I-864 Assets and Income

[2_travelers_now_1 0]

Hello all,

I am soon to marry my Fiance' in Malaysia, where I will reside approx. 2-3 months with her and her son, under 18 yr. old, return to the U.S. and begin the process for filing CR-1. It looks like we will need a Joint Sponsor at this time, which is becoming difficult to find. So we are looking at trying to meet the guidelines by combing our assets and income, which depends on some critical areas of what will be accepted as allowable assets / income. I have seen the basic requireents in the forums and at the USCIS Site. But we have need of more detail, then the generalization and conflicting answers. I've been on VJ before and I know the answers can be found with these members. So i will try & make this short guy's. First problem, I am of Disabiltiy (SSI). I'll see if I can ask my questions in a bullet list format.

1. From what I have been told, Social Security and SSDI can be used to show Income, but not SSI. That's a killer, unless someone know's different. If it cannot be used as income, should I still list it on the I-864? It would seem a wise idea.

2. I have seen so many places say, "Savings & Checking" cannot be used as an asset, they need to be converted to a Money Market, CD, Stocks, Bonds, etc. While at the same time, just as many asnwers saying they can be counted as assets (They are Cash). What is the best route here or is it all the same?

3. The I-864 instructions state Child Support can be shown as income, but it seems to be directed at the Petitioner. My wife receives Child Support and it will follow her to the U.S. Being married wouldn't this count as income from her side?

4. Will her retirement fund from her Employer in Malaysia be counted once it is cashed out to her when she resigns or should this be converted to another type of account?

5. She is a Homeowner in Malaysia, I lease here in the U.S. The way I read the instructions, we have an appraisal done on it's current value, then deduct what liens / mortgage is owed on it. I.E - Appraisal $200,000. Amount need to pay of the house and gain ownership, $100,000. This equals the Net Value ($100,000), correct?? Okay, I'm going to throw this in to cover all of the Asset questions. USCIS states the Petioner can now use 1/3 in lieu of 1/5 of the value of his / her assets. I cannot find anything on the U.S. Sites about the petioner's assets. The Forums I have visited say the U.S. Petioner gets the 1/3 and the Spouse overseas still has to use the 1/5 Value formula for any of her assets. This just doesn't sound right if we are legally married, if it is then should we not try to add myself to her mortgage as Joint Signer / Joint Owner in some capacity?

6.Lastly, if her Child Support is counted as income since it will continue after she reaches the U.S., is this income counted in full or does it get hit with the 1/3 or 1/5 rule? Wooops, sorry...one more I promise, Does having "Joint Accounts" in the U.S. , such as a Money Market make any difference?

Well I tried to keep it short, but if we can get enough of these questions answered accurately it means the difference of our "Domicile" being in the US or Malaysia. Note: the monetary figures on her home are fictous for simplicities sake.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated,

Thanks.

Kevin & Mandy

[pushbrk 13,268]

Hello all,

I am soon to marry my Fiance' in Malaysia, where I will reside approx. 2-3 months with her and her son, under 18 yr. old, return to the U.S. and begin the process for filing CR-1. It looks like we will need a Joint Sponsor at this time, which is becoming difficult to find. So we are looking at trying to meet the guidelines by combing our assets and income, which depends on some critical areas of what will be accepted as allowable assets / income. I have seen the basic requireents in the forums and at the USCIS Site. But we have need of more detail, then the generalization and conflicting answers. I've been on VJ before and I know the answers can be found with these members. So i will try & make this short guy's. First problem, I am of Disabiltiy (SSI). I'll see if I can ask my questions in a bullet list format.

1. From what I have been told, Social Security and SSDI can be used to show Income, but not SSI. That's a killer, unless someone know's different. If it cannot be used as income, should I still list it on the I-864? It would seem a wise idea.

2. I have seen so many places say, "Savings & Checking" cannot be used as an asset, they need to be converted to a Money Market, CD, Stocks, Bonds, etc. While at the same time, just as many asnwers saying they can be counted as assets (They are Cash). What is the best route here or is it all the same?

3. The I-864 instructions state Child Support can be shown as income, but it seems to be directed at the Petitioner. My wife receives Child Support and it will follow her to the U.S. Being married wouldn't this count as income from her side?

4. Will her retirement fund from her Employer in Malaysia be counted once it is cashed out to her when she resigns or should this be converted to another type of account?

5. She is a Homeowner in Malaysia, I lease here in the U.S. The way I read the instructions, we have an appraisal done on it's current value, then deduct what liens / mortgage is owed on it. I.E - Appraisal $200,000. Amount need to pay of the house and gain ownership, $100,000. This equals the Net Value ($100,000), correct?? Okay, I'm going to throw this in to cover all of the Asset questions. USCIS states the Petioner can now use 1/3 in lieu of 1/5 of the value of his / her assets. I cannot find anything on the U.S. Sites about the petioner's assets. The Forums I have visited say the U.S. Petioner gets the 1/3 and the Spouse overseas still has to use the 1/5 Value formula for any of her assets. This just doesn't sound right if we are legally married, if it is then should we not try to add myself to her mortgage as Joint Signer / Joint Owner in some capacity?

6.Lastly, if her Child Support is counted as income since it will continue after she reaches the U.S., is this income counted in full or does it get hit with the 1/3 or 1/5 rule? Wooops, sorry...one more I promise, Does having "Joint Accounts" in the U.S. , such as a Money Market make any difference?

Well I tried to keep it short, but if we can get enough of these questions answered accurately it means the difference of our "Domicile" being in the US or Malaysia. Note: the monetary figures on her home are fictous for simplicities sake.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated,

Thanks.

Kevin & Mandy

For the petitioner, income is income. Yes, you can count long term federal entitlement benefits and document them with an award letter.

Cash assets count but something like 5-8 thousand in checking and savings will probably be assumed to be spent on travel expenses and no available for future support.

Beneficiary's child support could be counted if you can provide sufficient documentation it actually WILL continue. For example, when a petitioner uses child support, they must show it is court ordered and document they are actually receiving it. In your case, you'd also need to document all that, plus how it's going to be paid and why the US Government should be confident it WILL be paid.

Yes, you could show the value of her retirement account and document it's value upon liquidation. For a US account, current value and liquidation value are quite different. Don't know about Malaysia. If the value would be the same now as it would be upon her resignation, liquidate it now and put it in a joint account in the USA.

To use her home equity, I would liquidate it and move the funds to a joint account in the USA.

Income is income. Assets are assets. The 1/3 and 1/5 are applicable to assets, not income.

One important caveat is that if the qualifying assets and income are primarily coming from the immigrant, expect considerably more scrutiny of your relationship bona fides.

Edited April 10, 2011 by pushbrk

[2_travelers_now_1 0]

For the petitioner, income is income. Yes, you can count long term federal entitlement benefits and document them with an award letter.

Cash assets count but something like 5-8 thousand in checking and savings will probably be assumed to be spent on travel expenses and no available for future support.

Beneficiary's child support could be counted if you can provide sufficient documentation it actually WILL continue. For example, when a petitioner uses child support, they must show it is court ordered and document they are actually receiving it. In your case, you'd also need to document all that, plus how it's going to be paid and why the US Government should be confident it WILL be paid.

Yes, you could show the value of her retirement account and document it's value upon liquidation. For a US account, current value and liquidation value are quite different. Don't know about Malaysia. If the value would be the same now as it would be upon her resignation, liquidate it now and put it in a joint account in the USA.

To use her home equity, I would liquidate it and move the funds to a joint account in the USA.

Income is income. Assets are assets. The 1/3 and 1/5 are applicable to assets, not income.

One important caveat is that if the qualifying assets and income are primarily coming from the immigrant, expect considerably more scrutiny of your relationship bona fides.

Everything sounds good & I appreciate your input. I'm still fuzzy on a couple of points though. Or at least weary on this one. We have considered staying in Malaysia long term. My Case Worker at Social Security stated after 30 Days they would discontinue my SSI benefits. If they were Social Security or SSDI, I would cinue receiving them as long as I was overseas. I agree with you, income is income, but this difference I mentioned does make me wonder why. I don't know if SSI is a "Means Tested Benefit" that would exclude it. I was never required to show proof of any income, assets. etc... Just the Doc's Medical info. and my Lawyers Legalize talk as to why it prevented full time employment. I definitley don't want to raise any Red Flags by asking the wrong person withe Feds.

Also, I see what you say on the 1/3 & 1/5 not applying to income. Which is good. But my 1st question is the Beneficiary (Spouse) still under the 1/5 Rule on Assets. The USCIS does make it clear that the Petioner , being a U.S. Citizen is under the 1/3 rule, but avoids any comment on the Spouses responsibility as far as 1/3 or 1/5. This is the one no one seems to have an solid answer to, and I'm trying to avoid the Immigration Attorney route.

Your other answer are what we thought and the Child Support is Court Ordered and will follow most definitley, for reasons I won't mention on the Public Forum.

Thanks for your help and if you have anymore insight on that SSI difference or whether the Beneficiary falls under the 1/3 or 1/5 rule for assets I would appreciate. We may just make it without a Joint Sponsor..