Immigration Lotto Lunacy

[^_^ 5,021]

Looks like according to you it would be even better to cancel asylum/refugees immigration.

Hell yeah I'd be all for that.

[Boiler 45,940]

Hell yeah I'd be all for that.

Me too

I can only remember coming across a couple of legit claims, the vast majority of economic migrants pulling a fast one.

[Danno 1,228]

It has always been immigrants that provide fresh enthusiasm to the American system. The reason why we let in these people is that they are good for America. They are educated and provide the US with a co mingling of concepts that are key to what we once were. Because these people are prohibited from jumping on the welfare wagon they are also productive members of the society.

We focus so much in movies and speeches about few decades of "Immigration waves" we often times don't realize the laws that were put in place to stop that.

In fact for a year or two (I think in the thirties) more people LEFT the country than came in.

Too often we throw out terms like "We are a nation of immigrants" and while that is certainly true.... we were in truth, (until the sixties and seventies ) a nation of "European immigrants" on the wholesale level with a few others sprinkled in.

SInce the 60's & 70's we have become a nation of immigrants from around the world.

I suspect so many are coming from such diverse places that if it's not soon stopped, it will lead to a unrepairable, Balkanized society.... the likes of which we have not seen.

It took decades to meld the different European cultures together, (after Immigrations was limited)... certainly the farther apart people are socially from the start, the more time and difficulty it takes to make them into "one people".

...If being "one people" is even the goal any more.... or have we become a location where many groups are welcomes to live in freedom while they move and relate permanently in their own ethnic societies?

[^_^ 5,021]

...we were in truth, (until the sixties and seventies ) a nation of "European immigrants" on the wholesale level with a few others sprinkled in.

SInce the 60's & 70's we have become a nation of immigrants from around the world.

I suspect so many are coming from such diverse places that if it's not soon stopped, it will lead to a unrepairable, Balkanized society.... the likes of which we have not seen.

Two points.

One, your cultural paranoia directed at people who are not of European descent comes out loud and clear in this post. I won't call you racist because I think you are actually just skeered of the unfamiliar.

Two, do you really think non-Europeans were just "sprinkled in" prior to the 60s? Take a look at this PDF (safe for work) and tell me if you still believe that. Or could it be that you are perfectly ok with non-Europeans in your midst but only as long as they arrive in chains and not as free men?

[Danno 1,228]

Two points.

One, your cultural paranoia directed at people who are not of European descent comes out loud and clear in this post. I won't call you racist because I think you are actually just skeered of the unfamiliar.

Two, do you really think non-Europeans were just "sprinkled in" prior to the 60s? Take a look at this PDF (safe for work) and tell me if you still believe that. Or could it be that you are perfectly ok with non-Europeans in your midst but only as long as they arrive in chains and not as free men?

Are you suggesting those brought in chains were viewed as "immigrants"?

You are aware importation of Slaves was halted around 1800?

As immigration laws and procedures were put in place, you will find my points to be right on.

If pointing out historical facts about immigration causes you to think I am "skeered of the unfamiliar" that says more about you than me.

[^_^ 5,021]

Are you suggesting those brought in chains were viewed as "immigrants"?

You are aware importation of Slaves was halted around 1800?

As immigration laws and procedures were put in place, you will find my points to be right on.

If pointing out historical facts about immigration causes you to think I am "skeered of the unfamiliar" that says more about you than me.

There is very little fact behind your belief that non-European immigrants are somehow worse for the country than European immigrants were. That isn't fact, it is fear.

[Danno 1,228]

There is very little fact behind your belief that non-European immigrants are somehow worse for the country than European immigrants were. That isn't fact, it is fear.

I never said that.

My point was

- World-wide immigration is a relatively new part of our nations immigration policy.

- Cultures that are extremely different require more time and effort to assimilate.

I do fear we are growing into a less cohesive nation..... in so many ways, mass immigration is just one part of that.

[^_^ 5,021]

I do fear we are growing into a less cohesive nation..... in so many ways, mass immigration is just one part of that.

IMO technology is a much bigger part of that.

[Zero Sum 305]

We usually don't agree on much, but believe it or not, that has always been my position on immigration policy. What is in the best interests of the vast majority of the American people and to maintain a cohesive society. Too many people on VJ look at immigration as some sort of charity event to save the world and improve the lives of immigrants or as some sort of social experiment to reinvent America. American immigration policy should be a mutually beneficial endeavor and not a burden on society or a divisive policy that polarizes society.

Immigration for immigration's sake is not a good policy. There is no right to immigrate nor is any country obligated to allow immigration.

I agree with the perspective that it should be for the benefit of the nation. Obviously.

Regarding this statement:

Too many people on VJ look at immigration as some sort of charity event to save the world and improve the lives of immigrants or as some sort of social experiment to reinvent America.

There is quite a good deal of philosophy behind the immigrant visas, and such perspectives disagree with your attempt at placing diversification of the population as a negative, or implied negative. It may not be written in stone, and clearly changes with each generation that reaches policy-making in this issue; but the general idea in some regards is to benefit the nation through allowing parties beneficial to the nation, be they on merit or be they on being from diverse backgrounds. This is called enrichment. Some will have obvious problems with this, and they may have their reasons for opposing this enrichment for many reasons. Some good. Some bad.

I just did the ESTAs for my parents who are coming over next week. Fee is $14.00 and the approval is instant.

Nice. Yeah, $14 is the right amount.

Me too

I can only remember coming across a couple of legit claims, the vast majority of economic migrants pulling a fast one.

Do you work at USCIS?

[Zero Sum 305]

We focus so much in movies and speeches about few decades of "Immigration waves" we often times don't realize the laws that were put in place to stop that.

In fact for a year or two (I think in the thirties) more people LEFT the country than came in.

Too often we throw out terms like "We are a nation of immigrants" and while that is certainly true.... we were in truth, (until the sixties and seventies ) a nation of "European immigrants" on the wholesale level with a few others sprinkled in.

SInce the 60's & 70's we have become a nation of immigrants from around the world.

I suspect so many are coming from such diverse places that if it's not soon stopped, it will lead to a unrepairable, Balkanized society.... the likes of which we have not seen.

It took decades to meld the different European cultures together, (after Immigrations was limited)... certainly the farther apart people are socially from the start, the more time and difficulty it takes to make them into "one people".

...If being "one people" is even the goal any more.... or have we become a location where many groups are welcomes to live in freedom while they move and relate permanently in their own ethnic societies?

There are obvious subgroups of immigrants where very little assimilation has taken place. Their kids, though, independent of legal status, actually have undertaken the path to assimilation. At least culturally to some extent.

[Zero Sum 305]

Are you suggesting those brought in chains were viewed as "immigrants"?

You are aware importation of Slaves was halted around 1800?

As immigration laws and procedures were put in place, you will find my points to be right on.

If pointing out historical facts about immigration causes you to think I am "skeered of the unfamiliar" that says more about you than me.

They were brought over and not considered whole human beings, even after the trade was halted in importation, so your rationale could not even be a parallel to current immigration standards.

Furthermore, immigration control laws throughout history have definitely had their element of racial exclusivity, so it should not be a big surprise to have certain conclusions drawn about your underlying psychology.

[^_^ 5,021]

There are obvious subgroups of immigrants where very little assimilation has taken place. Their kids, though, independent of legal status, actually have undertaken the path to assimilation. At least culturally to some extent.

The only subcultures I've noticed to not have made any attempt to assimilate in the 2nd/3rd (or after) generations are the Amish the the Hasidim.

[Boiler 45,940]

Do you work at USCIS?

I do read the newspapers etc. You do not see very many on this forum, I have not seen a legit one here from memory. Perhaps I missed it.

[Zero Sum 305]

The only subcultures I've noticed to not have made any attempt to assimilate in the 2nd/3rd (or after) generations are the Amish the the Hasidim.

So it becomes an issue of desirables/un-desirables for many then.

I do read the newspapers etc. You do not see very many on this forum, I have not seen a legit one here from memory. Perhaps I missed it.

Got you. Yeah, I'd be careful with basing whole conclusions on limited information. Although I would definitely take a hard look at the reasons for refugee status. That's where personal philosophy would most likely cause conflicts.

BTW- which news papers? All of them?

Edited March 4, 2011 by Zero Sum

[Saddle Bronc 124]

That would be great if they can work out the logistics of it. Here's how Canada used to do it with their points based system. Not sure if they still do it this way.

http://www.workpermit.com/canada/points_calculator.htm

Last time I was in Canada (2005) there was a documentary about how they had a shortage of doctors AND probably the highest percentage of doctors working as cab drivers of anywhere in the world. Basically a foreign doctor would score well on the educational and financial part of the points system, but they would get to Canada and their medical degree was not recognized.

A lot of people want to do away with the H1B visa too. Maybe get rid of the H1B and the lottery and have a category for skilled immigrant in an area of high need. Numbers would vary by year based on need.

BTW, the "cap" system for H1-b's was initiated in 1989--no coincidence exactly the time Canada-US Free Trade Deal started to take effect (the idea was that single Canadians on TC's would fill that gap--which of course went awry lotsa ways early).