are bad for all around. They are bad for the mena guy because he thinks he is getting something different than what he is really getting.. a woman who really didnt do it for the right reasons, the woman who is only doing it to either please the guy , get him more interested or make marrying her more palatable and the kids who are usually coming out of divorce to begin with to be thrust head first into a religion that is totally foreign to American society and the fact that most of these guys wont even be around 4 or 5 years later. You have a kid who missed out on normal American activities which yes, church seems to be a big part of the lives of most Americans, a woman who has removed herself from the American community and yes church is a big part of that and then the fact she will most likely end up without these guys in the end anyway. I see very little outreach programs for 55 year old plus American women in the mosques if they arent married anymore and its a lonely place to be aging without your American friends...No church trips to branson.. I wonder if anyone else has thought about the impact of these cupid conversions on everyone around the woman converting for the relationship which has little chance of lasting anyway.

I thnk that taking offense is really silly because if you are a commited muslim, you wouldnt care if someone questioned your reversion to begin with. I just think the embassies are onto all of this and they know that alot of the women

Most Muslim communities have schools for their children. In arabic this is called a Madarassa which means school. In this society the word madarassa has become synonomous with terrorism which has never been the case.

If a woman accepts Islam sincerely then she is going to find the community here in the USA lends itself to children and educating them.

[momof1 205]

I converted to islam at age 19 which was almost 11 years ago. My faith has gone from very exciting to very rigid to now being settled into a comfortable place. I wear hijab, pray, send my son's to weekend Islamic school, and attend religious holidays and gatherings. I also work and take care of my home and family. I have retirement savings and college funds for both of my boys. We have two cars and we're renters. I yell at my husband in the grocery store because he can never pick the correct chicken stock even though we buy some every week. He carries the groceries inside and I pick them up. We sit down to dinner together. We pray together. We watch TV and go bowling. We go to Disney World every winter with my parents and my mom takes our oldest for two weeks in the summer. We've managed to find a nice balance between our shared religion and our lives in the United States. There's nothing fairytale or cupid about our lives. We both go through periods of strength and weakness in our faith and we always manage to push eachother along. There are a lot of compromises we both make to keep each of our families happy while not giving up our own beliefs.

HIT, I'm sorry for your experiences. It would be nice for you to realize that there are successful stories out there that aren't a disaster waiting to happen. You also have responsibility for your situation. While no one will blame you for what happened, you have to realize that choices you made led you down that road. I hope one day you can let go of all of your bitterness and anger so that you can find a much more peaceful and happy place.

[maimouna 21]

I am new here, so what is HIT's problem with ISLAM and muslim men?

Also, HIT, what is Sharia Law? Please do not tell me Palin's or Bill O'reilly versions...do your own research please and come back with something!! Also please if you are talking about Islam try to dissociate your experience with muslims from your answers as that will be nothing else than stereotyping.

[kristen_maroc 126]

Wow... so if I listen to some people on this thread, my fiance must be marrying me for papers since:

1. I am Christian and

2. He is not asking me to revert?

REALLY?!

Oh, man. I better go back and rethink all those good, challenging and beautiful conversations about religion that we have several times a week where we both learn and push each other and grow in our own faiths and spirituality. Because OBVIOUSLY they are fake. Also, when my fiance and I discuss things like learning about each others' faiths by reading the Bible and Qu'ran together once we are married and discussing and learning about where we come from and our belief systems together, he's just saying it for a green card, right?

/end sarcasm

I mean, my fiance explains it to me using Sura 5:5 of the Qur'an, which says:

... Likewise you are permitted to marry chaste believing women [Muslims] or chaste women among the people who were given the Scripture [Jews and Christians]...

I think I need to avoid these MENA threads for awhile. It's one thing to talk about someone's own beliefs and personal experiences; it's a whole new ball game when people start telling me what my relationship must or must not be based on some sort of claim on understanding everything about Islam and how to practice it correctly and generalizing about all MENA or Muslim men.

My understanding is that in both cases, it is up to God to judge.

Edited April 24, 2011 by kristen_maroc