TYPECASTING MUSLIMS AS A RACE

[Kez/JWolf 6]

If the terrorist were to stop doing their killing in the name of islam then maybe people would stop looking at all people of islamic faith with fear.... the same thing happened in Northern Ireland... white catholic and white Prodistants killed each other in the name of religion so it was the religion that got the bad name and all the people who practiced those religions were thought of as possible terrorists....

IMO

Kezzie

Edited September 5, 2006 by Kezzie

[samir_shannon 0]

Muslim decribes a person who is following Islam.. it isnt a race because there are muslims of all different races. I hate it when they are generally described as terrorists because most muslims do not agree with radical islamists. Actually out of all muslim people only a very small percentage of muslims agree with radical islam. I politely do not agree with Islam myself , but it is a religion of the book and they have the same God as us so that makes them my brothers and sisters. Think about it there are good people and bad people of every religion.

[tmma 467]

If the terrorist were to stop doing their killing in the name of islam then maybe people would stop looking at all people of islamic faith with fear.... the same thing happened in Northern Ireland... white catholic and white Prodistants killed each other in the name of religion so it was the religion that got the bad name and all the people who practiced those religions were thought of as possible terrorists....

IMO

Kezzie

Right Kezzie; however, religious leaders on both sides openly condemned the actions of the terrorists that were operating under their " religious umbrella". The Catholic Church condemned the actions of the Catholic terrorists as did the Protestant church, I believe.. (but by all means correct me if I am wrong as I did grow up in England during " the troubles" but I was very young when it was at it's height).

edit--lousey grammar

Edited September 5, 2006 by tmma

[samir_shannon 0]

If the terrorist were to stop doing their killing in the name of islam then maybe people would stop looking at all people of islamic faith with fear.... the same thing happened in Northern Ireland... white catholic and white Prodistants killed each other in the name of religion so it was the religion that got the bad name and all the people who practiced those religions were thought of as possible terrorists....

IMO

Kezzie

I have said what you have said to my fiance who is muslim myself.. he says it is so sad for his people that people like that do it in the name of Allah and in the name of Islam. For the true muslims this is very sad for them, they feel misrepresented and feel like they are paying for someone elses mistakes. But, the predjudice can also go both ways.. there are muslims who do not like us (christians and jews). There is alot of hate in the world and it is a shame really.

If the terrorist were to stop doing their killing in the name of islam then maybe people would stop looking at all people of islamic faith with fear.... the same thing happened in Northern Ireland... white catholic and white Prodistants killed each other in the name of religion so it was the religion that got the bad name and all the people who practiced those religions were thought of as possible terrorists....

IMO

Kezzie

Right Kezzie; however, religious leaders on both sides openly condemned the actions of the terrorists that were operating under their " religious umbrella". The Catholic Church condemned the actions of the Catholic terrorists as did the Protestant church, I believe.. (but by all means correct me if I am wrong as I did grow up in England during " the troubles" but I was very young when it was at it's height).

edit--lousey grammar

there are muslims who openly condemn terrorists actions .......look at Algeria for instance. they had thier own terrorists in thier country trying to take over the government. They condemned it and got rid of most of them.

[tmma 467]

If the terrorist were to stop doing their killing in the name of islam then maybe people would stop looking at all people of islamic faith with fear.... the same thing happened in Northern Ireland... white catholic and white Prodistants killed each other in the name of religion so it was the religion that got the bad name and all the people who practiced those religions were thought of as possible terrorists....

IMO

Kezzie

I have said what you have said to my fiance who is muslim myself.. he says it is so sad for his people that people like that do it in the name of Allah and in the name of Islam. For the true muslims this is very sad for them, they feel misrepresented and feel like they are paying for someone elses mistakes. But, the predjudice can also go both ways.. there are muslims who do not like us (christians and jews). There is alot of hate in the world and it is a shame really.

If the terrorist were to stop doing their killing in the name of islam then maybe people would stop looking at all people of islamic faith with fear.... the same thing happened in Northern Ireland... white catholic and white Prodistants killed each other in the name of religion so it was the religion that got the bad name and all the people who practiced those religions were thought of as possible terrorists....

IMO

Kezzie

Right Kezzie; however, religious leaders on both sides openly condemned the actions of the terrorists that were operating under their " religious umbrella". The Catholic Church condemned the actions of the Catholic terrorists as did the Protestant church, I believe.. (but by all means correct me if I am wrong as I did grow up in England during " the troubles" but I was very young when it was at it's height).

edit--lousey grammar

there are muslims who openly condemn terrorists actions .......look at Algeria for instance. they had thier own terrorists in thier country trying to take over the government. They condemned it and got rid of most of them.

Globally the Islamic religion has a following of approximatly 1.5 billion ( someone correct if that figure is wrong), anyway-that's an awful lot of people with a huge potential influence on the crazy few operating under the "guise" of Islam; and to influence the rest of the world's view of Islam. 1.5 billion is a powerfully large amount of people-and if the crazies are so few within them, then regular following is large enough to try and at least " drown the crazies out" for instance-for every image there is of someone holding up a placard saying " Death to all non-Muslims" there should be 10 or 100 more peaceful Muslims holding signs that say " We support the fight against these unbelievers". Just MHO.

I believe there is alot that the regular Muslims can do to help themselves and the rest of the world's image of their religion which would help calm the so called bigotry or racism or whatever label.

Edited September 5, 2006 by tmma

[samir_shannon 0]

If the terrorist were to stop doing their killing in the name of islam then maybe people would stop looking at all people of islamic faith with fear.... the same thing happened in Northern Ireland... white catholic and white Prodistants killed each other in the name of religion so it was the religion that got the bad name and all the people who practiced those religions were thought of as possible terrorists....

IMO

Kezzie

I have said what you have said to my fiance who is muslim myself.. he says it is so sad for his people that people like that do it in the name of Allah and in the name of Islam. For the true muslims this is very sad for them, they feel misrepresented and feel like they are paying for someone elses mistakes. But, the predjudice can also go both ways.. there are muslims who do not like us (christians and jews). There is alot of hate in the world and it is a shame really.

If the terrorist were to stop doing their killing in the name of islam then maybe people would stop looking at all people of islamic faith with fear.... the same thing happened in Northern Ireland... white catholic and white Prodistants killed each other in the name of religion so it was the religion that got the bad name and all the people who practiced those religions were thought of as possible terrorists....

IMO

Kezzie

Right Kezzie; however, religious leaders on both sides openly condemned the actions of the terrorists that were operating under their " religious umbrella". The Catholic Church condemned the actions of the Catholic terrorists as did the Protestant church, I believe.. (but by all means correct me if I am wrong as I did grow up in England during " the troubles" but I was very young when it was at it's height).

edit--lousey grammar

there are muslims who openly condemn terrorists actions .......look at Algeria for instance. they had thier own terrorists in thier country trying to take over the government. They condemned it and got rid of most of them.

Globally the Islamic religion has a following of approximatly 1.5 billion ( someone correct if that figure is wrong), anyway-that's an awful lot of people with a huge potential influence on the crazy few operating under the "guise" of Islam; and to influence the rest of the world's view of Islam. 1.5 billion is a powerfully large amount of people-and if the crazies are so few within them, then regular following is large enough to try and at least " drown the crazies out" for instance-for every image there is of someone holding up a placard saying " Death to all non-Muslims" there should be 10 or 100 more peaceful Muslims holding signs that say " We support the fight against these unbelievers". Just MHO.

I believe there is alot that the regular Muslims can do to help themselves and the rest of the world's image of their religion which would help calm the so called bigotry or racism or whatever label.

hmmm you do have a point....

[Veiled Princess 1]

Who says that muslims and scholars / religious leaders do not openly condemn terrorism? Just because it doesn't get good ratings so CNN and Faux News stays away from it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Initiatives and Actions Taken by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia To Combat Terrorism

Saudi also doesn't have a problem with dealing with these terrorists in a proper manner...

Saudi authorities execute three convicted terrorists

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) — Saudi authorities executed three Saudi militants convicted of assassinating several officials two years ago, Saudi authorities said as this Gulf state continued its campaign to stamp out terrorism.

The three men were beheaded in public Friday in the northern Saudi city of al-Jawf where they carried out their crimes, the Interior Ministry said. After the executions, authorities displayed the executed militants in a public square outside a mosque, tying their bodies to poles on top of which were placed their heads.

Their execution marked the first time Saudi authorities announced penalties against convicted terrorists since 1996. The Saudi monarch had announced an amnesty last year promising that repenting militants will not be sentenced to death.

Militants have carried out multiple suicide bombings and kidnappings and fought gun battles with security forces since May 2003. The attacks have been blamed on al-Qaeda, the terrorist group headed by Saudi-born terrorist Osama bin Laden, and allied militants.

The men executed Friday — Hisham bin Awwad, Mohammed bin Awadh and Amjad bin Abdul Aziz — were convicted in the 2003 killings of a deputy governor, a religious court judge and a police lieutenant.

In May 1996, Saudi authorities beheaded four Saudis who confessed to bombing a U.S.-run military training facility, killing five Americans and two Indians.

Saudi Arabia follows a strict interpretation of Islam under which people convicted of drug trafficking, murder, rape and armed robbery can be executed. Beheadings are carried out with a sword in a public square. Saudi beheadings

there should be 10 or 100 more peaceful Muslims holding signs that say " We support the fight against these unbelievers". Just MHO.

The problem with that is that not all muslims believe in protesting in this manner so it's not likely to happen in the way you want it.

[Henia 11]

The problem with this is that as soon as anyone here (VJ) makes a comment about "Muslim Terrorists", they are labeled "Racist". So, if the Muslims themselves are calling people racist for being suspicious of Muslims, then who has really labeled them as a "race"?

I actually don't label them racists... bigot fits much more nicely there

[tmma 467]

Who says that muslims and scholars / religious leaders do not openly condemn terrorism?

No one said that.

Given the enormity of what is happening and the terrible effect the activities of the few are having on the entire religion; I would think that the leaders would be MORE vocal. That was my point. I was actually agreeing with your first post on this thread, VP....sigh. Oh well.

Just because it doesn't get good ratings so CNN and Faux News stays away from it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

I would think that with the financial resourses and the immense numbers of regular Muslims, there would be a MORE effective MORE vocal way to get the peaceful image across.

After all-the terrorists with their limited financial/technical resources find a way every time to get videos/messages/ideologies through to the world.

Initiatives and Actions Taken by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia To Combat Terrorism

Saudi also doesn't have a problem with dealing with these terrorists in a proper manner...

Saudi authorities execute three convicted terrorists

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) — Saudi authorities executed three Saudi militants convicted of assassinating several officials two years ago, Saudi authorities said as this Gulf state continued its campaign to stamp out terrorism.

The three men were beheaded in public Friday in the northern Saudi city of al-Jawf where they carried out their crimes, the Interior Ministry said. After the executions, authorities displayed the executed militants in a public square outside a mosque, tying their bodies to poles on top of which were placed their heads.

Their execution marked the first time Saudi authorities announced penalties against convicted terrorists since 1996. The Saudi monarch had announced an amnesty last year promising that repenting militants will not be sentenced to death.

Militants have carried out multiple suicide bombings and kidnappings and fought gun battles with security forces since May 2003. The attacks have been blamed on al-Qaeda, the terrorist group headed by Saudi-born terrorist Osama bin Laden, and allied militants.

The men executed Friday — Hisham bin Awwad, Mohammed bin Awadh and Amjad bin Abdul Aziz — were convicted in the 2003 killings of a deputy governor, a religious court judge and a police lieutenant.

In May 1996, Saudi authorities beheaded four Saudis who confessed to bombing a U.S.-run military training facility, killing five Americans and two Indians.

Saudi Arabia follows a strict interpretation of Islam under which people convicted of drug trafficking, murder, rape and armed robbery can be executed. Beheadings are carried out with a sword in a public square. Saudi beheadings

Good for the Saudi Govt!

--broke quotes-sorry

Edited September 5, 2006 by tmma

[Henia 11]

I have said what you have said to my fiance who is muslim myself.. he says it is so sad for his people that people like that do it in the name of Allah and in the name of Islam. For the true muslims this is very sad for them, they feel misrepresented and feel like they are paying for someone elses mistakes. But, the predjudice can also go both ways.. there are muslims who do not like us (christians and jews). There is alot of hate in the world and it is a shame really.

there are muslims who openly condemn terrorists actions .......look at Algeria for instance. they had thier own terrorists in thier country trying to take over the government. They condemned it and got rid of most of them. I agree with you Shannon, what your SO said is correct..we all should condemn anything that causes hurt, pain, suffering or terror in the name of Islam... it is haraam(forbidden) and we should speak out against it...unfrotunately there will always be some crazy loones who do actions in the name of Islam (of really anything they want to)

[tmma 467]

Who says that muslims and scholars / religious leaders do not openly condemn terrorism? Just because it doesn't get good ratings so CNN and Faux News stays away from it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Initiatives and Actions Taken by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia To Combat Terrorism

Saudi also doesn't have a problem with dealing with these terrorists in a proper manner...

Saudi authorities execute three convicted terrorists

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) — Saudi authorities executed three Saudi militants convicted of assassinating several officials two years ago, Saudi authorities said as this Gulf state continued its campaign to stamp out terrorism.

The three men were beheaded in public Friday in the northern Saudi city of al-Jawf where they carried out their crimes, the Interior Ministry said. After the executions, authorities displayed the executed militants in a public square outside a mosque, tying their bodies to poles on top of which were placed their heads.

Their execution marked the first time Saudi authorities announced penalties against convicted terrorists since 1996. The Saudi monarch had announced an amnesty last year promising that repenting militants will not be sentenced to death.

Militants have carried out multiple suicide bombings and kidnappings and fought gun battles with security forces since May 2003. The attacks have been blamed on al-Qaeda, the terrorist group headed by Saudi-born terrorist Osama bin Laden, and allied militants.

The men executed Friday — Hisham bin Awwad, Mohammed bin Awadh and Amjad bin Abdul Aziz — were convicted in the 2003 killings of a deputy governor, a religious court judge and a police lieutenant.

In May 1996, Saudi authorities beheaded four Saudis who confessed to bombing a U.S.-run military training facility, killing five Americans and two Indians.

Saudi Arabia follows a strict interpretation of Islam under which people convicted of drug trafficking, murder, rape and armed robbery can be executed. Beheadings are carried out with a sword in a public square. Saudi beheadings

there should be 10 or 100 more peaceful Muslims holding signs that say " We support the fight against these unbelievers". Just MHO.

The problem with that is that not all muslims believe in protesting in this manner so it's not likely to happen in the way you want it.

I am not Muslim, so the manner of protest and show of non-support is inconsequential to me. I just thought that the peaceful true Muslims would want to actively show the world they are not all bad people at all! After all-there are many complaints of " bigotry" which is just bred by ignorance towards Islam.

I accept by your response in that I am wrong in that assumption.....( bolded) you are right, they are free to show non-support as quietly as they wish, but that sends a loud message to the rest of the world, as erroneous as that message may be-if there is no " louder voice" against it-then the wrong perception remains, thus fueling stereotypes and bigotry.

That is all my point was-I am not trying to bait you to a sparring match-we actually agree on a couple of points.

Well, I have things to do.

Bye all

Edited September 5, 2006 by tmma

[Veiled Princess 1]

People who practice Islam ( especially the scholars and the respected leaders) need to openly do what ever version Islam has of " excommunicating" --( completely disowning and distancing themselves and Islam)-- from these terrorists who do these heinous acts.

People who practice Islam are called muslims... so we need to openly do whatever... meaning we don't do it now?

Even if it were by a small amount-it's something.

So right now we're doing nothing, not even a small amount?

One more thing-when the respected leaders and scholars are not " out there " openly and loudly condemning these actions, then alot of people infer that their silence ( or perceived silence) implies agreement with said actions of terrorists-

We are silent on the matter?

Right Kezzie; however, religious leaders on both sides openly condemned the actions of the terrorists that were operating under their " religious umbrella". The Catholic Church condemned the actions of the Catholic terrorists as did the Protestant church,

In other words, those christian sects did speak out against it but we muslims do not?

Who says that muslims and scholars / religious leaders do not openly condemn terrorism?

No one said that.

You did or implied it above. At lest that is how I read it.

[Ban Hammer 13,655]

People who practice Islam ( especially the scholars and the respected leaders) need to openly do what ever version Islam has of " excommunicating" --( completely disowning and distancing themselves and Islam)-- from these terrorists who do these heinous acts.

People who practice Islam are called muslims... so we need to openly do whatever... meaning we don't do it now?

Even if it were by a small amount-it's something.

So right now we're doing nothing, not even a small amount?

One more thing-when the respected leaders and scholars are not " out there " openly and loudly condemning these actions, then alot of people infer that their silence ( or perceived silence) implies agreement with said actions of terrorists-

We are silent on the matter?

Right Kezzie; however, religious leaders on both sides openly condemned the actions of the terrorists that were operating under their " religious umbrella". The Catholic Church condemned the actions of the Catholic terrorists as did the Protestant church,

In other words, those christian sects did speak out against it but we muslims do not?

Who says that muslims and scholars / religious leaders do not openly condemn terrorism?

No one said that.

You did or implied it above. At lest that is how I read it.

run for the hills, vp is posting just like szsz now

[Veiled Princess 1]

I accept by your response in that I am wrong in that assumption.....( bolded) you are right, they are free to show non-support as quietly as they wish, but that sends a loud message to the rest of the world, as erroneous as that message may be-if there is no " louder voice" against it-then the wrong perception remains, thus fueling stereotypes and bigotry.

That is all my point was-I am not trying to bait you to a sparring match-we actually agree on a couple of points.

Well, I have things to do.

Bye all

It should be a pretty loud statement that many MANY muslims live in this country and MANY MANY more throughout the rest of the world and somehow we manage not to "kill every infidel" we run across.

I mean no disrespect to you whatsoever, however, If you (and I am speaking to not only you but anyone who holds your views in general) choose to believe something that you have no knowledge of, please acknowledge that (the fact that you hold this opinion out of ignorance) and stop blaming peaceful muslims who just want to live in peace and practice our religion without being in the middle of oil wars or being blown up by terrorists because we're not loud enough to please you.

I know that is going to sound harsh and someone's gonna twist that to mean I support terrorism or some other such nonsense but oh well. Flame away.....

run for the hills, vp is posting just like szsz now

I actually resent the comparison so please do stop

[tmma 467]

People who practice Islam ( especially the scholars and the respected leaders) need to openly do what ever version Islam has of " excommunicating" --( completely disowning and distancing themselves and Islam)-- from these terrorists who do these heinous acts.

People who practice Islam are called muslims... so we need to openly do whatever... meaning we don't do it now? I know people that practice Islam are called Muslims...what is wrong with the term I used?

NO-not meaning that at all-meaning that maybe the leaders could do whatever version of " excoimmunication" there is in Islam.....

Even if it were by a small amount-it's something.

So right now we're doing nothing, not even a small amount?

NO-I meant even if it altered people's PERCEPTION by a small amount that would be of some benefit to the erroneous perceptions some have of Islam.

One more thing-when the respected leaders and scholars are not " out there " openly and loudly condemning these actions, then alot of people infer that their silence ( or perceived silence) implies agreement with said actions of terrorists-

We are silent on the matter? In comparison to the coverage given to the "bad guys" and considering there are 1.5 billion " good Muslims" in the world.

Right Kezzie; however, religious leaders on both sides openly condemned the actions of the terrorists that were operating under their " religious umbrella". The Catholic Church condemned the actions of the Catholic terrorists as did the Protestant church,

In other words, those christian sects did speak out against it but we muslims do not? Please do not put words in my mouth. I do not need your " in other words" which are purely there to inflame this whole thing. I was not argumentative with you! I did not twist your words-I actually agreed and supported some of what you said, VP.

Who says that muslims and scholars / religious leaders do not openly condemn terrorism?

No one said that.

You did or implied it above. At lest that is how I read it.

NO! I did NOT! I am old enough, VP to articulate exactly what I mean .

Clearly you misunderstood a couple of things here-let me clarify for you I do not hold every Muslim responsible for the acts of those that clearly do not hold the same beliefs as the true Muslims! Please tell me what is wrong with my views as I expressed them? Not the way YOU chose to read them? I was actually agreeing with you on a couple of points!!!!! Go back to your first post on this thread!

Anyway--I really have to go-couldn't resist responding ( my bad)