What if they were Muslim?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

EXCLUSIVE: Herman Cain Tells ThinkProgress ‘I Will Not’ Appoint A Muslim In My Administration

ThinkProgress filed this report from the Conservative Principles Conference in Des Moines, IA.

As the Republican presidential nomination process begins, one GOP candidate is making a name for himself as the Islamophobia candidate: Herman Cain.

Earlier this week, Cain gave an interview to Christianity Today in which he declared that, “based upon the little knowledge that I have of the Muslim religion, you know, they have an objective to convert all infidels or kill them.”

ThinkProgress caught up with the former CEO of Godfather’s Pizza today at the Conservative Principles Conference in Des Moines, Iowa, to discuss his comments further. We asked him, in light of his statements on Islam, would he be comfortable appointing any Muslims in his administration. Rather than skirting the question or hedging his answer, as most presidential aspirants are wont to do, Cain was definitive: “No, I will not”:

KEYES: You came under a bit of controversy this week for some of the comments made about Muslims in general. Would you be comfortable appointing a Muslim, either in your cabinet or as a federal judge?

CAIN: No, I will not. And here’s why. There is this creeping attempt, there is this attempt to gradually ease Sharia law and the Muslim faith into our government. It does not belong in our government. This is what happened in Europe. And little by little, to try and be politically correct, they made this little change, they made this little change. And now they’ve got a social problem that they don’t know what to do with hardly.

The question that was asked that “raised some questions” and, as my grandfather said, “I does not care, I feel the way I feel.” I was asked, “what is the role of Islam in America?” I thought it was an odd question. I said the role of Islam in America is for those that believe in Islam to practice it and leave us alone. Just like Christianity. We have a First Amendment. And I get upset when the Muslims in this country, some of them, try to force their Sharia law onto the rest of us.

Watch it:

Cain should check his understanding of the U.S. Constitution, which states in Article 6:

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

Cain’s apparent rationale for refusing to even consider a Muslim nominee for any position in his administration is as simple as it is abhorrent: he believes all Muslims would try to “force their Sharia law onto the rest of us.” This type of bigotry has been promoted by conservative figures like Frank Gaffney and Brigitte Gabriel for years. Now, it appears to be seeping into the presidential race via Herman Cain.

Edited April 4, 2011 by Sofiyya

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Muslim Civil Rights Group Asks Huckabee To Apologize For “Infidel” Comments

by Alex Alvarez | 1:14 pm, February 22nd, 2011

Yesterday, we told you about a Tennessee church that was allowing Muslims to use their facilities for worship while their mosque was undergoing construction. The church’s decision sparked a debate on Fox News over whether such a choice was misguided.

Weighing in on the debate, former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee made no bones about where he stood on the matter:

If the purpose of a church is to push forth the gospel of Jesus Christ, and then you have a Muslim group that says that Jesus Christ and all the people that follow him are a bunch of infidels who should be essentially obliterated, I guess I have a hard time understanding that.

That comment has drawn criticism from the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a Muslim civil rights group. In a statement released Monday, the Council suggested that Huckabee do more research into Islam, calling his comment not only insensitive, but inaccurate as well. The group’s national executive director, Nihad Awad, pointed to a verse within the Koran to prove his point: “Say: ‘We believe in God and the revelation given to us and to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and their descendants, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and it is to Him that we surrender ourselves’” (2:136).

Watch Huckabee’s original comments, via Fox News, below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viTgXt1ZlCI

My comments: Mike likes to run off at the foot in mouth. I wonder if he would have the same reaction if the church had opened its doors to a Jewish congregation that needed a space to worship. Judaism isn't into worshiping Jesus either.

Edited April 4, 2011 by Sofiyya

[sandinista! 1,816]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again-godfather's is just not good pizza at all.

Herman Cain is a nobody. And I'll bet there's plenty of people who would try and argue that because he's a nobody, his quotes about not hiring a Muslim based on their Muslim-ness have barely elicited a single bit of ####### reactions or condemnation. If it were a black guy running for office blubbering about how he'd never hire a white person cause they're all bigots and blah blah blah, it would have lit a fire under the arses of so many indignant self-righteous RWNs by now though. No doubt about it.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Some good news about 'Islamic terror'

Posted By Stephen M. Walt Wednesday, February 9, 2011

Ever since 9/11, Islamophobia has been a recurrent problem in a number of Western societies, including the United States. It's been fueled by opportunistic politicians, hate-mongering bloggers, and any number of the other usual suspects. The lingering fear of Islam undergirds the present concerns that the turmoil in Egypt might give groups like the Muslim Brotherhood greater political influence there.

Trying to inject reason and evidence into this sort of debate is usually futile, but I do wish to report some good news. Remember the avalanche of Muslim-based terrorism that was about to descend upon the West? Well, according to the EU's 2010 Terrorism Situation and Trend Report, the total number of terrorist incidents in Europe declined in 2009. Even more important, the overwhelming majority of these incidents had nothing whatsoever to do with Islam.

The report is produced by Europol, which is the criminal intelligence agency of the European Union. In 2009, there were fewer than 300 terrorist incidents in Europe, a 33 percent decline from the previous year. The vast majority of these incidents (237 out of 294) were conducted by indigenous European separatist groups, with another forty or so attributed to leftists and/or anarchists. According to the report, a grand total of one (1) attack was conducted by Islamists. Put differently, Islamist groups were responsible for a whopping 0.34 percent of all terrorist incidents in Europe in 2009. In addition, the report notes, "the number of arrests relating to Islamist terrorism (110) decreased by 41 percent compared to 2008, which continues the trend of a steady decrease since 2006."

I know there are lot of people getting rich fueling Islamophobia, but we'd really all be better off if they would focus their attention to anarchists, or maybe separatist groups like ETA. The report isn't naive or Panglossian about Islamic radicalism, and it emphasizes that there are still extremist groups with worrisome ambitions. But their sifting of the data does put the actual danger in perspective and serves as a valuable corrective to the careless threat inflation that has become all too common over the past decade.

[Dan and Judy 614]

EXCLUSIVE: Herman Cain Tells ThinkProgress ‘I Will Not’ Appoint A Muslim In My Administration

ThinkProgress filed this report from the Conservative Principles Conference in Des Moines, IA.

As the Republican presidential nomination process begins, one GOP candidate is making a name for himself as the Islamophobia candidate: Herman Cain.

Earlier this week, Cain gave an interview to Christianity Today in which he declared that, “based upon the little knowledge that I have of the Muslim religion, you know, they have an objective to convert all infidels or kill them.”

ThinkProgress caught up with the former CEO of Godfather’s Pizza today at the Conservative Principles Conference in Des Moines, Iowa, to discuss his comments further. We asked him, in light of his statements on Islam, would he be comfortable appointing any Muslims in his administration. Rather than skirting the question or hedging his answer, as most presidential aspirants are wont to do, Cain was definitive: “No, I will not”:

KEYES: You came under a bit of controversy this week for some of the comments made about Muslims in general. Would you be comfortable appointing a Muslim, either in your cabinet or as a federal judge?

CAIN: No, I will not. And here’s why. There is this creeping attempt, there is this attempt to gradually ease Sharia law and the Muslim faith into our government. It does not belong in our government. This is what happened in Europe. And little by little, to try and be politically correct, they made this little change, they made this little change. And now they’ve got a social problem that they don’t know what to do with hardly.

The question that was asked that “raised some questions” and, as my grandfather said, “I does not care, I feel the way I feel.” I was asked, “what is the role of Islam in America?” I thought it was an odd question. I said the role of Islam in America is for those that believe in Islam to practice it and leave us alone. Just like Christianity. We have a First Amendment. And I get upset when the Muslims in this country, some of them, try to force their Sharia law onto the rest of us.

Watch it:

Cain should check his understanding of the U.S. Constitution, which states in Article 6:

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

Cain’s apparent rationale for refusing to even consider a Muslim nominee for any position in his administration is as simple as it is abhorrent: he believes all Muslims would try to “force their Sharia law onto the rest of us.” This type of bigotry has been promoted by conservative figures like Frank Gaffney and Brigitte Gabriel for years. Now, it appears to be seeping into the presidential race via Herman Cain.

It's fine to hire Muslims......... just not as bodyguards

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

It's fine to hire Muslims......... just not as bodyguards

And as TSA employee's.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

What you fail to see Sof, is that while Christians can and do occasionally commit horrific acts your first story about the old man being stoned to death by a perp citing biblical rational is rare. And the fact was part of the story you posted. Most commit horrific acts based on other issues such as mental instability or what have you and their Christianity is unknown or unrelated.

Radical Muslim Terrorists also commit horrific acts, citing Quoranic justification, and thus that fact makes it into the story too.

Of course committing horrific acts in the name of any religion is an act of insanity.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

What you fail to see Sof, is that while Christians can and do occasionally commit horrific acts your first story about the old man being stoned to death by a perp citing biblical rational is rare. And the fact was part of the story you posted. Most commit horrific acts based on other issues such as mental instability or what have you and their Christianity is unknown or unrelated.

Radical Muslim Terrorists also commit horrific acts, citing Quoranic justification, and thus that fact makes it into the story too.

Of course committing horrific acts in the name of any religion is an act of insanity.

How do you know such acts are rare when it's the exception to identify Christian perpetrators, but, the habit to identify Muslim perpetrators by religion? Perhaps Muslims are mentally unstable, too. But, nooooooo, anything they do is because of Islam. A double standard what you fail to see.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Muslims See Double Standard in ‘Terrorist’ Label

April 6, 2010

(RNS) When 19 Muslim men crashed two planes into the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001, it was widely labeled “Islamic terrorism,” even as many Muslims cringed at the term.

So when nine members of a Michigan-based Christian militia, fueled by visions of the apocalypse, laid plans to gun down police officers, is it “Christian terrorism?”

Many Muslims, and others, think it should be.

“In cases of violence committed by Muslims, when it’s politically motivated, yes, call it Muslim terrorism. But when other faiths or ideologies commit violence, it has to be the same,” said Alejandro Buetel, the government liaison officer for the Muslim Public Affairs Council in Washington.

“We’re calling for consistency.”

Recent charges filed against the Michigan-based Hutaree militia are just the latest indication that terrorism is not unique to Islam, they say, and that other religious and ideological groups can commit violence for their cause.

Muslims aren’t alone in seeing a double standard in the way terrorism is linked to Islam but not often to Christianity or other religions.

“I understand their frustration,” said the Rev. Joel Hunter, a board member of the National Association of Evangelicals and pastor of Northland Church outside Orlando, Fla., who says the Hutaree militia gives the same bad name to Christianity as Osama bin Laden does to Islam.

“I can feel what Muslims feel when they watch those mischaracterizations of their faith, and wanting people to know that that’s not what their faith is about.”

The Hutaree militia isn’t the only group that has issued an ideological call to arms. After Congress passed health care reform in March, at least 10 House Democrats reported receiving death threats, incidents of vandalism, or harassment, presumably from conservative opponents. In February, a Texas man, Joseph Stack III, flew his small airplane into an IRS office building in Austin, killing himself and an office worker.

“Terrorism is terrorism, regardless of the faith, race or ethnicity of the perpetrator of the victims,” said Nihad Awad, the executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, in a statement that called on the U.S. government to condemn the Texas attack as terrorism. “If a Muslim had carried out the IRS attack, it would have surely been labeled an act of terrorism.”

Muslims complain that although they and their leaders have condemned terrorism countless times, some of their critics still accuse them of not condemning it strongly enough. Given the recent acts of Christian and conservative terrorism, Muslims leaders said it’s now up to Republicans and other conservative figures to condemn those acts.

“It’s fair enough to say, `Where do you stand on this?”‘ said Pamela Taylor, a Muslim activist in Cincinnati. Added Buetel, from MPAC: “The inconsistency is politically irresponsible.”

Despite warnings about right-wing militias and the Hutaree arrests, many Muslims believe conservative figures –especially those who have embraced terminology like “Islamic terrorism” — have remained mostly silent on condemning right-wing violence.

Muslims point to the different labels used to describe Stack, the Texas man who flew his plane into the FBI office, and Army Maj. Nidal Hasan, who’s accused of gunning down 13 people at Fort Hood. Both men showed signs of mental instability, and both had political and ideological motivations for their violence, but Muslims say many of the same people who were quick to call Hasan a “Muslim terrorist” preferred to call Stack “mentally ill.”

Muslim commentator Yasmin Mogahed, writing on Huffingtonpost.com, pointed out that after the Hutaree arrests, she saw no experts on TV exploring whether Christian doctrine condones violence, the same way experts often are invited to search the Quran for verses condoning violence.

“If there’s news of a Muslim terrorist, Islam becomes complicit in the crime. Yet few people are going to accuse Christianity of motivating the terrorism of the Hutaree militia,” she wrote.

Despite their grievances, most Muslims interviewed said they don’t want people to start using the term “Christian terrorism,” but prefer that no religious adjective precedes “terrorism.”

“There shouldn’t be any schadenfreude. That’s a selfish motivation that doesn’t serve the greater good,” said Taylor. “The idea of Christian terrorism is ludicrous, in terms of theology, just like the idea that Islamic theology is responsible for terrorism is also ludicrous.”

Even though other faiths are now exposed to the same association with violence that has dogged Islam in recent years, Muslims are keeping their expectations low that anything will change.

“Muslims are still `the other,’ and it’s easier to say Muslims are violent or prone to terrorism,” Taylor said. “But Christianity is something very familiar to most people in America, and it’s hard for people to say `Christian terrorism.”‘

By OMAR SACIRBEY

Read more: http://blog.beliefnet.com/news/2010/04/muslims-see-double-standard.php#ixzz1IWOazexG

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Muslims point to the different labels used to describe Stack, the Texas man who flew his plane into the FBI office, and Army Maj. Nidal Hasan, who’s accused of gunning down 13 people at Fort Hood. Both men showed signs of mental instability, and both had political and ideological motivations for their violence, but Muslims say many of the same people who were quick to call Hasan a “Muslim terrorist” preferred to call Stack “mentally ill.”

The above excerpt from article in post 54 could also apply to the difference between the reporting of the alleged perpetrator in the shooting of U.S. Rep. Gabriele Giffords and others in Tucson, AZ earlier this year and the actions of Army psychiatrist Nidal Hasan. Both were described as erratic and disturbed by those who knew them prior to their infamy. Both committed a single murderous act. But, only Hasan is described as a terrorist, fitting a prevalent Muslim stereotype, while Loughner, a White guy, is merely mentally ill, bringing no taint to other White guys.

Arizona Suspect’s Recent Acts Offer Hints of Alienation

By ERIC LIPTON, CHARLIE SAVAGE and SCOTT SHANE

WASHINGTON — Jared Lee Loughner had become increasingly erratic in recent months, so much so that others around him began to worry.

He had posted on his Myspace page at some point a photograph of a United States history textbook, on top of which he had placed a handgun. He prepared a series of Internet videos filled with rambling statements on topics including the gold standard, mind control and SWAT teams. And he had started to act oddly during his classes at Pima Community College, causing unease among other students.

That behavior, along with a disturbing video, prompted school administrators to call in Mr. Loughner’s parents and tell them that their son had been suspended and would have to get a mental health evaluation to return to college. Instead, he dropped out in October, a spokesman for the college said.

The evidence and reports about Mr. Loughner’s unusual conduct suggest an increasing alienation from society, confusion, anger as well as foreboding that his life could soon come to an end. Still, there appear to be no explicit threats of violence that explain why, as police allege, Mr. Loughner, 22, would go to a Safeway supermarket north of Tucson on Saturday morning and begin shooting at a popular Democratic congresswoman and more than a dozen other people, killing 6 and wounding 19.

Police officials on Saturday said that Mr. Loughner had a criminal record of some kind, but they did not provide any details. They also hinted that he might have had the help of a second person, adding that they were searching for another man.

Don Coorough, 58, who sat two desks in front of Mr. Loughner in a poetry class last semester, described him as a “troubled young man” and “emotionally underdeveloped.” After another student read a poem about getting an abortion, Mr. Loughner compared the young woman to a “terrorist for killing the baby.”

“No one in that class would even sit next to him,” Mr. Coorough said. Another fellow student said that he found Mr. Loughner’s behavior so eccentric — including inappropriate remarks and unusual outbursts — that he wondered if he might be on hallucinogens. Mr. Loughner grew up in Tucson and was an unremarkable student at Mountain View High School, classmates said.

Grant Wiens, 22, who graduated in 2006 from Mountain View High School, a year ahead of Mr. Loughner, described him as “a kind of rare bird, very shy.”

“He didn’t seem very popular, but he kind of did his own thing,” Mr. Wiens said.

Mr. Wiens said that something Mr. Loughner said during a discussion about religion had stuck in his mind: “Whatever happens, happens,” Mr. Wiens recalled the suspect saying. “Might as well enjoy life now.”

Another former high school classmate said that Mr. Loughner may have met Representative Giffords, who was shot in the head outside the Safeway supermarket, several years ago.

“As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy,” the former classmate, Caitie Parker, wrote in a series of Twitter feeds Saturday. “I haven’t seen him since ’07 though. He became very reclusive.”

“He was a political radical & met Giffords once before in ’07, asked her a question & he told me she was ‘stupid & unintelligent,’ ” she wrote.

Neighbors of Mr. Loughner in Orangewood Estates, a middle-class subdivision of single-family homes north of Tucson, said that he lived with his parents, Amy and Randy Loughner, and that they did not believe he had siblings. Two neighbors said they saw the family come and go but knew little about them.

A series of short videos posted on the Internet, apparently by Mr. Loughner, consist of changing blocs of text that are largely rambling and incoherent. Many take the form of stating a premise and then a logical conclusion that would follow from it.

They speak of being a “conscience dreamer”; becoming a treasurer of a new currency; controlling “English grammar structure”; mentioned brainwashing and suggested that he believed he had powers of mind control.

“In conclusion, my ambition — is for informing literate dreamers about a new currency; in a few days, you know I’m conscience dreaming!” he wrote in one video, which was uploaded to YouTube on Dec. 15.

Still, some strands of recognizable political thought are woven among the more incoherent writings. Another video, for example, says debts should only be paid in currency that is backed by gold and silver.

One of his videos also suggests that he may have applied to join the Army at a recruiting station in Phoenix. It says he received a miniature Bible before taking tests there, and that he did not write a belief on his application form, so a recruiter wrote “none.”

Army officials said Saturday night that he had tried to enlist but had been rejected for military service. Privacy rules prevented them from disclosing the reason.

Paul Schwalbach, the spokesman for the Pima Community College, said one video that Mr. Loughner had prepared was considered particularly troubling by campus administrators, motivating them to suspend Mr. Loughner in September.

College “police and other officials viewed it and found it very disturbing,” he said. After he was suspended, Mr. Loughner and his parents met with administrators, who said he would require a mental health clearance if he wanted to return to college. It could not be learned on Saturday whether Mr. Loughner ever saw a psychiatrist or other professional or was diagnosed with a mental illness.

But the rambling, disconnected writings and videos he has left on the Web are consistent with the delusions produced by a psychotic illness like schizophrenia, which develops most often in the teens or 20s.

Among other complaints, Mr. Loughner’s social networking pages suggest that he had grievances against Pima Community College, that he felt cheated in some way.

“If I’m not receiving the purchase from a payment then I’m a victim of fraud,” he wrote, referencing the school, in one of his many confusing phrases posted in his videos.

His YouTube page also listed a series of favorite books. Some were novels about political dystopias — including “Animal Farm” by George Orwell and “Brave New World” by Aldous Huxley. Others were about falling into fantasy worlds — like “Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland” and “Through the Looking-Glass” by Lewis Carroll.

In one extended Internet posting, Mr. Loughner suggested that the government was trying to trick him, or take advantage of him, although he never explained exactly what caused these concerns.

He also prepared a video that he called “My Final Thoughts: Jared Lee Loughner!”

“All humans are in need of sleep. Jared Loughner is a human. Hence, Jared Loughner is in need of sleep,” he wrote. He also briefly discusses terrorism.

“If I define terrorist then a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon. I define terrorist,” he wrote. “If you call me a terrorist then the argument to call me a terrorist is ad hominem. You call me a terrorist.”

As recently as Saturday, he posted a message on his Myspace account hinting that he was going away.

“Goodbye,” he wrote at about 5 a.m. Saturday. “Dear friends . . . Please don’t be mad at me.”

[ready4ONE 5,400]

How do you know such acts are rare when it's the exception to identify Christian perpetrators, but, the habit to identify Muslim perpetrators by religion? Perhaps Muslims are mentally unstable, too. But, nooooooo, anything they do is because of Islam. A double standard what you fail to see.

No I see you posted a story in which a man justified stoning another via his Biblical justification. It was a part of the story, thus relayed in the story. Much as religious affiliation is relayed in stories of abortion clinic doctor murders. Misguided Christianity makes the news when it is part of the news.

When the Fort Hood shooter yelled 'Allahu Akbar' and began shooting, his misguided version of Islam made the news.

Nobody cares if you are a Muslim. People do care if you are a Radical Islamist. There is a difference.

[SuperDuper! 230]

No I see you posted a story in which a man justified stoning another via his Biblical justification. It was a part of the story, thus relayed in the story. Much as religious affiliation is relayed in stories of abortion clinic doctor murders. Misguided Christianity makes the news when it is part of the news.

When the Fort Hood shooter yelled 'Allahu Akbar' and began shooting, his misguided version of Islam made the news.

Nobody cares if you are a Muslim. People do care if you are a Radical Islamist. There is a difference.

Yes, you are spot on! Just wondering why some are trying so hard to make a stand here.... :whistle:

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I've posted a lot of stories, several involving extremist non-Muslims/Christians. No comment about them. As far as the difference between a Muslim and a radical Muslim, there's not much of a difference in the mainstream media. Any Muslim who speaks out takes the risk of being labeled radical. Look what happened to Imam Rauf, a man who'd spent 30 years promoting interfaith unity. None of that mattered once the loons got ahold of him.

I live with this every day. You're the one who doesn't get it.

No I see you posted a story in which a man justified stoning another via his Biblical justification. It was a part of the story, thus relayed in the story. Much as religious affiliation is relayed in stories of abortion clinic doctor murders. Misguided Christianity makes the news when it is part of the news.

When the Fort Hood shooter yelled 'Allahu Akbar' and began shooting, his misguided version of Islam made the news.

Nobody cares if you are a Muslim. People do care if you are a Radical Islamist. There is a difference.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Yes, you are spot on! Just wondering why some are trying so hard to make a stand here.... :whistle:

Wondering why you think that taking a stand is odd :whistle:

[Amby 490]

I watch Fox and I don't hate Muslims