Stossel: No Group Has Had More Gov't Help Than American Indians

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

How many treaties did native american's break?

Geronimo broke several. Native Americans are not particularly known for keeping their word to even each other. Things change.

Edited March 25, 2011 by Some Old Guy

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Geronimo broke several. Native Americans are not particularly known for keeping their word to even each other. Things change.

I'd break treaties, too, if I could have my freedom instead.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Agreed! Now only if the Indians could take back from the government what was theirs

Mmmm.... Indians on horseback with rifles, taking hostages and returning them in exchange for increasing the borders of each reservation... Ah heck, just demand Vermont from the government and create a single sovereign territory. If their demands are not met, they are returning hostages heads by thousands. Woohoo! That would be some event.

Seriously now. Not depending on government is great. But how do you suggest a nation take from US government instead of being "given", when such nation is diluted, outnumbered and all resources are already taken away? They are at the mercy, they are a minority both in number and in wealth. It is not possible to go back in time.

So why not tell the government to "stuff it" and live independently? What did they "have" that the government took? Freedom? Independence? Why not just take it back? Tear up the welfare check and send it back. Refuse to go to a doctor where the government says to go. Live where you want, not where you are told. There is no need for hostages to live independently. Just do it.

I'd break treaties, too, if I could have my freedom instead.

I have my freedom and didn't break any treaties. Just live free. Get the job you want, live where you want, raise your family as you want. What's the problem?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Indians didn't repeat their sins on six continents.

And what?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

And what?

Did we white folks miss one?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

So, following your logic, Whites and Natives aren't equally noble. Whites are less noble since they sin on a larger scale just because they can.

And, they didn't have toilet paper back then either. They didn't even like to bathe.

And what?

Most native north American Indians are neither native nor North American, they are Asian. They got here before the Europeans and fought over the place. Then they lost it to Europeans. Time to get over it and get on with life. Pick themselves up and live independent lives with pride and dignity. Stop taking the handouts of the evil white man. Stop allowing children to become alcoholics with no drinking ages on reservations...for that matter get off the damn reservation!

Did we white folks miss one?

Australia.

Edited March 26, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[Danno 1,228]

So, following your logic, Whites and Natives aren't equally noble. Whites are less noble since they sin on a larger scale just because they can.

First of all, I never used the word "sin".

Secondly, have you heard of even one instance of .......one tribe compensating another for taking... their land, their women or anything at all?

Thirdly, it might just be Natures law that the strong dominate the weaker.

According to Darwin followers "we are no more than complex animals"..... isn't this what the animal kingdom teaches?

How many treaties did native american's break?

Many. Why do you think the concept of "co-existance" wore thin?

[Dakine10 5,452]

Geronimo broke several. Native Americans are not particularly known for keeping their word to even each other. Things change.

Things do change and both sides often ignored treaties. The thing is though, those treaties are not historical articles. They survive legal challenges to their validity all the time. They are still in effect.

The native Americans were already at a disadvantage when these treaties were originally negotiated. They got the short end of the stick from the get go. I don't begrudge them anything they are legally entitled to. They gave up a lot to get it.

A trend that is being seen more and more is for tribes to use that money to buy back and consolodate parts of their ancestral land under tribal management. That is the way to go, IMO. The native Americans couldn't keep their lands peacfully, and they couldn't keep it by fighting for it. Perhaps they have finally figured out a way.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

That is what my childrens Tribe is doing, buying back their checkerboarded Reservation a piece at a time. There are indeed a ton of problems, but on even the most impoverished Reservations there are at least some, if not many quality individuals working hard to make things better, restore lost land, lost culture, and working hard to restore lost individuals.

Some of the folks on here seem to have no clue what the treaties mean. There is no single history. Different Tribes had some very different experiences. And I personally know a lot of very successful Native Americans. I know quite a few lost souls as well, but there are a lot of good folks working hard to help them.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

White folks didn't miss exploiting the aborigines of Australia, Gary. Crack open a history book.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Did anyone bother to look up the Cobell Trust? I worked on that one too.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

White folks didn't miss exploiting the aborigines of Australia, Gary. Crack open a history book.

It was a joke. Where is BY when you need him?

Did anyone bother to look up the Cobell Trust? I worked on that one too.

Why does anyone need to "work on" anything? Why can't Indians just live free and independent lives like the rest of us?

[rika60607 215]

Sounds easy enough if you think that Native Indians had the same life style as the european white people. They didn't. They did not work jobs, paid mortgages and buy houses. They hunted and did not pay for licenses to do it (but went to fight with the neighbour tribe over hunting rights), they built their tepees where there was a free piece of land and then moved next season. Free piece of land (is there such thing in the US anymore?)was the one where another tribe was not currently sitting.

If they tear up that welfare check and start going to their own healers instead of doctors, they still can not do what they used to do. Government will be there to tell them that they are to obey the white man laws (or go to prison).

If you do not want them to have anything incoming from the government, why should they follow the laws or the lifestyle of the invaders? Thus they have to have their own land with their own chiefs setting up the laws. This land can't be wastelands of Oklahoma, either, because that was a government handout in exchange for good land and delay of immediate extermination.

So, are you willing to give up your life in Vermont peacefully if Indians decide that's the land they choose? (You have to recognize that the line of ownership for the land your house is standing goes back to the Indians and that land (most likely) was illegally taken from them, thus technically, it's a stolen property).

Didn't think so.

So why not tell the government to "stuff it" and live independently? What did they "have" that the government took? Freedom? Independence? Why not just take it back? Tear up the welfare check and send it back. Refuse to go to a doctor where the government says to go. Live where you want, not where you are told. There is no need for hostages to live independently. Just do it.

I have my freedom and didn't break any treaties. Just live free. Get the job you want, live where you want, raise your family as you want. What's the problem?

They are not like you nor do they want to be like you. That's the problem. And I am amazed that you feel free. Vermont must be a nice place with no parking enforcement, no taxes (US or local), no driving, gun or fishing licenses. Or may be your freedom is just an illusion because you conformed to the box that government gave you, so well that you no longer notice it?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Sounds easy enough if you think that Native Indians had the same life style as the european white people. They didn't. They did not work jobs, paid mortgages and buy houses. They hunted and did not pay for licenses to do it (but went to fight with the neighbour tribe over hunting rights), they built their tepees where there was a free piece of land and then moved next season. Free piece of land (is there such thing in the US anymore?)was the one where another tribe was not currently sitting.

If they tear up that welfare check and start going to their own healers instead of doctors, they still can not do what they used to do. Government will be there to tell them that they are to obey the white man laws (or go to prison).

If you do not want them to have anything incoming from the government, why should they follow the laws or the lifestyle of the invaders? Thus they have to have their own land with their own chiefs setting up the laws. This land can't be wastelands of Oklahoma, either, because that was a government handout in exchange for good land and delay of immediate extermination.

So, are you willing to give up your life in Vermont peacefully if Indians decide that's the land they choose? (You have to recognize that the line of ownership for the land your house is standing goes back to the Indians and that land (most likely) was illegally taken from them, thus technically, it's a stolen property).

Didn't think so.

They are not like you nor do they want to be like you. That's the problem. And I am amazed that you feel free. Vermont must be a nice place with no parking enforcement, no taxes (US or local), no driving, gun or fishing licenses. Or may be your freedom is just an illusion because you conformed to the box that government gave you, so well that you no longer notice it?

Right on. I guess this means we stop donating money to them so that they can "live more freely".

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]