Fact: Bush Had 2 Times More Coalition Partners in Iraq Than Obama Has in Libya

[james&olya 1,121]

This is the same UN that invited Ahmadinejad as a guest speaker ? That UN ?

Yep, that would be the one! As with any political body much of what happens there alternates between comedy and tragedy! But what other 'UN' do you have in mind? Or do you advocate we continue trying to unilaterally police the world? Or withdraw completely from it? What realistic option do we have? It is easy to criticize, harder to offer reasoned and thoughtful alternatives to actually improve things.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

This is the same UN that invited Ahmadinejad as a guest speaker?

Last I looked, Iran was a member nation to the UN. Being a member to the organization, Iran subjects itself to the decisions of the Security Council of which it is not a member. The Security Council is what we're talking about - that is where decisions such as the Libya no-fly zone are made and that is a place where I don't remember Ahmadinejad speaking. Not as a guest or in any other capacity. The general assembly is quite different - all members get to speak there. And they are not really guests. They're members.

Edited March 22, 2011 by Mr. Big Dog

[JohnSmith2007 353]

Got your facts all twisted, bro. Germany wasn't and isn't in any position to block any action in the UN Security Council. Only the five permanent members (US, China, Russia, UK and France) have the ability to block action supported by a majority of the 15 total (5 permanent and 10 non-permanent) members. This is why you'll be hard pressed to find any Security Council resolutions against any of the 5 permanent members - there've been a few instances were procedural maneuvering resulted in such resolutions but I think you can count them comfortably on one hand. Now, the only two members on the Security Council that would have voted for an Iraq invasion mandate were the US and the UK. The other three were opposed. Turns out that the other three had it right while the US and UK had it all wrong.

Ok, I was wrong about Germany. Everything else though I stand behind. If France hadn't have been cheating on the oil for food program they would have voted for it. Russia and China would have abstained and Bush would have had his mandate.

Let me repeat this again, I thought both Iraq and now Libya were mistakes. But a greater case could be made for taking Saddam out than MG. Saddam had a history of attacking other countries. Saddam was even more brutal with his own people. Saddam even used WMD's on the Kurds. MG is a terrible dictator but he does not hold a candle to Saddam. Please explain to me why MG deserves our attention while Saddam did not.

[JohnSmith2007 353]

Yep, that would be the one! As with any political body much of what happens there alternates between comedy and tragedy! But what other 'UN' do you have in mind? Or do you advocate we continue trying to unilaterally police the world? Or withdraw completely from it? What realistic option do we have? It is easy to criticize, harder to offer reasoned and thoughtful alternatives to actually improve things.

The UN is useless and we should kick them out of NY. We should withdraw all support and ignore anything they say. We should not be policing the world and we absolutly should not be the UN's muscle. Our military should be used to protect the US. Nothing more.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The UN is useless and we should kick them out of NY. We should withdraw all support and ignore anything they say. We should not be policing the world and we absolutly should not be the UN's muscle. Our military should be used to protect the US. Nothing more.

International isolationism is a rather naive view.

[JohnSmith2007 353]

International isolationism is a rather naive view.

Using our military at the whim of a bunch of self serving bureaucrats from other contries is stupid. Let them spend the money and risk their own peoples lives if they want to police the world. We have no skin in Libya. Why should we foot the bill and risk our soldiers lives?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Using our military at the whim of a bunch of self serving bureaucrats from other contries is stupid. Let them spend the money and risk their own peoples lives if they want to police the world. We have no skin in Libya. Why should we foot the bill and risk our soldiers lives?

They already do.

[JohnSmith2007 353]

They already do.

Good, then they don't need us.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Good, then they don't need us.

The world is safer with an international community that works together. I doubt anyone wants to return to the imperialism of the 19th century.

[JohnSmith2007 353]

The world is safer with an international community that works together. I doubt anyone wants to return to the imperialism of the 19th century.

I am tired of being the worlds police department. That does not mean we must return to the imerialism of the 19'th century. Staw man argument.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I am tired of being the worlds police department. That does not mean we must return to the imerialism of the 19'th century. Staw man argument.

I doubt you do the heavy lifting to get quite so worked up about it as you are.

You have literally no conception of what the world would be like if major economic-military powers became isolationist enclaves. It's incredibly short-sighted.

[JohnSmith2007 353]

I doubt you do the heavy lifting to get quite so worked up about it as you are.

You have literally no conception of what the world would be like if major economic-military powers became isolationist enclaves. It's incredibly short-sighted.

And you are the expert at what the world would be like? It must be fun to be a world famous political expert. And as a matter of fact I do my share of the heavy lifting. I was in the military, my brothers were in the military and my taxes pay for todays military. If you like it so much then why don't you join up and go fight?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

And you are the expert at what the world would be like? It must be fun to be a world famous political expert. And as a matter of fact I do my share of the heavy lifting. I was in the military, my brothers were in the military and my taxes pay for todays military. If you like it so much then why don't you join up and go fight?

All this post proves is that you aren't able to discuss political topics without getting over-emotional.

[JohnSmith2007 353]

All this post proves is that you aren't able to discuss political topics without getting over-emotional.

No, I was responding to your attack that I have no conception of what the world would be like and your suggestion that I don't have anything to say about how our military is used. Step back and look at the snarky and dismissive way you argue. You don't want to discuss, all you want to do is act like you know it all. Guess what, you don't.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No, I was responding to your attack that I have no conception of what the world would be like and your suggestion that I don't have anything to say about how our military is used. Step back and look at the snarky and dismissive way you argue. You don't want to discuss, all you want to do is act like you know it all. Guess what, you don't.

Saying that the US can pack up and leave the UN without any consideration of the consequences (for the US and the rest of the world) isn't an attack. If you think it is, you're being incredibly oversensitive.

And now you're personalising yet another thread - because you can't separate your personal feelings from the subject at hand.