Question on the age from yesterday

[crow_dio 0]

SirLance,

As someone who posted the other day about this same issue and maybe brought some of these issues to the forum, at least in the past day or two, I feel compelled to respond to your emotional response.

You people are pretty sick! I'm not going to be PC about this.

I imagine that you are assuming everyone here is significantly older than their prospective fiance who is a minor of age 17. I mean, a 19 year-old male trying to get a K1 for his 17 year-old female fiance isn't "pretty sick" in any way, right? Going forward with that assumption, I don't see where the posters in this thread gave their ages, but correct me if I just missed where they stated this. I just want to be fair to the posters of this thread if, in fact, your statement is due to an age discrepancy, which is the only potentially "sick" part by Western standards that I can see. I mean the 19 year-old and 17 year-old may be gambling or unwise but "sick"? I don't see that.

Of all the women to marry abroad, you have to find minors to marry? That's sick!

I may be one of the "sick" people you were referring to because I am a 27 year-old male and my fiance is a 17 year-old female. I am from the US, as I imagine you are, and we would call this "sick", wouldn't we? At least we could probably agree that it's definitely not the norm in my home country. Obviously, we disagree on the "sick" part. What I think you should understand for your future generalizations, at least in my particular case, is that I did not go on sampling mission "of all the women to marry abroad" and "find a minor to marry." I actually fell in love with my fiance over a period of about two months within which she lied to me and told me she was 19. Yeah, ever heard of that little trick? I couldn't blame her though. If I knew she was only 17, I probably would have been gone and never given us a chance, which is why she lied. But I wasn't given that chance and I am extremely happy at this point that I wasn't. My point is that not everyone asking these questions is on a trip abroad to "find" a wife. The world's hardly ever black and white so ease up on the stereotypes.

The IMBRA is a stupid law in many regards, but what it failed to include was a section on the strict restriction of any K-1 petitions for a minor (under 18).

There should absolutely be a stipulation which would require the beneficiary of a K-1 visa to be 18 at the time of application by the petitioner. Frankly I'd support an age requirement of 21 but that wouldn't stand on appeal of the law, as 18 year olds are considered legal and an adult free to marry. But certainly for under 18 beneficiaries, they should not even allow petitioners to file the K-1.

I agree completely with this statement. It not only makes it crystal clear for the applicant, but, more importantly, protects minors from exploitation. An 18 year old is not a minor. If the application had these obvious remarks, we wouldn't need to even bring these issues up in a forum as such. We could then shield our own personal stories from the persecution of the guessing public. In my particular case, I will file for my K1 application when my fiance is 18.

No politically correct BS from me. I hope all your petitions are DENIED!

I must say that it would seem to me that your opinion here is the exception in this forum. Or even if it's not, maybe opinions such as this just aren't useful to the exchange of information. Maybe I am wrong, I am new to this whole thing. But what I do feel is that most of the responses respect the particular situations of the posters and restrain assumption. I take it quite personally that you hope my petition is denied and I imagine your rebuttal will emphasize how much you don't care. I just hope that the generalizations do not discourage discourse here.

[keith88gt 0]

So i am wondering if it was approved by the USCIS then does that mean her age is not a factor? or if it was would it not have been approved by the USCIS right?In my state if the person wanting to get married and is under 18 they only need parental consent and then they can legally marry,which my fiancee has.

As far as US laws and USCIS regulations are concerned yes, your fiancee may be eligible to marry at 17. But you and Irish will also deal with the Manila embassy who will make sure that you are compliant with both US and Philippine laws.

I am wondering if at the interview will it be a problem?..she will have the signed affidavit of parental consent with her then..any ideas or do you think it will be fine?

Yes, it will be a problem. As far as the US embassy is concerned, Irish will not be compliant with Philippine law. Art. 35, Chapter 3 of the Family Code of the Philippines, states that x x x “The following marriage shall be void from the beginning: (1) those contracted by any party below eighteen years of age even with the consent of parents or guardians. Here’s the link: http://www.chanrobles.com/executiveorderno209.htm

True you’re not marrying here but in the US and she would have turned 18 then. But Philippine law and our Immigration officers will prevent your fiancee from departing the country for purposes of marriage until she's 18. She will not pass CFO seminar which is a requirement for departure. Moreover, a 17 year old cannot travel alone without Dept. of Social Welfare & Dev. clearance. So she will be needing clearances from two govt. agencies, CFO and DSWD, and I guarantee you, both clearances will be denied.

The affidavit was signed and notorized by a judge in Somboan, I also have done this through a laywer who told me that was all she needed was a signed and notorized consent from her parents.

I assume you spoke t o a US lawyer who is not familiar with Philippine marriage law? At any rate, judges and lawyers make mistakes and they can be charged with gross negligence of the law. Even if consent was given, our law says such consent is void. We cannot argue with written law.

Best thing to do under the circumstances is to delay the interview until after she turns eighteen. Wait a few more months. This will give you at least a fighting chance.

The next issue that the embassy would be looking at is the age difference between you and your fiancee. If there is a huge gap, better prepare yourself to prove bona fide relationship. It will be tough.

Good luck, Keith!

Hi, thanks for the response,

Irish already has her DSWD clearence and as far as the CFO he father will be attending that with her.She also already has her passport.The fact that she is 17 now shouldnt stop the approval because we have 90 days to marry and by then she will be 18 so I dont see why they would deny her a visa to come here to marry,its not like we are gonna be married when she is still 17.Also id like to say that she told me she was 20 when we first started chatting and I didnt find out she was 17 until after i got back from my 1st visit and started the paperwork for the K-1..she had to fess up after she went to get a ceritfied copy of here birth certificate, but by then i am already in love and had proposed and had retained a K-1 law firm to do the processing.The lawyer knew she was 17 and said it would not be a problem as long as she has an affidavit of parental consent..he would not have taken the case if he thought for any reason it would be denied because they have a money back garuntee if they cant get her the visa.I just spoke to him and he said there is nothing to worry about she will be approved.

[Pinay Wife 47]

Irish already has her DSWD clearence and as far as the CFO he father will be attending that with her.

The DSWD clearance that Irish has right now is valid for obtaining the passport. She may have to obtain another one if and when she leaves the country and that’s when the issue of the forthcoming marriage will come up. If the DSWD is diligent, they will catch this right away, if not, then I guess it’s your lucky day. But then again, there are still three government agencies that she will have to deal with, the CFO, the Embassy and our Immigration. If she is able to walk away from all of them, then good for you.

The fact that she is 17 now shouldnt stop the approval because we have 90 days to marry and by then she will be 18 so I dont see why they would deny her a visa to come here to marry,its not like we are gonna be married when she is still 17.

That is precisely the point. The fact that she is 17 now makes her ineligible to receive a visa regardless of whether you're marrying at a later time. She is 17 now and that's all they will see. As soon as the embassy calculates her age, they would surely scrutinize her case a bit more.

The lawyer knew she was 17 and said it would not be a problem as long as she has an affidavit of parental consent..he would not have taken the case if he thought for any reason it would be denied because they have a money back garuntee if they cant get her the visa.I just spoke to him and he said there is nothing to worry about she will be approved.

Remember, Irish is still on Philippine soil and the State has a duty to protect her. By operation of law, the parental consent she obtained is null and void until she is 18. The US Embassy will make sure that both US and Philippine law are complied with.

No lawyer in his right mind would say that a case is not winnable. And did he put that money-back-guarantee in writing? You'd better get that in writing.

You have a lawyer and you have read through all the good advice here. In the end, it all boils down to you making the final decision. I can only hope for the best for you. Good luck again.

Edited September 6, 2006 by PatientlyWaiting

[missy_antha 0]

I'm sorry but I agree with Sir Lancelot. Whenever I've visited Thailand the average 17 year old appears a lot more niave than your average american teenager.

You guys want to take these nieve children who have only ever lived with their parents and then bring them to a foreign country with no family or friends around them?

I know when I was 18 the person I was then is completely different to the one I am now. I was still a child even though I did leave home at 18 I still missed my parents and went home nearly every other weekend.

Luckily I wasn't in a foreign country, where this wasn't possible.

I don't think that these girls should be able to enter this process untill they are 21 either as I think that is when you go from being a girl to becoming a woman.

Or is it a girl that you want??

[G&C 0]

I'm sorry but I agree with Sir Lancelot. Whenever I've visited Thailand the average 17 year old appears a lot more niave than your average american teenager.

You guys want to take these nieve children who have only ever lived with their parents and then bring them to a foreign country with no family or friends around them?

I know when I was 18 the person I was then is completely different to the one I am now. I was still a child even though I did leave home at 18 I still missed my parents and went home nearly every other weekend.

Luckily I wasn't in a foreign country, where this wasn't possible.

I don't think that these girls should be able to enter this process untill they are 21 either as I think that is when you go from being a girl to becoming a woman.

Or is it a girl that you want??

[i think you could have made your point equally well without the last question]

The rule for Thailand is this: subtract 10 years. I wouldn't necesarrilty generalize about them being naive, just that emotional maturity takes longer. I believe this is still the case and I still, in general, deduct 10 years for this.

Personally, I don't think we should rush to judgement in regards to this person's decision, just as I wouldn't want someone to do it to me/us. In thailand, although this is a moot point for me by a long shot, the age of consent is 15; but there is a long history as to why this is the case. This doesn't mean one ought to rush out and marry someone when they are 18 either.

I would recommend waiting until she is 18. You wil prevent an awful lot of headaches!

Good luck, you will need your share.

.

[mj1987 0]

I think you are being poorly served by your lawyer. No competent lawyer will guarantee results. As PW said I hope you have the guarantee in writing, which I doubt, because in most states you cannot sue for legal malpractice unless a guarantee is in writting and as I say no competent lawyer will make such a foolish guarantee.

What is the guarantee...to give your fee back? Well fine but what about all the time you have wasted going down this path. The law is quite clear you are not entitled to the visa until she is free to marry and she is not free to marry until she is 18. You might direct your lawyers attention to FAM 41.81 and the notes, but get the guarantee in writing first

[missy_antha 0]

In the UK the age of consent is 16. You can also get married at 16 with parental consent.

Therefore bravo to the Phillipines for saying 18yrs is the limit

However all I am trying to say is the person you are in your teenage years is normally very different to the one you become in your 20s and 30s. As it should be

When you are a teenager you should be worry free and out for fun. You have the rest of your life to behave like a responsable adult and also the rest of your life to become a wife.

I don't know any of my friends or collegues who are still married if they got married as a teenager.

I know there are married couples out there who are still together however most of these are childhood sweethearts from the same towns and who do not have to overcome culture, language and homesickness barriers.

This is only my thoughts and I hope I haven't p***ed you off

[Alex+R 0]

This thread made me want to vomit. I wonder what kind of equal partnership you're all going to have with your foreign child brides.

Thank god at least IMBRA will protect them somewhat.

:Prepares for the flames:

[SirLancelot 1]

This thread made me want to vomit. I wonder what kind of equal partnership you're all going to have with your foreign child brides.

Thank god at least IMBRA will protect them somewhat.

:Prepares for the flames:

crow_dio, as you can see, I'm clearly NOT in the minority. I supsect many haven't posted because they don't want to be involved in a flame war.

If you were 19 marrying a 17 year old, I wouldn't have a big problem with that. But 27 with a 17 year old? You bet your ####### I have a problem with that. What about at age 25, woud you have married a 15 year old? Or at age 23, would you have married a 13 year old?

Pleading that the girl tricked you and lied about her age is the #1 reason all lawyers use to defend their clients. I notice another poster doing the same thing as you using the exact same reason. I wonder why there are so many young girls out there lying about their age to marry older men? That's a bit odd, don't you think?

[Kez/JWolf 6]

I think you should leave this child alone..... that is what she is a CHILD..... every teanager I have ever met from the Philippines is very young in appearance... lets be honest here I bet she looks about 12 years old... she probibly has not finished going through puberty yet...

Let her grow up become a woman and then let her choose where she wants to be...

Kezzie

[bebop + rocksteady 0]

Phew. Married at 17. I can't even imagine. I couldn't even do my own laundry at 17, let alone be a good wife.

Cass (bebop the great)

[TracyTN 237]

Age and maturity issues aside - based on what some other folks going through Manila have told you, it sounds like you're going to have a problem if the visa interview takes place before she is 18. I know its easier on you to believe what your lawyer (who you are paying) tells you, but you're not doing yourself any favors by ignoring the facts.

I'd see if there is any way you can postpone the interview until she has turned 18.

[Pinay Wife 47]

This thread made me want to vomit. I wonder what kind of equal partnership you're all going to have with your foreign child brides.

crow_dio, as you can see, I'm clearly NOT in the minority. I supsect many haven't posted because they don't want to be involved in a flame war.

Foreign child-brides? Almost all US states allow marriage to 16-year old kids. Alabama and Utah even allow a 14-year old child to marry! And in Kansas, 12 years old can marry! Wait while I go vomit... http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/Table_Marriage.htm#k

IMBRA protects the foreign brides but what about their own?

Edited September 7, 2006 by PatientlyWaiting

[William33 110]

Ouch, we do have a problem in our own backyard. No wonder the divorce rate exceeds 50% here.

Bad choices by legislators; and more importantly, bad choices by the parties to be married.

In other news: The divorce statistics will continue to rise....

This thread made me want to vomit. I wonder what kind of equal partnership you're all going to have with your foreign child brides.

crow_dio, as you can see, I'm clearly NOT in the minority. I supsect many haven't posted because they don't want to be involved in a flame war.

Foreign child-brides? Almost all US states allow marriage to 16-year old kids. Alabama and Utah even allow a 14-year old child to marry! And in Kansas, 12 years old can marry! Wait while I go vomit... http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/Table_Marriage.htm#k

IMBRA protects the foreign brides but what about their own?

[Jamaica to CT 0]

Foreign child-brides? Almost all US states allow marriage to 16-year old kids. Alabama and Utah even allow a 14-year old child to marry! And in Kansas, 12 years old can marry! Wait while I go vomit... http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/Table_Marriage.htm#k

IMBRA protects the foreign brides but what about their own?

You hit that right on the head.