Al-Qaida advises Americans to adopt Islam, a last chance

[Traviesa 0]

do the 4 witnesses get charged with complacency?

You would think they'd get charged with something. At the very least, they would have sinned because they watched a woman involved in a sexual act and surely ended up seeing various parts of her...

[Alex+R 0]

do the 4 witnesses get charged with complacency?

Good point. It only counts as rape if it was a gang rape, apparently.

[rooster 1]

Under the current law, approved by a former military dictator in 1979, prosecuting a rape case requires testimony from four witnesses, making punishment almost impossible because such attacks are rarely public.

A woman who claims she was raped but fails to prove her case can be convicted of adultery, punishable by death.

What I would really like to know is what happens to the man? What if it's a married man who has committed adultery as well? Hopefully that is also punishable by death-although it seems so uneven. Like, as someone was explaining to me yesterday, women cover themselves up to prevent bad thoughts in the men, but it doesn't seem that men have to cover themselves up to prevent the same thoughts from women. The idea makes sense to me, but not why it's only applicable to one sex and not the other.

Men are also supposed to be modest and they are commanded to lower their gaze and not harrass women so it goes both ways.

I'm not sure of the religious aspect of this BUT in Saudi (they claim to (or try to) follow the sharia in most of their laws), if a man is convicted of rape his punishment is death... not a bad idea IMHO

As far as the four witness thing I have my own issues with this. While I agree that there should be four witnesses (to prevent someone from being falsely accussed and killed for something they didn't do), I don't understand why other things can't stand in as a 'witness'. -- For example... DNA, I think would make a wonderful witness... bruises on the girl could also be a 'witness'... any kind of proof that she could present really... I don't understand why those things couldn't count as 'witnesses'. Just my questions / opinions on it.

I agree with VP on the "witness" thing. Rape doesnt generally happen out in the open. The 4 witness thing is ####### IMHO. Unless as VP said, other forms of evidence can be used in the place of eye witnesses.

AND, If you have 4 witnesses to a rape, and they just stood by and watched, they are 4 COWARDS and should recieve some form of punishment thierselves. Just my opinion of course.

Rooster

[ya falaha! 0]

Holy #######..your avatar made me laugh so loud, Mirorgate....hahahahaha!

Passed over on the opportunity before.. think I'll pass again. Legalistic I just dont want to get back to... ya know?

[Veiled Princess 1]

I agree with VP on the "witness" thing. Rape doesnt generally happen out in the open. The 4 witness thing is ####### IMHO. Unless as VP said, other forms of evidence can be used in the place of eye witnesses.

AND, If you have 4 witnesses to a rape, and they just stood by and watched, they are 4 COWARDS and should recieve some form of punishment thierselves. Just my opinion of course.

Rooster

The great thing about that four witness rule is... 1) it greatly reduces the room for error--like if she did it willingly and then later just doesn't wanna get in trouble with her dad or husband or some such BS... it wouldn't be fair that he got killed because she didn't wanna take her own punishment. 2) kind of puts a damper on men killing/punishing their daughters/wives/sisters/other women because they 'suspect' she's been whoring around.

[rooster 1]

The great thing about that four witness rule is... 1) it greatly reduces the room for error--like if she did it willingly and then later just doesn't wanna get in trouble with her dad or husband or some such BS... it wouldn't be fair that he got killed because she didn't wanna take her own punishment. 2) kind of puts a damper on men killing/punishing their daughters/wives/sisters/other women because they 'suspect' she's been whoring around.

I admit it DOES have advantages such as you mentioned. But it would seem to me, this law leads to a large number of actual rapes to go unreported. There are too many unreported rapes here in the US without those laws just from the victim's embarassment and shame.

[Ivanovo 0]

I agree with VP on the "witness" thing. Rape doesnt generally happen out in the open. The 4 witness thing is ####### IMHO. Unless as VP said, other forms of evidence can be used in the place of eye witnesses.

AND, If you have 4 witnesses to a rape, and they just stood by and watched, they are 4 COWARDS and should recieve some form of punishment thierselves. Just my opinion of course.

Rooster

The great thing about that four witness rule is... 1) it greatly reduces the room for error--like if she did it willingly and then later just doesn't wanna get in trouble with her dad or husband or some such BS... it wouldn't be fair that he got killed because she didn't wanna take her own punishment. 2) kind of puts a damper on men killing/punishing their daughters/wives/sisters/other women because they 'suspect' she's been whoring around.

agree that substantial evidence is and should be required before guilt found and penalty imposed. Still wondering what happens to the 4 "witnesses". is there a law of "complacency" in pakistan?

[Veiled Princess 1]

I admit it DOES have advantages such as you mentioned. But it would seem to me, this law leads to a large number of actual rapes to go unreported. There are too many unreported rapes here in the US without those laws just from the victim's embarassment and shame.

Agreed.

agree that substantial evidence is and should be required before guilt found and penalty imposed. Still wondering what happens to the 4 "witnesses". is there a law of "complacency" in pakistan?

I'm not familiar with pakistani law so I don't have a clue.

Just because someone witnesses something does not automatically make them guilty... they could have just been passing by the house/bar/alley/whatever where it was happening and heard her screaming and reported it to the authorities.

[Ivanovo 0]

I admit it DOES have advantages such as you mentioned. But it would seem to me, this law leads to a large number of actual rapes to go unreported. There are too many unreported rapes here in the US without those laws just from the victim's embarassment and shame.

Agreed.

agree that substantial evidence is and should be required before guilt found and penalty imposed. Still wondering what happens to the 4 "witnesses". is there a law of "complacency" in pakistan?

I'm not familiar with pakistani law so I don't have a clue.

Just because someone witnesses something does not automatically make them guilty... they could have just been passing by the house/bar/alley/whatever where it was happening and heard her screaming and reported it to the authorities.

ok sorry my mistake got confused it seems you were talking about the saudi arabian perspective before and the article was pakistan..