Republcans embrace Obamacare without calling it that...

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Just stop all this nonsense and give us national single payer. Jeez.

So you're against the idea of privatizing Medicare and Social Security?

[The Dude 206]

Why are you even posting in this thread then? You just admitted you're here to troll....

Paul, you can quit lying, everyone here can read, and see that I said no such thing. So you can stop trolling, or respond, your choice.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Paul, you can quit lying, everyone here can read, and see that I said no such thing. So you can stop trolling, or respond, your choice.

You haven't contributed 1 thing to this thread other than a "+1" to a comment in which you immediately took that moment to start insulting me and continue to attempt to do so without debating the topic at all.

You can try and marginalize me all you want, but until you actually try and debate anything i've said, you're just taking up space with your insults.

I've given you plenty of real/actual exmaples in this thread you can feel free to debate. The truth is though either A- you agree with what I have to say, or B- you're just here to troll at this point. You're offering nothing to the contrary.

Of course it wouldn't surprise me if you're a retread another user who's been warned on these boards/banned. That's exactly what you're acting like. An IP trace on you by the moderators would probably show you have multiple accounts which is clearly against the TOS.

[The Dude 206]

You haven't contributed 1 thing to this thread other than a "+1" to a comment in which you immediately took that moment to start insulting me and continue to attempt to do so without debating the topic at all.

You can try and marginalize me all you want, but until you actually try and debate anything i've said, you're just taking up space with your insults.

I've given you plenty of real/actual exmaples in this thread you can feel free to debate. The truth is though either A- you agree with what I have to say, or B- you're just here to troll at this point. You're offering nothing to the contrary.

Of course it wouldn't surprise me if you're a retread another user who's been warned on these boards/banned. That's exactly what you're acting like. An IP trace on you by the moderators would probably show you have multiple accounts which is clearly against the TOS.

Paul, I don't have to marginalize you, you do a fairly good job of that all on your own. You are trying to justify health insurance companies. They ARE the problem, not a symptom of it. So you have looked up the TOS I see, you should familiarize yourself with it though. I have shut down my old account. I used my same signature file, and sent a PM to Ewok and another moderator. I am using the same signature file that I used on my other account, I have made no attempt to hide who I am. Nice try though, but again, you don't quite know what you're talking about.

But back on topic, please do keep trying to justify the health insurance companies as being good for health, I could use a good laugh this afternoon.

[JohnSmith2007 353]

So you're against the idea of privatizing Medicare and Social Security?

I think we should do away with social security all together. As for medicare, when we get single payer medicare will just be folded it with single payer. No need for two government health care systems.

[The Dude 206]

It suddenly occured to me that you dont' know who I am on here Paul. I do apologize, I wasn't trying to hide my identity, that is why I kept the same signature file. In case you still haven't figured it out, I'm Rob.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

That's the key though at the end of the day isn't it?

What is a 'reasonable' cost for health care.

A doctor's office is a business at the end of the day. They have regular bills for electricity, water, employees, property insurance, rent, etc. That's every day expenses. Now let's talk about expensive machinery, keeping certain expensive drugs on hand, normal drugs on hand, disposable items, sanitary items, malpractice insurance, etc.

All of those things add up REAL QUICK for an individual doctor. It's part of the reason why the private practice is becoming a thing of the past. Many doctors try to combine efforts into 'family clinics' where you have a few doctors and each have their staff under one roof and share equipment costs, etc. They each still have their individual costs though as well.

This not even mentioning that some of them want to make great money as well.

You can take health insurance out of the equation all you want, but at the end of the day there are great costs in becoming a doctor and maintaining and up-to-date functioning office/hospital, etc.

Well, that's the case for doctors all over the industrialized world, isn't it? And somehow these other countries manage to achieve better outcomes at a lower cost. Not to mention that people in other developed countries don't have the hassle that Americans face with thew health care insurance - not from a coverage point of view, not in terms of accessibility, affordability or any other way. What gives? What value do the private health care insurers actually add? What justfies the profits they make? The salaries they pay out? What exactly do they add that's desirable?

[SMOKE 1,426]

n/m

Edited April 5, 2011 by SMOKE

[mawilson 2,133]

So in effect, this is a ... mandate to buy a private product!

I don't see any penalties for those who choose not to buy it.

[mawilson 2,133]

So you're against the idea of privatizing Medicare and Social Security?

What does Social Security have to do with it? SS hasn't contributed a single dime

to the deficit - it's solvent until 2037 (assuming the debt obligations are paid back).

[mawilson 2,133]

You are trying to justify health insurance companies. They ARE the problem, not a symptom of it.

I doubt it. As a "man in the middle", they do siphon off some profits for themselves,

but usually no more than 3-4 percent - a very modest profit margin.

Doctors and hospitals are the problem.

[The Dude 206]

I doubt it. As a "man in the middle", they do siphon off some profits for themselves,

but usually no more than 3-4 percent - a very modest profit margin.

Doctors and hospitals are the problem.

Profit margins and shareholder value should not be deciding factors in a medical decision. Under the current system, they are. Seems quite clear to me.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I doubt it. As a "man in the middle", they do siphon off some profits for themselves,

but usually no more than 3-4 percent - a very modest profit margin.

Doctors and hospitals are the problem.

How much staff does a doctor employ to do nothing but deal with the fragmented insurance system? How much staff do insurers employ to do nothing but face off against the staff at the doctors offices? How much staff do insurers employ for product development, risk assessment, marketing, underwriting, etc.? And then you have the profits on top of all that. That's the least of the problem. The red tape that we have allowed to build up in our health care system is what adds significantly to the cost. All cost and no value as far as the eye can see.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

This thread hasn't died yet?

[JohnSmith2007 353]

How much staff does a doctor employ to do nothing but deal with the fragmented insurance system? How much staff do insurers employ to do nothing but face off against the staff at the doctors offices? How much staff do insurers employ for product development, risk assessment, marketing, underwriting, etc.? And then you have the profits on top of all that. That's the least of the problem. The red tape that we have allowed to build up in our health care system is what adds significantly to the cost. All cost and no value as far as the eye can see.

You have forgotten another money waster, defensive medicine. Doctors will test for things they don't need to just to ward off the one in a million chance of missing something. In addition to SP we need torte reform. Limit lawsuits to actual damages. Cap pain and suffering awards. Punish those that abuse the system with junk lawsuits.