Anti-EPA House Votes To Let Agribusiness Dump Pesticides In Our Water

[JohnSmith2007 353]

As I stated, there are some chemical causes for obesity as well as lifestyle choices. Research: Endocrine disrupting chemicals...

And you are saying this is associated with farming chemicals? I would have to see the study for that before I give it any credibility. You have a link?

[JohnSmith2007 353]

Food stamp expenditures currently total $70 billion per year - practically a rounding error in a $3.8 trillion budget.

Triple the food prices and watch that triple. Remember, food stamps are a state run program. This would hit states that cannot deal with what they have already.

[mawilson 2,133]

You know, I usually liked the things you say. I usually came down on the side of the wealthy. However, if your attitude is common among the rich I think I will modify my opinions. You are self centered and have no compassion for those that have less than you.

John, how am I self-centered? I'm saying we have enough money to help anyone who needs help. We can afford $70 billion today, you really think $140 billion would push us over the edge?

Keep in mind that wages trickle up as well - if people start paying fair prices for their food, a lot of poor people will have more money in their pockets. Workers will earn fair wages and producers will get fair prices for their produce.

[mawilson 2,133]

Do you also think rent and winter heating are also priced to low?

No, I think energy should be produced as cheaply as possible, while protecting the environment.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

If they were worried about health care costs, they would actively support anti-obesity campaigns.

How do you figure? Death averages about the same for everybody. Keeping people alive is what costs money. The sooner they die, when the taxpayer is footing the bill, the more money we save. Insurance companies have an incentive to keep you alive, so that you can continue paying premiums. Get rid of the insurance companies and people will die quicker.

[Zero Sum 305]

And you are saying this is associated with farming chemicals? I would have to see the study for that before I give it any credibility. You have a link?

No problem- did a quick search for you from different angles all originating in Wikipedia:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/303/5655/226

Marine Pollution Bulletin

Volume 56, Issue 5, May 2008, Pages 927-940

Mead MN 2009. Programmed Obesity?: Study Links Intrauterine Exposures to Higher BMI in Toddlers. Environ Health Perspect 117:A33-A33.

Etc. like:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrazine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinclozolin

[Zero Sum 305]

How do you figure? Death averages about the same for everybody. Keeping people alive is what costs money. The sooner they die, when the taxpayer is footing the bill, the more money we save. Insurance companies have an incentive to keep you alive, so that you can continue paying premiums. Get rid of the insurance companies and people will die quicker.

I thought the recent GOP complaints about health care costs were separate of their insurance company supporters.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I thought the recent GOP complaints about health care costs were separate of their insurance company supporters.

Both parties fall into that trap. Think Connecticut, New York, Delaware, and even Texas.

Politicians and insurance companies go together like Crisco and plastic sheets. Check out the boards for the various companies, and it reads like a veritable who-is-whose of ex-wifes and mistresses for the elite and former elite of the Beltway.

[Zero Sum 305]

They sure do.

[JohnSmith2007 353]

John, how am I self-centered? I'm saying we have enough money to help anyone who needs help. We can afford $70 billion today, you really think $140 billion would push us over the edge?

Keep in mind that wages trickle up as well - if people start paying fair prices for their food, a lot of poor people will have more money in their pockets. Workers will earn fair wages and producers will get fair prices for their produce.

There will always be the 30% or so that live at or below the poverty line. Long ago I was very poor, raising 3 kids while going to school and I had to use food stamps for a short time. It didn't really cover what we needed to keep food on the table. We had to resort to Catholic Charities and food banks to supplement the stamps. As soon as we could we stopped the stamps but for a long time food took a huge portion of our budget. If food prices doubled or tripled we could not have fed our kids and gone to school at the same time. I suspect I would still be poor and on government assistance today. The impact of a tripling of food prices may not seem like a big deal to you but it would be for a lot of people. I dispute your premise that wages would trickle up to the lower classes, it would just serve to increase the public charity rolls and hold them there longer. Even now that I am earning 70K+ food still takes up a large portion of my wages. It is true that I could absorb those costs but I would not be able to save for my retirement. The money would go to food rather than my 401(k) and my IRA. I want the cheapest food we can get. I am in favor of sensible regulations of farming chemicals but I absolutly do not want to eliminate them. Without modern farming we could not support our population and many people in other countries would starve. The trade off is to great.

[JohnSmith2007 353]

No problem- did a quick search for you from different angles all originating in Wikipedia:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/303/5655/226

This is talking about dioxin and PCB's in fish, not farming chemicals. Industrial polution is a whole other subject.

Marine Pollution Bulletin

Volume 56, Issue 5, May 2008, Pages 927-940

Mead MN 2009. Programmed Obesity?: Study Links Intrauterine Exposures to Higher BMI in Toddlers. Environ Health Perspect 117:A33-A33.

Etc. like:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrazine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinclozolin

Both Atrazine and Vinclozolin have short half lives of less than a year. Vinclozolin is a fungiside use on grapes and is not widely used elswhere. The link between them and obesity is casual at best. There is no conclusive proof that one causes the other. Still, even if there is a small causality between the two what is worse, not being able to feed our population or the small posibility that they cause obesity?

[JohnSmith2007 353]

John, how am I self-centered? I'm saying we have enough money to help anyone who needs help. We can afford $70 billion today, you really think $140 billion would push us over the edge?

Keep in mind that wages trickle up as well - if people start paying fair prices for their food, a lot of poor people will have more money in their pockets. Workers will earn fair wages and producers will get fair prices for their produce.

Now that I have thought about this a little more I have a few more points. Right now, modern farming is the only way to produce enough food from our airable land. If we switched to organic farming we would not be able to produce enough food to feed everyone at any price. To go back to organic farming AND have prices that require us to us 49% of our income on food we would have to have a population like we did in 1901. What you want just isn't posible unless of course you are advocating some sort of a population reduction here in the USA and to just tell the other countries to ####### off when they need our food.

[mawilson 2,133]

If we switched to organic farming we would not be able to produce enough food to feed everyone at any price. To go back to organic farming AND have prices that require us to us 49% of our income on food we would have to have a population like we did in 1901.

I'm sorry but that's just not true. In developed countries, yields on organic and conventional farms are almost equal.

[JohnSmith2007 353]

I'm sorry but that's just not true. In developed countries, yields on organic and conventional farms are almost equal.

Show me any country that can support its population on organic farming. Please make it with the same acre of airable land per person ratio. America is a big place with a lot of people. We also feed a good portion of the world that will starve without us. If you can show me we can do all that, with the land we have, using organic methods and at a price the poor can afford then I will admit I am wrong.

[mawilson 2,133]

Show me any country that can support its population on organic farming.

Many countries can and do.

Percentage of organic farms per continent:

Latin America: 31%

Europe: 27%

Asia: 21%

Africa: 18%

North America: 2%

Oceania: 1%

Pretty pathetic, eh?