Tired woman here!

[Golden Gate 530]

I hope that this doesn't come across condescending or harmful. I have been reading this thread for the last few days and my heart aches every time I read it. I say this to you with all of the good wishes and love that an internet stranger can give, and I truly wish you and your daughter peace in your process, wherever it takes you.

Great post!

[Nasturtium 500]

You're probably right, but I can't help but notice that I've read this story on VJ what seems like a million times, but have never encountered it amongst "real life" friends. Maybe just different circles? Maybe this is the sort of behavior of a "lower class", less educated man in Morocco and in the U.S. alike? Who knows...but I tend to believe that certain behaviors are more tolerated in some cultures. That's not to say that people of certain cultures are predisposed to these behaviors, rather that they are more culturally acceptable. And by culture, I mean subculture that could exist in any country.

I don't think it really has to do with class. Upper class just have a different means of escape than the lower classes and that is about affordibility. I imagine he'd be out on a yacht with his cousin if they had one as soon as be playing pool.

I think part of the problem is that the culture clash hits here. I bet if someone jacked around like this in the home country, the woman has a better chance of recourse-- in that there are social pressures that could be made. Here the guy is free from social pressures. This happens with us too though... in that the guy who is always out with his friends at a bar ends up with the locks changed and whatnot. We just know it will end in divorce.

I think perhaps this kind of behavior takes different forms in different cultures, although in some it is more common then others? Aren't there american men who spend all their time in their man cave watching sports or out at the bar with friends?

In Egyptian culture, men will often stay out late at cafes with other men talking while their wives stay home, at least from what I've observed and from what I've talked about with AbuS.

I think this is it.

he has decided to go stay with some family in another state they are going to help him get a job.. i found that out through a text to his cousin.. guess he wrote it in english so i could read it.. It really breaks my heart to know that I have been used all this time.. And my daughter is in the middle of all this! Thank God I love her and could never leave her!!

I am sorry to hear that. But maybe things are becoming more clear and you can figure out how to move forward from this instead of just treading water. And you have your daughter, which is awesome.

[Jenn! 918]

I don't think it really has to do with class. Upper class just have a different means of escape than the lower classes and that is about affordibility. I imagine he'd be out on a yacht with his cousin if they had one as soon as be playing pool.

I guess so. Maybe it's a stereotype I have that laziness, irresponsibility, and mooching is something that is more of a problem with a specific demographic.

[Nasturtium 500]

I guess so. Maybe it's a stereotype I have that laziness, irresponsibility, and mooching is something that is more of a problem with a specific demographic.

One name: Paris Hilton.

(or holy ####### Lindsay Lohan, Brittany Spears are too... lots you could pick from that lot!)

[Resha 1]

we r going to trying it for a bit.. i laid down what i needed/wanted.. we will see

[KittyPollitt 284]

we r going to trying it for a bit.. i laid down what i needed/wanted.. we will see

Oh Resha Under most circumstances I'd say you should try for the baby's sake, but not after what he's implied. That's just my opinion, take it or leave it..

[tany1157 161]

Oh Resha Under most circumstances I'd say you should try for the baby's sake, but not after what he's implied. That's just my opinion, take it or leave it..

absolutely agree!

[tany1157 161]

Maybe he found out it will be easier to remove conditions if he sticks it out with her....I don't think I trust this guy. What he said to you was degrading IMO....do what you need to do....but I would still document anything just in case...

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You're probably right, but I can't help but notice that I've read this story on VJ what seems like a million times, but have never encountered it amongst "real life" friends. Maybe just different circles? Maybe this is the sort of behavior of a "lower class", less educated man in Morocco and in the U.S. alike? Who knows...but I tend to believe that certain behaviors are more tolerated in some cultures. That's not to say that people of certain cultures are predisposed to these behaviors, rather that they are more culturally acceptable. And by culture, I mean subculture that could exist in any country.

I agree, we have read this a million times, but it makes me wonder what's going on with American women that so many will put up with this sh!t from any man, much less a man they spent tons of time and money to import only to discover he's a epic jerk.

Just sayin' . . .

[Mithra 1,185]

I don't think it's necessarily American women who put up with this sort of behavior. I'm sure there are women all over the world that put up with it but we only see the American women doing it because we're American women on this board. I agree with Julianna in that the men would get more family/social pressures to "behave" in their home countries. I know Mid Eastern men here that act a fool (men who have Mid Eastern wives) but because they are here and their families are there, they get away with more longer. Those women put up with it because they're kinda stuck here without many options and usually with a kid or two or three to take care of.

I think it's sad that the OP has devalued herself and is putting up with this behavior. I know it's because she loves her husband and isn't able to step away from the situation enough to get herself out. The husband probably got coaching both here and back home about how American women are push overs and are willing to pay for everything. He got here and low and behold - everyone was right! Life is sweet and he can manipulate his wife into feeling like a bad wife because she isn't catering to him properly. He also knows that he's stuck her with his child so she's going to do her best to hold it together for the good of the family. It's all sad. If the husband leaves that would be the best thing for her. She would be the winner in the end because she has the most precious thing - the child.

This is purely my opinion based on years of seeing this kind of story on this board.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Mithra

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

We have also seen cases here in MENA where the women clearly did NOT tolerate this type of behavior - not even for one day.

It's normal to remember the drama rather than the non-drama, so sometimes the many successful relationships may kind of get disregarded. Maybe I should make a poll ! (although it still wouldn't be anywhere near acceptible social science.)

I am not convinced that the MENA sub-forum (or even VJ at large) is a representative cross-section of American society or the attitudes of American women in general. Americans marrying foreign spouses are actually a very small segment of the U.S. population, and women marrying MENA men are an even smaller group.

But it's always fascinating to read the various subjective characterizations of *fill-in-the-blank-nationality* women (or men) which are made all across VJ (and spark endlessly entertaining discussions !) What one person perceives as common is the exact opposite of what another perceives.

I agree that for even one woman (or man !) to put up with disrespect, mistreatment, abuse, etc. from their spouse is one too many. But I agree with Mithra that the problem is not some kind of "American woman" thing.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

American women will be the topic because that is the majority here. This thread was started by an American woman who has been putting up with bad behavior and doesn't know how to stop. Non-American women are off-topic for the specifics here.

When Jenn made her comment about the men behaving badly, it triggered long held questions Ive had about American women who have more choices and freedoms than women in other countries that are not part of this equation, so mentioning them doesn't help further the discussion. If a woman is capable of taking care of herself, why put up with a man who you know is just using you? It may be something else, but it's not love that keeps her there.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Sofiyya

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

American women will be the topic because that is the majority here. This thread was started by an American woman who has been putting up with bad behavior and doesn't know how to stop. Non-American women are off-topic for the specifics here.

When Jenn made her comment about the men behaving badly, it triggered long held questions Ive had about American women who have more choices and freedoms than women in other countries that are not part of this equation, so mentioning them doesn't help further the discussion. If a woman is capable of taking care of herself, why put up with a man who you know is just using you? It may be something else, but it's not love that keeps her there.

I agree with the part about "why put up with it." I just don't agree that "putting up with it" is in any way some kind of typical "American woman" behavior, or even typical "VJ MENA woman" behavior. Most American women I know are not doormats, VJ's MENA included. There do seem to me to be a somewhat higher percentage of doormats here in the MENA forum than in the general population - but still not the majority of members, though.

Probably better to say "what's wrong with some American women," rather than "what's wrong with American women."

[Mithra 1,185]

The way you worded it made it sound like being a doormat is an exclusively American female trait. I agree that some of the women on this board or have been on this board have let themselves become doormats but a lot have not. They either nip it in the bud or eliminate the problem (the husband).

It's not purely love that's keeping her with her husband but I do believe that's what she thinks it is. Love, attachment, desire to keep her family intact, not wanting to feel like a failure, not wanting to hear I told ya so's, not wanting to feel foolish for spending time and money bringing her husband here, etc. I think it's all those things and probably more.

American women will be the topic because that is the majority here. This thread was started by an American woman who has been putting up with bad behavior and doesn't know how to stop. Non-American women are off-topic for the specifics here.

When Jenn made her comment about the men behaving badly, it triggered long held questions Ive had about American women who have more choices and freedoms than women in other countries that are not part of this equation, so mentioning them doesn't help further the discussion. If a woman is capable of taking care of herself, why put up with a man who you know is just using you? It may be something else, but it's not love that keeps her there.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I said "so many" will put up with this behavior. That means some, not all. You're right that there seem to be a lot here in MENA, but that's probably because most posters here are women bringing men over.

Coz I suck at enabling, I thought briefly about starting a thread pinned about red flag behavior, how to make good choices when looking for love and how to stop yourself when you tend to excuse ####### from men with cute accents that you wouldn't excuse otherwise. A "You know you're in trouble when . . ." thread, but I got over it lol. Wouldn't do much good for those who need it most because they're ruled by their hearts and not by their heads.