Putin proposes scrapping visas between Russia, US

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Why_Me, you might also google a whole bunch of links stating how many problems has Russia had with Belarus over the past 13 years. Yep. You just don't want it. And I'm not the one, who's going to die, but prove my point. I just know what I know - just saying that if you want to know more, do some more reading. You might get surprised finding out that Russia has gotten sick and tired of Lukashenko, cause he's played too much of foul play with Russia too.

eh? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State#Contemplated_expansion

Yep. You gotta wait for president election though, cause we don't elect the Prime Minister here.

Although, I should also say that some Americans have got to look first at what their government is doing before getting all judgemental.

LOL ? Russia has gotten so tired of Luskashenko's ####### that they even cut him a deal on oil and gas...way below market price and gave him another loan...all this just a few days before the last fraudulent elections in Belarus.

When the west including the OSCE was calling foul on every election in Belarus that Lukashenko has participated in including this last one, Russia not only called him to congratulate him on his victory, they even went as far as to criticize the OSCE... LOL ?

The difference between US elections and Russia's ? Name one time Russian's didn't know the outcome of an election before the votes were tallied ? Name one please. Russia has one leader.. Tsar Putin, the same Tsar Putin that will surely run for president next time around. But hey when you nationalize the gas and oil in Russia and call it "Gazprom", then you take the lackey who was running Gazprom aka Medvedev and make him a puppet president what do you expect ? Then to top it off the Kremlin nationalized and or bought out all three national TV channels in Russia...so who controls the news ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia <----- Yes it's wiki, but the links are at the bottom of the page, and any of these names can be "googled", yet most of them are common knowledge to anyone who has a clue to what Tsar Putin has been up to since he took power. If the US had a track record even close to this it would be complete anarchy here due to a revolution in the making.

Why is it that Russia hates Belarus so much that it not only supports the dictator running that country, but it keeps him in power ? What does Russia have against freedom in Belarus ? Do Russians really hate their neighboring Rus cousins in Belarus that much ?

Edited March 10, 2011 by Why_Me

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Why_Me, you might also google a whole bunch of links stating how many problems has Russia had with Belarus over the past 13 years. Yep. You just don't want it. And I'm not the one, who's going to die, but prove my point. I just know what I know - just saying that if you want to know more, do some more reading. You might get surprised finding out that Russia has gotten sick and tired of Lukashenko, cause he's played too much of foul play with Russia too.

eh? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State#Contemplated_expansion

Yep. You gotta wait for president election though, cause we don't elect the Prime Minister here.

Although, I should also say that some Americans have got to look first at what their government is doing before getting all judgemental.

Ah yes the "Union State"...the same idea that Luksahenko has been dangling in front of the Kremlin for years now knowing that every Russian nationalist and brainwashed NASHI member salivates at. And where will this "Union State" be ran from ? I'm going to guess it's the Kremlin seeing how most Russian nationalist think that Ukraine is still "Malorussia" and that Belarus is nothing more than a Russian Oblast. Not gonna happen. Ukraine has their own language and borders, and it's the same for Belarus. The citizens of those country's know only too well what will happen once the Kremlin takes over. It's bad enough for them already, and they don't need to go any further backwards in regards to democracy than they already have.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Why_Me

[rika60607 215]

Dude,

Russia is a country, it does not hate, does not love and has no feelings at all. Countries do not have feelings. And no, Russians as people have no hate for Belarus. As for the Russian politics, let's not pretend that foreign policy is up to Russian people. You know very well that government does whatever it wants.

Why is it that Russia hates Belarus so much that it not only supports the dictator running that country, but it keeps him in power ? What does Russia have against freedom in Belarus ? Do Russians really hate their neighboring Rus cousins in Belarus that much ?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Dude,

Russia is a country, it does not hate, does not love and has no feelings at all. Countries do not have feelings. And no, Russians as people have no hate for Belarus. As for the Russian politics, let's not pretend that foreign policy is up to Russian people. You know very well that government does whatever it wants.

Agreed 100% with what you say, and I did go to edit that part out of my post yet it wouldn't let me...it has a time thingy that gives you so much time on here to edit a post.

On the other hand... Russians should be made aware of what has and is presently going on in Belarus with the help of the Kremlin.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Ah yes the "Union State"...the same idea that Luksahenko has been dangling in front of the Kremlin for years now knowing that every Russian nationalist and brainwashed NASHI member salivates at. And where will this "Union State" be ran from ? I'm going to guess it's the Kremlin seeing how most Russian nationalist think that Ukraine is still "Malorussia" and that Belarus is nothing more than a Russian Oblast. Not gonna happen. Ukraine has their own language and borders, and it's the same for Belarus. The citizens of those country's know only too well what will happen once the Kremlin takes over. It's bad enough for them already, and they don't need to go any further backwards in regards to democracy than they already have.

My ex business partners in Minsk told me once that as the Yeltsin era came to a close, Uncle Sasha (Lukashenko) had a fair amount of leverage with the union issue. Some say he could have wound up a powerful figure in the unified country. They also said that few powerful Russians (or nationalistic ones) would agree. Lukashenko picked the wrong side, whatever that was, and Putin said he would be most happy to unify Belarus by annexing it. This would make it a Russian satellite or province of some kind, and the current government would have had to go. I don't know the truth of it, just what I was told.

[rika60607 215]

Yeah, except for Crimea (accidentally annexed by Ukraine), is there anything in Ukraine that Russia as a country would benefit from? Didn't think so.

As for Belarus, it is better off as a separate country... even with the president they got, situation there seems to be improving, so... more power to them.

.

Ah yes the "Union State"...the same idea that Luksahenko has been dangling in front of the Kremlin for years now knowing that every Russian nationalist and brainwashed NASHI member salivates at. And where will this "Union State" be ran from ? I'm going to guess it's the Kremlin seeing how most Russian nationalist think that Ukraine is still "Malorussia" and that Belarus is nothing more than a Russian Oblast. Not gonna happen. Ukraine has their own language and borders, and it's the same for Belarus. The citizens of those country's know only too well what will happen once the Kremlin takes over. It's bad enough for them already, and they don't need to go any further backwards in regards to democracy than they already have.

[rika60607 215]

That sounds about right. Luckily, Ukraine or Belarus could never be taken by Russian government by force. People (army) simply will not do that and government knows it.

My ex business partners in Minsk told me once that as the Yeltsin era came to a close, Uncle Sasha (Lukashenko) had a fair amount of leverage with the union issue. Some say he could have wound up a powerful figure in the unified country. They also said that few powerful Russians (or nationalistic ones) would agree. Lukashenko picked the wrong side, whatever that was, and Putin said he would be most happy to unify Belarus by annexing it. This would make it a Russian satellite or province of some kind, and the current government would have had to go. I don't know the truth of it, just what I was told.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

My ex business partners in Minsk told me once that as the Yeltsin era came to a close, Uncle Sasha (Lukashenko) had a fair amount of leverage with the union issue. Some say he could have wound up a powerful figure in the unified country. They also said that few powerful Russians (or nationalistic ones) would agree. Lukashenko picked the wrong side, whatever that was, and Putin said he would be most happy to unify Belarus by annexing it. This would make it a Russian satellite or province of some kind, and the current government would have had to go. I don't know the truth of it, just what I was told.

Your friends have it 100% correct. Yeltsin is the one who backed Lukashenko back in '96 with the promise that Lukashenko would sell out his country (Belarus) to Russia. What Yeltin and the Kremlin didn't realize is that Lukashenko wasn't as stupid as they were betting on. He knows if Belarus ever joins with Russia (becomes it's vassal state), that he's out the door with nothing to look forward to other than a court trail at The Hague for murder amongst many other crimes he's guilty of.

It get's even better though. After Lukashenko was voted in president the first time, the first thing he did was take his Russian trained KGB and arrest Congress, install a new Congress and then changed the Belarusian Constitution so that not only did he now have unlimited powers, but he can run for president as many times as he likes. And all this was planned in Moscow well before Lukashenko won the first time around.

So what does Luka do...he played both sides of the coin so to speak. He put the carrot of Union State in front of the Kremlin all while trying to negotiate with the West for loans. He ended up getting money from both sides...much more from Russia, but he did get a chunk of money from the EU with the promise he was going to change his wicked ways.

Luka has Russia by the b@lls and here's why. If Luka goes, a pro EU pro West government will step in his place. Russia can't have that. It already has Estonia on it's Northwest getting ready to load itself up with US made nukes, and if Belarus joins the EU it could eventually join NATO.

There's a main gas line carrying Russian gas that runs through Belarus that feeds Poland, Germany, Lithuania, etc... just like the line that goes through Ukraine. Luka has turned the taps off on this line, not once, but twice knowing he holds the cards.

To make things worse you use to see bus loads of Russian tourist in Minsk spending $$$ that most Belarusians will never make in a life time. Belarusians like the influx of money Russian tourist bring in, but they resent the Russians for this all the same...that and the Russian tourist there (not all but some) are usually loud and over bearing (condescending) to a point.

[^_^ 5,021]

Like American tourists in the islands?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Yeah, except for Crimea (accidentally annexed by Ukraine), is there anything in Ukraine that Russia as a country would benefit from? Didn't think so.

As for Belarus, it is better off as a separate country... even with the president they got, situation there seems to be improving, so... more power to them.

.

The only thing I agree with in that post is the part where Belarus is better off as a separate country.

First off the situation in Belarus hasn't got any better, it's gotten significantly worse... fianacially wise, social economics wise, and human rights wise...all have and still are getting worse by the day.

What does Ukraine have to offer Russia ? Lots. A gateway for it's navy to the Black Sea, the third largest country in Europe size wise, not to mention Ukraine isn't called "The Bread Basket of Europe" for nothing. Russia would give it's left testicle right now to have Ukraine and Belarus back in the fold. Russia doesn't back peeps like Lukashenko and Yanukovych for sh*ts and giggles.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yeah, except for Crimea (accidentally annexed by Ukraine), is there anything in Ukraine that Russia as a country would benefit from? Didn't think so.

As for Belarus, it is better off as a separate country... even with the president they got, situation there seems to be improving, so... more power to them.

.

Seems Russia was rather upset to lose the agriculture of Ukraine, once a full 20% of the food output of the USSR, the ice free ports in Odessa and Sevastopal were tough to lose, they are the only ones they had and handle much of the product coming into European Russia and the rest of eastern Europe. When I was working in the port facilities there it was rather obvious the Russians had good use for them. What about coal? Naural gas? Gas piplines? Rail transport? River transport? Aircraft factories, automobile factories, steel production? Your statement, if it is what you believe, is truly ignorant of the situation in Ukraine. Ukraine was the 2nd most populous Republic and very rich in natural resources and agriculture. It would be like saying the US has no need for the midwest, the Mississippi River and the Great lakes region. Do not be silly. Ukraine was the heart of the original Kievian Rus for good reason.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Seems Russia was rather upset to lose the agriculture of Ukraine, once a full 20% of the food output of the USSR, the ice free ports in Odessa and Sevastopal were tough to lose, they are the only ones they had and handle much of the product coming into European Russia and the rest of eastern Europe. When I was working in the port facilities there it was rather obvious the Russians had good use for them. What about coal? Naural gas? Gas piplines? Rail transport? River transport? Aircraft factories, automobile factories, steel production? Your statement, if it is what you believe, is truly ignorant of the situation in Ukraine. Ukraine was the 2nd most populous Republic and very rich in natural resources and agriculture. It would be like saying the US has no need for the midwest, the Mississippi River and the Great lakes region. Do not be silly. Ukraine was the heart of the original Kievian Rus for good reason.

There's always the Kremlin spiel about losing the Crim to Ukraine, what peeps don't see in the media is how Ukraine lost a chunk of it's territory (northeast) to Russia. When the borders were reworked during USSR times almost an entire Ukrainian Oblast ended up on the Russian side of the border.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The only thing I agree with in that post is the part where Belarus is better off as a separate country.

First off the situation in Belarus hasn't got any better, it's gotten significantly worse... fianacially wise, social economics wise, and human rights wise...all have and still are getting worse by the day.

What does Ukraine have to offer Russia ? Lots. A gateway for it's navy to the Black Sea, the third largest country in Europe size wise, not to mention Ukraine isn't called "The Bread Basket of Europe" for nothing. Russia would give it's left testicle right now to have Ukraine and Belarus back in the fold. Russia doesn't back peeps like Lukashenko and Yanukovych for sh*ts and giggles.

Not to mention both countries have the only other slavic populations that ever went along with being part of Russia for any reason. The rest of the Republics were never worth the trouble to be honest.

I was working in the port facility in Odessa during the Orange Revolution and Russia was making some very uncomfortable moves there during that time. If they had seriously thought they were going to lose the use of that port I assure you it would have been more than a noisy protest in Kiev. It never came to that, thank goodness. It was abundantly clear that Russia was going to go along with this noisy BS in Ukraine as long as they did not lose what they NEEDED from Ukraine. If they thought they were going to lose what they need, they were prepared to step on their neck.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

There's always the Kremlin spiel about losing the Crim to Ukraine, what peeps don't see in the media is how Ukraine lost a chunk of it's territory (northeast) to Russia. When the borders were reworked during USSR times almost an entire Ukrainian Oblast ended up on the Russian side of the border.

Yes. The region around Kursk was always considered a "Ukrainian" region. Kursk ended up in Russia, Kharkov in Ukraine.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Not to mention both countries have the only other slavic populations that ever went along with being part of Russia for any reason. The rest of the Republics were never worth the trouble to be honest.

I was working in the port facility in Odessa during the Orange Revolution and Russia was making some very uncomfortable moves there during that time. If they had seriously thought they were going to lose the use of that port I assure you it would have been more than a noisy protest in Kiev. It never came to that, thank goodness. It was abundantly clear that Russia was going to go along with this noisy BS in Ukraine as long as they did not lose what they NEEDED from Ukraine. If they thought they were going to lose what they need, they were prepared to step on their neck.

The Kremlin was crapping bricks when it though it was going to lose it's lease in Sevastopol.

What Russia does have as a weapon in Belarus and Ukraine is the ROC aka Russian Orthodox Church. It's Russia's #1 weapon behind oil and gas. When Ukraine tried to get it's Patriarch in Kyiv recognized the ROC threatened to leave / break away from the Ecumenical Patriarchate in Constantinople. If you ever watch a news flick of Medvedev and Tsar Putin in the Kremlin making a speech, the FSB/KGB crony ROC Patriarch is right there by their sides making sure the "flock" looks and see's who's got the power.

Here's something that plays on that...

http://www.deremilitari.org/resources/articles/novikou.htm

The terms "Rus'", "Kyivan Rus'", "Ruthenia" and "Ruthenian" as opposed to "Russia" and "Russian" are used to distinguish between the early mediaeval state with the centres in Kyiv and Novgorod and the independent duchies it disintegrated into on one hand, and the later state with the centre in Moscow on the other. The latter could be considered a distant descendant of the former yet the two are not identical. The confusion with the names is often purposefully used by Russian nationalists to lay claims on all political and spiritual heritage of Kyivan Rus'.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Why_Me