Going to Kiev in 7 days, any tips?

[baron555 934]

Why would knowing Russian make his English worse? Like I said, my mom's first language isn't English, she spoke no English at home growing up... and her English is fine.

Also, Ona's parents may not speak English, and I also don't see why spending summers in Russia would be a bad thing at all. I am just confused as to why you are attacking her for wanting her kids to know her language and homeland.

People are free to make these sorts of decisions in childrearing based on what they value and what they want for their kids. It's no one else's place to say what's wrong or right.

Don't put words into my mouth for your own use. I was not "attacking" her but just warning her (I qualified all by stating up front that I would be blunt, remember?) that by trying to place too much emphasis on the second language could result in the un-intended lessening of the primary language. I see that all too often here in the US with immigrants from Latin America and Mexico; those kids end up knowing better Spanish than English, they are clustered and cloistered away from the "normal society" of English speaking kids and they end up, virtually all of them, end up with having less of a chance of a better life, than maybe their parents intended them to.

And....it is all because of their selfish parents (harsh words yes, but true) intentions for them to not "forget where they came from".

If you don't know English, you will not have the same opportunities and those who do. Plain and simple fact.

I also remember the stories my grandfather told us small kids about how he changed the pronunciation of the family name and forbid the speaking of Italian in the house amongst the children because "We are living in the US now and we will speak English."

As Gary has stated about his experience with his boys, these are very resisiant but I don't think he places such a huge requirement of their maintenance of Russian (they seem to do it naturally).

[baron555 934]

FWIW, I don't see it being selfish at all to encourage children to learn a different language and culture. Just the opposite! What an incredible opportunity for a child! I feel that my own life has been enriched more than I ever would have imagined completely above and beyond the benefit of meeting my fiancee. I would love to have been able to give my children the opportunity that ONA describes. I hope she follows through and does it!

And I believe the same... Knowing more than one language can only yield benefits.....

but....dont' forget about the primary language and do not slack off on thst.

[eekee 182]

The difference is that there is a huge Latin@ population in the US. It is harder to self-isolate as a Russian in America, unless you move to Brighton Beach or something. My mom grew up in a Belarusian community, where all of the older people were all sitting around waiting for the Soviet Union to fall so they could go back and raised their children with the belief that one day their kids would move back to Belarus also. Number of kids my mom grew up with who were "isolated" from American culture and experienced detrimental effects from emphasis on Belarusian language and culture: zero. And these were all kids who had parents who didn't really speak English, not like in Ona's case, where her English is excellent and her fiance is a native English speaker.

I think it's sad, actually, that your grandfather forbid the speaking of Italian.

[ONA 133]

I'm going to be totally blunt with you ONA. You are coming off as being very selfish and planning on doing everything to "force" your children to learn Russian, regardless that they will be living in the US. Russian only elementary schools (good luck on finding one) and sending them back to Russia in the summers.....what about letting them live their lives as a kid and to be a kid and to have local friends so that they can grow into happy, well-adjusted young adults? Will your your parents love them any less if they don't speak perfect Russian to them? I don't think so.

Alla and I have discussed this in great depth concerning Leonid and we both feel as strongly as you do.....but we understand that he is living in the US and they speak English here and THAT will be his primary language. We would rather he have a greater command of that than any lesser command and know more Russian; we feel that by surrounding him in both languages (even though with preschool and all people he comes into everyday contact with) speak all English.

We do have Russian-class at home and he has and freely watches both English Dora and Russian Dora DVDs as well as hundreds of other Russian DVDs and childrens books Alla brought back with her.

We also realize that he himself will find his own comfort level with the languages; we don't try to force anything down his throat, 'lest we start to make it feel like he's being forced.

But......one reason why he is here (and one reason why my wife is here with me with him) is that he is being given the great opportunity to study and grow up in the US where we both feel he has more opportunities ahead of him to live a nice fulfilling life, and allow him the opportunity to make his own decisions about his future (and have some real abilities to fulfill those dreams.).

I don't think you understand the whole concept of bilingual people. I want my kids to have 2 NATIVE languages. And knowing Russian in that case would not hurt English at all. It will be just natural for them speaking 2 languages.

I am bilingual too, in a way, cause my native languages are very close and I still know Russian better than Ukrainian, but my dad and his family did a great job. Ukrainian DID NOT hurt my Russian anyhow. I actually think it improved my ability for language acquisition.

I also want my kids to know where I belong, to understand my country and to have a choice where to study, live and work. I know that some kids, raised in the USA move to Russia and I want my kids to make their choice on their own. Plus they will be able to interact with more people, to make friends both in Russian and the USA and the fact that they will be able to speak at least two languages is also a good thing.

Anyway, that's very very weird that a person, living in a multicultural society, where there are so many bilingual people. Look at Hispanic people born and raised in the USA, did their ability to speak Spanish hurt their English? I know the answer: NO.

Anyway, for you to get rid of the myths about bilingualism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_advantages_to_bilingualism

http://www.biculturalfamily.org/may06/achildsjourney.html

Also, I'm sure that my kids will be more likely to be thankful than consider me selfish. And by the way, I already know where to find Russian schools It's not that hard, just clicking a couple of keys and google finds the answer.

[ONA 133]

I see that all too often here in the US with immigrants from Latin America and Mexico; those kids end up knowing better Spanish than English, they are clustered and cloistered away from the "normal society" of English speaking kids and they end up, virtually all of them, end up with having less of a chance of a better life, than maybe their parents intended them to.

My fiance's brother-in-law is Guatemalan, who grew up in the USA. No problems with English As I said: if you know how to do it right, it works. That's why I'm doing a thorough research on that matter. I'm a linguist, after all - I know what I'm going to do and I'm aware of all the difficulties.

[baron555 934]

I don't think you understand the whole concept of bilingual people.

I probably don't.

I want my kids to have 2 NATIVE languages.

And the same for mine.

Anyway, that's very very weird that a person, living in a multicultural society, where there are so many bilingual people.

Wrong wrong wrong....the biggest divide here in the US, greater than the color of skin divide, is the ever increasing one of division of language. We are very much becoming an English or Spanish speaking country. You dont' live here, I do and I see this every day. Through rose-colored glasses, it would seem easy to become bilingual, but this country is far from that. Trust me you will see it once you come and look around.

Look at Hispanic people born and raised in the USA, did their ability to speak Spanish hurt their English? I know the answer: NO.

You know by what information? I live her, I see it, I live it. The ones that can overcome the Spanish hurdle into English have very very involved parents who also understand where to place the importance of English speaking, at least that priority for their kids. It is not automatic.

Anyway, for you to get rid of the myths about bilingualism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_advantages_to_bilingualism

http://www.biculturalfamily.org/may06/achildsjourney.html

And by the way, I already know where to find Russian schools It's not that hard, just clicking a couple of keys and google finds the answer.

Please do click for me and find Russian elementary schools in the Chicago area. You will see it is very region specific.

[eekee 182]

I lived in NYC in a Dominican neighborhood and didn't really notice kids not being able to speak English. Parents, yes, kids, no.

It's not hard to become bilingual if you're raised with both languages from birth.

[baron555 934]

Yes it is sad about my lack of Italian but those were the times back then, he and his wife gave up their life, sailed on the boat and came here only to offer a better life fir their children. He Aldo didn't want his kids yo be ridiculed in school so thus the English only. Again a sign of the times.

Yes there are many Spanush kids who can speak some English but....there are just as many who really can not. I've seen them I live near ti these types I also know many such families....because of this they will not have the same opportunities to progress their lives.

Something in ONAs first post on this just struck that sad cord in me; ONA as an educated person you obviously know and will know how to dofferentiate when it is time for English and when it us time fir Russian...trust me your kids will be fine.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

This is what happens when you people change the subject from sex and dressing hot...to something serious.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

The difference is that there is a huge Latin@ population in the US. It is harder to self-isolate as a Russian in America, unless you move to Brighton Beach or something. My mom grew up in a Belarusian community, where all of the older people were all sitting around waiting for the Soviet Union to fall so they could go back and raised their children with the belief that one day their kids would move back to Belarus also. Number of kids my mom grew up with who were "isolated" from American culture and experienced detrimental effects from emphasis on Belarusian language and culture: zero. And these were all kids who had parents who didn't really speak English, not like in Ona's case, where her English is excellent and her fiance is a native English speaker.

I think it's sad, actually, that your grandfather forbid the speaking of Italian.

You know what's really sad ekee ? What's really sad is that most Belarusians that were born and raised in Belarus don't speak Belarusian. Now that's what I consider sad.

[springfox 0]

Another kudos to our RUB brother and sisters....but Belarus.....thumbs up http://englishrussia...ret/#more-42801

Edited April 5, 2011 by springfox

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

And I believe the same... Knowing more than one language can only yield benefits.....

but....dont' forget about the primary language and do not slack off on thst.

Being comfortable with a second language and carrying a loaded gun are two things a grown man is better off being able to do. Being competent in the use of all can be useful.

This house was "English Only" for a while. And we still almost never watch any Russian language movies and have made no effort to do so. But as Pasha's English improved we now allow Russian at home and actually use it to keep him in practice and learning Russian. He gets plenty of English in school/work/friends/sports etc. Sergey speaks excellent English, also with little accent. Since he goes to college in Moscow, he gets plenty of Russian also.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yeah, I think it's harder to get kids to retain their language when everything outside the house is English than teaching them the language in the first place. My mom doesn't speak her first language all that well anymore.

Thats a shame. I would never want that for the boys. It is our sincere desire for them to have dual citizenship, speak at least three languages, (Russian Ukrainian and English at least) have masters degrees (minimum)and to provide them with every possible opportunity to have good adult lives and be good husbands and fathers.

Pasha came here when he was 13 and I do not want his Russian "stalled" at that level for al his life. Alla, being a Russian teacher by training is sure to take care of that (she is ALWAYS correcting us, especially me)

I actually do consider it just as important as any other part of his education

[slim 1,525]

Angelina Jolie had no problem speaking Russian after all those years of not speaking it. Why would any of us be any different?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Angelina Jolie had no problem speaking Russian after all those years of not speaking it. Why would any of us be any different?

I am not taking any chances