Request for Evidence

[Alex and Ania 0]

Hi Fellow Travelers,

My wife and I filed our I-751 mid-January and today I received an RFE. The RFE itself doesn't provide much guidance beyond stating that I've submitted enough photos and affidavits.

The rest is boilerplate describing finacial records, residence information, etc. Oddly, the RFE included a single letter sized envelope. I can't imagine that DHS is trying to tell us that we're an envelope's worth of evidence away from fulfilling our evidentiary obligations?

When we put the packet together, I thought we provided a reasonable spectrum of evidence to establish that our marriage is legitimate.

Here's a list of what I included as evidence:

• Health insurance card showing both names
• Front page of 1040 for 2008, 2009 showing joint filing
• Hotel receipt with wife's maiden name and an attached credit card receipt with my name
• E-ticket receipts for flights with our names
• Copy of flight itinerary with our names
• First page and beneficiary designations of life insurance policies for both of us showing each as the other's beneficiary
• Itinerary from other trips together
• An AMEX statement showing both names
• An ATT statement showing both names
• Copies of passport pages from both passports showing coinciding entry and exit stamps
• Various photos of us together
• Three (3) notarized affidavits

Here's what I don't have:

• No mortgage or home title with both names. I bought the home and last refinanced prior to our marriage.
• No car title, or car loans with both names. I have one car paid off prior to marriage and the other was purchased before marriage.
• No joint checking account. We use our AMEXs and she has a separate checking account.
• No joint utility bills except for cell service. I set up utilities prior to marriage. Didn't see a point in putting her on the bill.
• No kids
• No loans taken out since we were married

So, here's what I can add:

• Car insurance with her name (rated on the policy.)
• AMEX statements going back two years for both of us
• Dentist bill with both our names
• FSA statements showing both names
• Complete 2010, 2009, 2008 joint 1040 tax filings. It looks like they want the whole thing including copies of W-2s, etc. (I didn't include the 2010 in the original filing)
• Copies of mail addressed to my wife at our home
• Full copies of life insurance policies for both of us
• Medical insurance claims
• Her school tuition paid on my AMEX (also part of 2010 taxes)
• NPR donation with both names
• Cards, letters from wedding, etc.
• Holiday cards, etc.

Most of the additional evidence seems circumstantial to me and that's unsettling. At this point it seems like we're reduced to providing a high volume of relatively low quality evidence.

I was hoping that receipts from two trips to Europe, various photos (including from our wedding), affidavits from three people would be strong evidence, but it seems like it's not enough.

In light of our circumstances, what does VJ recommend?

Are these applications adjudicated on a preponderance of evidence?

Should I include a statement explaining why we don't have joint loans, joint titles, etc?

Should I bother adding her to the utilities, cars, house or opening a joint checking account?

I don't imagine that would help unless they deny the application and we have to start over, while building more history.

Thanks for any advice. VJ has been a great resource so far, and I hope that our experience can help the community,

[Darnell 8,478]

ROC evidence should be focused on financial co-mingling - you've had 2 years or more to generate it.

I'm sorry about your position on utility bills - that one 'little' thing, IMO, would trump a lot of silliness.

[P&R 1]

I know everyone is different and we all handle our finances in a way that suits us best, but I must say I've never understood how couples don't have their assets together. Just my opinion, but it really dumbfounds me when I see how many couples here don't share and have everything joined.

From the month we were approved for AOS in 2009, we sent quarterly statements of all bills, bank statements, cell phone bills, etc. I added my hubby to everything, once we were married. His name is on vehicles, policies, etc. There really isn't anything that we don't share together. I also sent the full tax return for each year, including our amended return for 2009 after he received his Social#. My tax preparer wouldn't let me add him as my spouse, until he received that card.

I've never done affidavits or sent in any cards/invitations or things of that sort. (Fingers crossed all will be well for our ROC)

I wish you all the best with your RFE and hopefully some of which you see we've sent in, can give you an idea what else you can add to yours.

~~R

Edited April 8, 2011 by P&R

[Yurika & Jim 77]

Sorry about your RFE...

Did you send letter explaining the reasons why you don't have mortgage with both name or no joint bank account? If you didn't, why don't you send it this time?

And please come back to January Filers thread and update your case

[Alex and Ania 0]

I know everyone is different and we all handle our finances in a way that suits us best, but I must say I've never understood how couples don't have their assets together. Just my opinion, but it really dumbfounds me when I see how many couples here don't share and have everything joined.

From the month we were approved for AOS in 2009, we sent quarterly statements of all bills, bank statements, cell phone bills, etc. I added my hubby to everything, once we were married. His name is on vehicles, policies, etc. There really isn't anything that we don't share together. I also sent the full tax return for each year, including our amended return for 2009 after he received his Social#. My tax preparer wouldn't let me add him as my spouse, until he received that card.

I've never done affidavits or sent in any cards/invitations or things of that sort. (Fingers crossed all will be well for our ROC)

I wish you all the best with your RFE and hopefully some of which you see we've sent in, can give you an idea what else you can add to yours.

~~R

In short, we're busy living our lives, not generating paperwork. I've tried to interest my wife in our finances, but she is happy leaving that to me to handle. We don't have a pre-nuptual agreement so (as I understand the laws of my state) our property is owned in common. I suppose there are reasons to get her name on everything but it's not clear why that legitimizes a marriage any more than the sworn testimony of three friends.

Ok, I'm not an immigration adjudicator, and you and the previous poster have valid points. Best to bite the bullet, deal with the paperwork and have the documents at the ready for the ROC. In the meantime.... maybe this advice should be added to the guides,

Scanning some other threads, other posters have come up with some additional ideas for evidence:

• Driver's licenses for the couple
• Voter registration letter (establishing residence)
• Jury duty summons

[P&R 1]

In short, we're busy living our lives, not generating paperwork. I've tried to interest my wife in our finances, but she is happy leaving that to me to handle. We don't have a pre-nuptual agreement so (as I understand the laws of my state) our property is owned in common. I suppose there are reasons to get her name on everything but it's not clear why that legitimizes a marriage any more than the sworn testimony of three friends.

Ok, I'm not an immigration adjudicator, and you and the previous poster have valid points. Best to bite the bullet, deal with the paperwork and have the documents at the ready for the ROC. In the meantime.... maybe this advice should be added to the guides,

Scanning some other threads, other posters have come up with some additional ideas for evidence:

• Driver's licenses for the couple
• Voter registration letter (establishing residence)
• Jury duty summons

I agree with you in the fact that we too have been living our lives these past 2 years, but we also knew that the day would come when it was time to continue

with my husband's immigration process. I've always co-mingled assets with my spouse (first marriage) and then with this marriage, so this is nothing new

for me to do. I hope that makes sense.

Just because names are on the same piece of paper, doesn't show the legitimacy of a marriage, but I feel it shows the trust in your spouse and in the strength

of the relationship. Showing financial co-mingling was one of the things on the list given to us also by our interviewing IO during our AOS process, when my husband

was approved. She stated "the more you show that as a couple you do things together (finances...etc.) the better chances you have of not dealing with another interview".

We took her advice to heart and we just wanted to make sure that after everything we've gone through to get to this point, there would be as little chance as possible of our

family being disrupted and torn apart.

The additional ideas you showed here for evidence are good ones and we included copies of our DL's with the same address together. Never thought of a

voter registration card and I've never received any jury summons, but I will certainly keep those things in mind for any future paperwork, we could possibly

need.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

I think you should be fine with the additional material you are submitting. What struck me is that you didn't provide a lot of evidence covering the full time of your marriage - rather just a snapshot of one time. Filling in the blanks with AMEX statements going back to the start of your marriage and showing how both of you use the account answers the co-mingling of resources. Do you pay the AMEX bill from your account? You could include some of the statements showing how you are paying bills she has also charged on the account.

Even though much of the evidence seems circumstantial, some of it is of the type that a fake marriage wouldn't generate - such as the NPR donation in both of your names, medical insurance and dental claims and her tuition being paid by you. Providing this new evidence and adding to the material you submitted before to show the interaction of your financial, personal and social lives over the term of your marriage should bring you an approval.

I wasn't added to any of our utility bills or the mortgage but we do have a joint account as well as a joint AMEX account. I explained in the covering letter why I wasn't added to the mortgage or deed and that the utility accounts were paid on line so there wasn't any paper trail anyway, plus included quarterly statements of the financial documents, copies of our health cards for each year, vehicle registration for each year (my car is listed in both our names) along with medical and dental statements, each of us added to the other's pension as the 'beneficiary', etc. I also highlighted on the bank statements or the AMEX statements bills that I had paid with my card that were obviously for the house (eg tree removal from yard, termite treatment, etc.). If she paid any obvious household expenses from her checking account (the statement would be sent to the same address so that also helps) then you can include that with the item(s) highlighted.

I think you should be fine now. Good luck.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Kathryn41

[Alex and Ania 0]

I think you should be fine with the additional material you are submitting. What struck me is that you didn't provide a lot of evidence covering the full time of your marriage - rather just a snapshot of one time. Filling in the blanks with AMEX statements going back to the start of your marriage and showing how both of you use the account answers the co-mingling of resources. Do you pay the AMEX bill from your account? You could include some of the statements showing how you are paying bills she has also charged on the account.

Even though much of the evidence seems circumstantial, some of it is of the type that a fake marriage wouldn't generate - such as the NPR donation in both of your names, medical insurance and dental claims and her tuition being paid by you. Providing this new evidence and adding to the material you submitted before to show the interaction of your financial, personal and social lives over the term of your marriage should bring you an approval.

I wasn't added to any of our utility bills or the mortgage but we do have a joint account as well as a joint AMEX account. I explained in the covering letter why I wasn't added to the mortgage or deed and that the utility accounts were paid on line so there wasn't any paper trail anyway, plus included quarterly statements of the financial documents, copies of our health cards for each year, vehicle registration for each year (my car is listed in both our names) along with medical and dental statements, each of us added to the other's pension as the 'beneficiary', etc. I also highlighted on the bank statements or the AMEX statements bills that I had paid with my card that were obviously for the house (eg tree removal from yard, termite treatment, etc.). If she paid any obvious household expenses from her checking account (the statement would be sent to the same address so that also helps) then you can include that with the item(s) highlighted.

I think you should be fine now. Good luck.

All good points. I do pay the AMEX from my main account. We both have accounts at the same bank and I should be able to find some money transfers that I've done from my account into hers over the last two years. The last time I deposited money into her account, it was a stack of checks made out to me that I endorsed over to her, that doesn't really help however. As far as bills, those have been on online autopilot as well for many years.

In retrospect, I think, as you have pointed out, that I didn't include enough information from the AMEX statements. I can show activity going back a long time, and given that that's our main vehicle for transactions, it makes sense to put more emphasis there.

Another mentioned the commingling of finances, and I've seen that emphasized by other posters. My takeaway is that SHOWING JOINT FINANCES OVER THE RELEVANT TIME PERIOD IS IMPORTANT.

I think that I made an additional mistake in how I included our joint tax filings. The RFE states that we should submit the signature pages, W-2s and other portions of our tax statements. I didn't include the signature page or the W-2s and other attachments. I have also seen "IRS transcripts" mention on the boards. I'm not sure exactly what these include, but I'll try to order these from the IRS for inclusion as well.

Receipts from dental and medical office visits also sound like a good idea. Our dentist sends invoices in my wife's name, so that should be worth while. Also, our life insurance premiums come from the same account, so it may be useful to show those deductions, if I can correlate them with the respective policies in some reasonable way.

Thanks to all who have responded. I appreciate your comments, opinions and advice.

[Alex and Ania 0]

I agree with you in the fact that we too have been living our lives these past 2 years, but we also knew that the day would come when it was time to continue

with my husband's immigration process. I've always co-mingled assets with my spouse (first marriage) and then with this marriage, so this is nothing new

for me to do. I hope that makes sense.

Just because names are on the same piece of paper, doesn't show the legitimacy of a marriage, but I feel it shows the trust in your spouse and in the strength

of the relationship. Showing financial co-mingling was one of the things on the list given to us also by our interviewing IO during our AOS process, when my husband

was approved. She stated "the more you show that as a couple you do things together (finances...etc.) the better chances you have of not dealing with another interview".

We took her advice to heart and we just wanted to make sure that after everything we've gone through to get to this point, there would be as little chance as possible of our

family being disrupted and torn apart.

The additional ideas you showed here for evidence are good ones and we included copies of our DL's with the same address together. Never thought of a

voter registration card and I've never received any jury summons, but I will certainly keep those things in mind for any future paperwork, we could possibly

need.

What you say makes perfect sense. We've been moving in this direction at bit of a slower pace. My wife has had many firsts since we got married. These are things that may seem rather banal but, she got her first bank account, debit card, charge card, (we've avoided checks so far), driving lessons, car, car insurance, life insurance, filed taxes, gone back to school, wondered why the stores keep charging her more than the sticker price, and so on... none of these things, how they work, their consequences in our lives are necessarily obvious. So, we're pacing ourselves. That said, if I had it to do over, I'd have called the cable company, the utilities, the bank and put her name on those too. I'll start that ball rolling anyway... there's no reason to put it off.

[HighMaintenance 1]

I think the house is key. During my interview, the officer harped heavily on the house. He wanted to see that we are both on it. We are but I did not have the actual deed with me, something I did not realize until he questioned the paper I thought was the deed.

I would add her to the house. It should be a simple transaction at the county office.

[Alex and Ania 0]

I think the house is key. During my interview, the officer harped heavily on the house. He wanted to see that we are both on it. We are but I did not have the actual deed with me, something I did not realize until he questioned the paper I thought was the deed.

I would add her to the house. It should be a simple transaction at the county office.

Quick update. We sent our RFE response on May 6th (due date was May 12). Got a letter in the mail saying our application was approved! We're both relieved.

We put together a large packet of approximately 300 pages of scanned docs, or downloaded PDFs (printed duplex) comprising the following:

• RFE notice
• A cover letter explaining our situation (i.e. why we don't have house title together, why she's not on the utilities,why she's not on the car loan, etc, how our AMEX are our primary payment method.)
• Both driver's licenses
• Dentist invoices showing both names
• Doctor invoices showing both names
• Full copy of 2010 Federal 1040 with electronic signature pages
• IRS transcripts of 2009, 2008 Federal 1040
• Full copies of life insurance policies for both of us (showing the other as beneficiary)
• Full copies of auto insurance policies showing her as rated on the policies
• Printouts of benefits elections showing both of us since marriage
• Her tuition bills sent to our home
• Full copies of mobile phone statements for family plan (including all calls, we mostly call each other) for about 8 months (since we started the service)
• A copy of one cable bill showing both names (I had updated the account right after I got the RFE and received a statement before I completed the packet)
• Full copies of AMEX statements for every other month going back to before I added my wife to the account
• Full copies of my bank statements showing all transactions for every other month going back several years (shows that AMEX, mortgage, car loan and utilities are paid from the account)
• Copies of our Costco cards and renewal notices sent to both of us at home for two years

I'm sure that the volume of information was overkill, but I didn't want to leave any doubt for the adjudicator. I was pretty upset that we got an RFE. In retrospect,I made some unwarranted assumptions about what we needed to submit. Interestingly, the RFE attachment outlining the evidence that we needed to submit was significantly more detailed than the instructions for the application (specifying details like such as needing to include all attachments for the 1040, etc, or stipulating that life insurance applications weren't valid.)

For the RFE, I decided to include all pages of documents. This means that I submitted a good 50 pages of life insurance policy boilerplate where before I had only included the cover letter and the beneficiary designations for each policy. AMEX statements ended up being up to 20 pages long with all the superfluous stuff that they include with statements.

I hope that someone finds this sufficiently helpful to warrant bumping an old thread.

Thanks again to all who contributed comments and advice.

[TBoneTX 45,299]

It's always good when someone closes the loop of an open situation, and even better when it's done in such complete and literate fashion. Your last post, and indeed this entire thread, will be quite helpful to those who read it.

And congratulations on your approval, si man!

[Holliday 4]

I will echo TBone's sentiments here. I'm just preparing now to apply for ROC in a month or so, and as such, your experience is helpful/valuable to me, so thank you! Congrats on your recent approval, and thanks again for sharing your experience.