How long is actually long enough?

[garfield529 47]

The same thing happens from time to time over in the China forum, but instead of Scott we have Darnell and PushBrk to crack knuckles when bad advice is given..

[Kevin and 10]

OK guys. I agree with cedwards that Scott meant no harm. We're all here to help and discuss, right? Cheers to all and 'ppreciate all comments.

Scott and Edward

My wife told me that Dam Hoi is a different ceremony, it should always be held before the wedding ceremony. I don't know how to explain it to you guys. It's a lot like an engagement ceremony in which my family and I have to come over to her place to ask for her family's permission to marry her. This is a tradition for a long time. Recently, some villages have grown accustomed to accepting the Dam Hoi and wedding ceremony altogether to save time and money. In our specific case, we did originally plan to have them separate but there was a severe storm and rainy day all day on that day so the only chance left for us was to combine them at one, of course with some additional fees and the organizer's acceptance. Her father was dissatisfied but had no choice to do.

Welcome to VJ.

Tuyen and I had our Dam Hoi and wedding the same day. My family could only make the one trip to VN so we all decided to have it that way. It was never an issue in any of the interviews Tuyen had.

HCM is very particular on how they want things. A relationship timeline and a list of relatives is required from the HCM Consulate, even though it is not on the list of required documentation. Members have brought these to the interview and the CO still would issue a blue sheet for them. They wouldn't accept them at the time of the interview. They are a different breed over there due to the amount of fraud that goes/went through the consulate.

Good luck!

[Dau Que 6]

IMHO when you have to ask that question (how long is long enough), your relationship "smells" like fraud.

And let me guess, the "other" party from VN has become impatient for the long waiting time. After all, her goal is to get here, USA, as quickly, and "efficiently" as possible.

Search in this Regional Specific forum for a thread in the past, in which someone said you all should thoroughly invest time and effort to "investigate" your party. Rush now, make mistake, and it WILL cost you time and $$$ later once she's here.

But of course, advices often are treated like thunder falling on deaf ears in here anyway.

Edit to answer your ?: by the way, according to the "official" guide from marriage scammers over there, the typical waiting time from first meeting (not in person, but first time ever) to petition submission should be from 6 to 8 months. This time should be adjusted accordingly depending on ages and number of past divorces from both involved parties.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Dau Que

[hniHnitsuJ 8]

OK guys. I agree with cedwards that Scott meant no harm. We're all here to help and discuss, right? Cheers to all and 'ppreciate all comments.

Scott and Edward

My wife told me that Dam Hoi is a different ceremony, it should always be held before the wedding ceremony. I don't know how to explain it to you guys. It's a lot like an engagement ceremony in which my family and I have to come over to her place to ask for her family's permission to marry her. This is a tradition for a long time. Recently, some villages have grown accustomed to accepting the Dam Hoi and wedding ceremony altogether to save time and money. In our specific case, we did originally plan to have them separate but there was a severe storm and rainy day all day on that day so the only chance left for us was to combine them at one, of course with some additional fees and the organizer's acceptance. Her father was dissatisfied but had no choice to do.

Our DAM HOI in the morning, and wedding at same night. NO PROBLEM. Good luck and welcome to VJ family.

DAM HOI = Engagement. (groom’s family visiting the future bride’s home and presenting gifts)

DAM CUOI = WEDDING.

For some VNESE traditional living in the small villages. Engagement OR Weddding could last more than 3 days depend on both side of the family.

http://talk.onevietnam.org/whats-the-big-deal-with-vietnamese-traditions/

[Tero 105]

IMHO when you have to ask that question (how long is long enough), your relationship "smells" like fraud.

And let me guess, the "other" party from VN has become impatient for the long waiting time. After all, her goal is to get here, USA, as quickly, and "efficiently" as possible.

Search in this Regional Specific forum for a thread in the past, in which someone said you all should thoroughly invest time and effort to "investigate" your party. Rush now, make mistake, and it WILL cost you time and $$$ later once she's here.

But of course, advices often are treated like thunder falling on deaf ears in here anyway.

Edit to answer your ?: by the way, according to the "official" guide from marriage scammers over there, the typical waiting time from first meeting (not in person, but first time ever) to petition submission should be from 6 to 8 months. This time should be adjusted accordingly depending on ages and number of past divorces from both involved parties.

Danger! Beware of "dogs!"

[VinhBao MyTam 3]

I'm bored, maybe I'll go to the Nigerian Forum or some other random forum and post info that is specific to Vietnam...

[BinhJerome 14]

Hi everyone

I've heard that in order for your case to be approved, you and your spouse (or fiance) have to have sufficient evidence of your relationship. Besides trips to Vietnam, photos taken together, phone calls, emails & chats, etc., you have to have met her/him for a long enough time in order to be considered. My question is how long is sufficiently long enough? Four months, six months, a year or more?

There is no real time limit. It depends on the CO period.

Example 1, A person on VJ met his fiancee and within one month asked her to marry him, he went there not knowing this woman for 30 days, he stayed there only 5 days, came home and filed for the visa. 6 months later they had the interview he flew back (only 5 days again) and were approved.

Example 2. I met my fiance (now wife) and we chatted for 9 months before I ever went to visit her. I stayed 15 days the first trip, came home waited about 2 months to file for the visa, and made 2 more trips. We were denied.

Example 3. A friend met his fiancee chatted for 3 months came to visit, went home and filed for a visa, 6 months later an interview they were denied, he came back (4th time) they got married, and they filed a CR1, this visa was also denied, all this time is now going on over 2 years, they just had their 3rd interview and were finially approved (4 years total)

As you can see, it truly depends on the CO, ours lied at the interview because he didnt like something about our case, and I have now been in Vietnam for an entire year and enjoying it. Some people can barely know their loved one and get approved, it all depends on the CO. There is no majic number of months or years, or even trips, the majic is all in the CO

Good luck Jerome and Binh

[BinhJerome 14]

Dam Hoi the same day you were engaged? It could smell fishy to the CO as there are stages that a normal VN relationship goes through... If you mean the Dam Hoi the same day as the wedding, that does happen... and is said to be village specifc... some villages have no problem with it and other would say no way... the same holds true with the big feast/celebration...

Wrong.. wrong and wrong again...

Scott, you should be the first one to know that it is all up to the CO, and that many MANY people have gotten very lucky, which means it comes down to the CO, and NOT the HCMC consulate. If it were all about the HCMC consulate then many people would NOT have been given a visa. More often than not you are correct because it seems that there is a clear pattern, but to say it is all standard is a bit off base. They also use the cultural norms issue when the CO chooses to, NOT based on what HCMC says to do. How else could a person know a woman for less than 30 days, only spend 7 days together in a total of 6 months and then get issued a visa with the CO knowing they would have only had 10 days together total? If it was HCMC calling the shots and NOT a CO then they would have been denied. I also agree that people that dont know HCMC should probably not post as much as they do, but clearly this question was simply about a time frame being good enough to file, nothing about cultural norms, and if their relationship is real and they can prove it then they SHOULD be fine.

Jerome

[BinhJerome 14]

One final note.... These cultural norms that they are denying people for are currently being tried in a class action lawsuit. Clearly the lawyer taking the case feels that because there is no law or regulation stating a Dam Hoi must happen when they are denied for it that this is an unjust denial. Facts are facts, and when the CO's simply deny and give reasons, they throw whatever they want to on to the denial slip to make it look worse than it is. I personally know 4 people that were denied, and never confronted the reasons for a first denial, the only difference the second time around was they had more trips and more photos, they were approved the second time out, the Lack of Dam Hoi or other reasons for the first denial were all BS the new CO knew it and they were approved. Hopefully the class action lawsuit will help, but it will take years before we actually see any changes.

Jerome

[Tero 105]

There is no real time limit. It depends on the CO period.

Example 1, A person on VJ met his fiancee and within one month asked her to marry him, he went there not knowing this woman for 30 days, he stayed there only 5 days, came home and filed for the visa. 6 months later they had the interview he flew back (only 5 days again) and were approved.

Example 2. I met my fiance (now wife) and we chatted for 9 months before I ever went to visit her. I stayed 15 days the first trip, came home waited about 2 months to file for the visa, and made 2 more trips. We were denied.

Example 3. A friend met his fiancee chatted for 3 months came to visit, went home and filed for a visa, 6 months later an interview they were denied, he came back (4th time) they got married, and they filed a CR1, this visa was also denied, all this time is now going on over 2 years, they just had their 3rd interview and were finially approved (4 years total)

As you can see, it truly depends on the CO, ours lied at the interview because he didnt like something about our case, and I have now been in Vietnam for an entire year and enjoying it. Some people can barely know their loved one and get approved, it all depends on the CO. There is no majic number of months or years, or even trips, the majic is all in the CO

Good luck Jerome and Binh

Thanks for sharing

Scott, you should be the first one to know that it is all up to the CO, and that many MANY people have gotten very lucky, which means it comes down to the CO, and NOT the HCMC consulate. If it were all about the HCMC consulate then many people would NOT have been given a visa. More often than not you are correct because it seems that there is a clear pattern, but to say it is all standard is a bit off base. They also use the cultural norms issue when the CO chooses to, NOT based on what HCMC says to do. How else could a person know a woman for less than 30 days, only spend 7 days together in a total of 6 months and then get issued a visa with the CO knowing they would have only had 10 days together total? If it was HCMC calling the shots and NOT a CO then they would have been denied. I also agree that people that dont know HCMC should probably not post as much as they do, but clearly this question was simply about a time frame being good enough to file, nothing about cultural norms, and if their relationship is real and they can prove it then they SHOULD be fine.

Jerome

Thanks for the classy response.

[Tero 105]

I'm bored, maybe I'll go to the Nigerian Forum or some other random forum and post info that is specific to Vietnam...

It's okay. We are not territorial and we don't bite!

[luckytxn 2,264]

It's okay. We are not territorial and we don't bite!

Then no fun.

[tanstaafl 1]

I made only one trip all together. I knew my babe for a few months and went and got engaged. I have no idea why and maybe that is why I am lucky. It is rare though as many times others from here were denied as they said they did not have enough relationship. A few even had more trips than I did and had the party and were denied for lack of relationship. I do know that besides I that a very few also got a pink with little trip or knowing each other long.

Hell my fiancee even had the toughest interviewer they had back then and was grilled hard. (It was the infamous Korean lady) When she came back to give the timeline the same hard nose lady that interviewed her was nice as can be and gave her the pink at that time and the info was brought in real early.

Now the self righteous dude is right. There is no rules that state that someone has to know someone for so long and do a certain amount of things before they will OK a visa but he is a noob here and clueless. Scott and I and a few others have been here for years as we each went for our visas and stayed to help others. We have seen the whole gamut and we know what is up at this consulate. The odds of getting a visa with as little as I had is almost nil. It can happen but the best bet is to get a lot of relationship evidence and that means making more than one trip and stringing the engagement out. Make sure an engagement party is done with lots of pictures. Also make sure they see the pics of you two on different days and in different clothes.

Feel that you are special and you will be the exception? Then great go and do the minimum and let us know we are wrong. We welcome to be wrong and nothing will please us more than to see a pink when we thought a blue at the least.

luckytxn

Thanks for sharing your experience. We had a lot of pictures and chats, in part also because she loves taking pictures anyway. Now at least that part would help

[tanstaafl 1]

Welcome to VJ.

Tuyen and I had our Dam Hoi and wedding the same day. My family could only make the one trip to VN so we all decided to have it that way. It was never an issue in any of the interviews Tuyen had.

HCM is very particular on how they want things. A relationship timeline and a list of relatives is required from the HCM Consulate, even though it is not on the list of required documentation. Members have brought these to the interview and the CO still would issue a blue sheet for them. They wouldn't accept them at the time of the interview. They are a different breed over there due to the amount of fraud that goes/went through the consulate.

Good luck!

Thanks Kevin. Why would the CO issue a blue sheet for them when they have all the required documents like timeline and list of relatives at the time of the interview?

[tanstaafl 1]

IMHO when you have to ask that question (how long is long enough), your relationship "smells" like fraud.

And let me guess, the "other" party from VN has become impatient for the long waiting time. After all, her goal is to get here, USA, as quickly, and "efficiently" as possible.

Search in this Regional Specific forum for a thread in the past, in which someone said you all should thoroughly invest time and effort to "investigate" your party. Rush now, make mistake, and it WILL cost you time and $$ later once she's here.

But of course, advices often are treated like thunder falling on deaf ears in here anyway.

Edit to answer your ?: by the way, according to the "official" guide from marriage scammers over there, the typical waiting time from first meeting (not in person, but first time ever) to petition submission should be from 6 to 8 months. This time should be adjusted accordingly depending on ages and number of past divorces from both involved parties.

Dau Que

IMHO when you have to ask that question (how long is long enough), your relationship "smells" like fraud.

My relationship "smells" like fraud because of what? Based on my asking that question? Wow!!! You're pretty quick to pass judgment without the need to know more facts, and especially when you don't know anything about my relationship yet!

And let me guess, the "other" party from VN has become impatient for the long waiting time. After all, her goal is to get here, USA, as quickly, and "efficiently" as possible.

It's statement like this that makes HCMC having the reputation of one of the most notorious consulates when it comes to visa issuance. I'm lucky enough to have chances to talk to many Vietnamese ladies in HCMC and Hanoi, and many of them weren't thrilled of getting here in the States, especially when they have good education and good position where they're working. My wife agreed to give up her consultant job over there to come here just because I promised her that if she didn't like it here then she can come back. She also tried to persuade me to apply for a position at Intel over there but I don't want to give up my good one here in the States and I don't like living there. She also told me that those who want to get to the USA as quickly and "efficiently" like you said could be the ones without jobs, without much knowledge about the USA, want to change their life, etc.