Americans Support Racial Profiling

[desert_fox 32]

Is it the black community's problem, the individuals' problem, or society as a whole's problem?

It's everybody's problem. Ultimately, though, the solution will have to be found and implemented in the black community. I just don't like having the finger pointed at me or "the institutions" when the fist step ought to be a close look in the mirror. As long as there's denial, nothing will get better.

One of my best friends, who happens to be black, is also a PhD in education and the Superitendent of a schol system. He tells me stories of some of his black students that really makes me wonder at times. These kids are cultural trained not to suceed. If a black student gets good grades, he is then taunted by his fellow black students of just trying to act white. Any young black kid wil tell you that he doesnt need an education because he is convinced that he is going to be drafted by the L.A. Lakers when he gets out of high school.

The only ones that escape the trap are those who have educated parents and instill into their sons and daughters the need to get a good education. Its strictly a matter of bad parenting and peer pressure.

Also have a lady friend who is a court reporter. At times she is assigned to the Juvenile Court for kids that commit some kind of crime or steal a car. She has told me many times of the kids that show up in court with the parents wearing gang clothing. The judge takes one look, continues the case for 24 hours, and tells the kid and the parents, "how dare you show up in my court dressed looking like that". I want you back here tomorrow at the same time, properly attired and groomed, and if not, I will hold you all in contempt and you will not be leaving here.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Is it the black community's problem, the individuals' problem, or society as a whole's problem?

It's everybody's problem. Ultimately, though, the solution will have to be found and implemented in the black community. I just don't like having the finger pointed at me or "the institutions" when the fist step ought to be a close look in the mirror. As long as there's denial, nothing will get better.

One of my best friends, who happens to be black, is also a PhD in education and the Superitendent of a schol system. He tells me stories of some of his black students that really makes me wonder at times. These kids are cultural trained not to suceed. If a black student gets good grades, he is then taunted by his fellow black students of just trying to act white. Any young black kid wil tell you that he doesnt need an education because he is convinced that he is going to be drafted by the L.A. Lakers when he gets out of high school.

The only ones that escape the trap are those who have educated parents and instill into their sons and daughters the need to get a good education. Its strictly a matter of bad parenting and peer pressure.

Bingo!

Nobody is being excluded, but the fact that no whites go there is indicative of something to me.

And what would that something be?

Excercise for you:

1) Take a stroll through the TSU campus in Nashville, TN while being white. Then come back here and tell me how welcome you felt.

2) Have a black friend go visit MTSU campus in Murfreesboro, TN and report back on his/her welcome on that campus.

Then we'll talk.

Edited September 3, 2006 by ET-US2004

[Alex+R 0]

Is it the black community's problem, the individuals' problem, or society as a whole's problem?

It's everybody's problem. Ultimately, though, the solution will have to be found and implemented in the black community. I just don't like having the finger pointed at me or "the institutions" when the fist step ought to be a close look in the mirror. As long as there's denial, nothing will get better.

One of my best friends, who happens to be black, is also a PhD in education and the Superitendent of a schol system. He tells me stories of some of his black students that really makes me wonder at times. These kids are cultural trained not to suceed. If a black student gets good grades, he is then taunted by his fellow black students of just trying to act white. Any young black kid wil tell you that he doesnt need an education because he is convinced that he is going to be drafted by the L.A. Lakers when he gets out of high school.

The only ones that escape the trap are those who have educated parents and instill into their sons and daughters the need to get a good education. Its strictly a matter of bad parenting and peer pressure.

Bingo!

Nobody is being excluded, but the fact that no whites go there is indicative of something to me.

And what would that something be?

Excercise for you:

1) Take a stroll through the TSU campus in Nashville, TN while being white. Then come back here and tell me how welcome you felt.

2) Have a black friend go visit MTSU campus in Murfreesboro, TN and report back on his/her welcome on that campus.

Then we'll talk.

Funny, the sentence that preceded the one you bolded, "The only ones that escape the trap are those who have educated parents and instill into their sons and daughters the need to get a good education." supports my point, which is that families are stuck in cycles and we have to do something as a society to bring as many people into the "people with educated parents" category.

I don't understand this whole "wait til you experience 'reverse racism'" argument people keep giving me. I KNOW people don't feel welcome in certain areas based on their race. Most of us have experienced this at one time or another. This whole discussion is futile, and the only thing that matters is eradicating institutionalized racism so that individuals have even a CHANCE to eliminate individual instances of racism.

Here is what I was talking about when I used the word "excluded," which you could find just a few posts up from where you may have started reading:

Lisa was saying she thought it was wrong for the school to keep whites out, and I was simply letting her know that it was not, in fact, a rule of theirs to limit the student body to blacks-only. It was just who decided to go to the black-culture-centric school. What I thought it was indicative of was the fact that whites are not complaining here, and nobody is upset that their white child cannot attend this black school. Hence, it seems clear that limiting a school to whites is a VERY DIFFERENT situation than limiting a school to all blacks.

Edited September 3, 2006 by Alex+R

[Fischkoepfin 1]

Is it the black community's problem, the individuals' problem, or society as a whole's problem?

It's everybody's problem. Ultimately, though, the solution will have to be found and implemented in the black community. I just don't like having the finger pointed at me or "the institutions" when the fist step ought to be a close look in the mirror. As long as there's denial, nothing will get better.

One of my best friends, who happens to be black, is also a PhD in education and the Superitendent of a schol system. He tells me stories of some of his black students that really makes me wonder at times. These kids are cultural trained not to suceed. If a black student gets good grades, he is then taunted by his fellow black students of just trying to act white. Any young black kid wil tell you that he doesnt need an education because he is convinced that he is going to be drafted by the L.A. Lakers when he gets out of high school.

The only ones that escape the trap are those who have educated parents and instill into their sons and daughters the need to get a good education. Its strictly a matter of bad parenting and peer pressure.

Also have a lady friend who is a court reporter. At times she is assigned to the Juvenile Court for kids that commit some kind of crime or steal a car. She has told me many times of the kids that show up in court with the parents wearing gang clothing. The judge takes one look, continues the case for 24 hours, and tells the kid and the parents, "how dare you show up in my court dressed looking like that". I want you back here tomorrow at the same time, properly attired and groomed, and if not, I will hold you all in contempt and you will not be leaving here.

I've actually heard the same thing about black children and education recently. There is, particularly for black male children, a perception that kids who try to succeed in school are losers. That of course is a problem. On the other hand, assuming that this attitude is exclusively coming from parents and peer pressure overlooks that it is in effect an internalization of societies' views of black men (and to a certain degree women) that stems back from centuries of prejudice. Historically, black men were viewed as lazy, stupid, and driven exclusively by their sex drive. Since the civil war, black men have additionally been accused of being unable to maintain a family and serve as the head of a household; as studies of the impact of slavery have shown, however, the issue is not that black men are somehow deficient, but that kinship traditions were disrupted by slavery which disregarded the existence of families. Because of this messed-up situtation, in black culture, men have been struggling to conform to mainstream society and head their own households, but once a tradition has been disrupted, it is almost impossible to reinstitute, especially not within a few generations.

You can attempt to end discrimination, especially on an institutional basis, but you can't that easily reverse prejudice. Of course, you might say that there are enough black people who are successful and all that, but if you talk to them about poor black people they will offer similar insights as white people on blacks in general, which shows that the prejudice is to a certain degree class-based. Anyway, what I'm trying to get at is that in order to change the situation of poor blacks in this country, it is necessary to overcome the legacies of internalized prejudice. And that is an undertaking which is primarily up to the black community, but which nevertheless needs the support of everyone because the prejudices still exist.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Is it the black community's problem, the individuals' problem, or society as a whole's problem?

It's everybody's problem. Ultimately, though, the solution will have to be found and implemented in the black community. I just don't like having the finger pointed at me or "the institutions" when the fist step ought to be a close look in the mirror. As long as there's denial, nothing will get better.

One of my best friends, who happens to be black, is also a PhD in education and the Superitendent of a schol system. He tells me stories of some of his black students that really makes me wonder at times. These kids are cultural trained not to suceed. If a black student gets good grades, he is then taunted by his fellow black students of just trying to act white. Any young black kid wil tell you that he doesnt need an education because he is convinced that he is going to be drafted by the L.A. Lakers when he gets out of high school.

The only ones that escape the trap are those who have educated parents and instill into their sons and daughters the need to get a good education. Its strictly a matter of bad parenting and peer pressure.

Bingo!

Nobody is being excluded, but the fact that no whites go there is indicative of something to me.

And what would that something be?

Excercise for you:

1) Take a stroll through the TSU campus in Nashville, TN while being white. Then come back here and tell me how welcome you felt.

2) Have a black friend go visit MTSU campus in Murfreesboro, TN and report back on his/her welcome on that campus.

Then we'll talk.

Funny, the sentence that preceded the one you bolded, "The only ones that escape the trap are those who have educated parents and instill into their sons and daughters the need to get a good education." supports my point, which is that families are stuck in cycles and we have to do something as a society to bring as many people into the "people with educated parents" category.

Those educated parents got their education despite facing more obstacles than anyone today can even imagine. They got it nonetheless. It's a personal responsibility issue. Nothing more, nothing less. There are no institutional obstacles for black folk to get a good education. Unless you consider the peer pressure from within the black community not to "act white" an institutional obstacle. If you do, I'd submit that that obstacle is home-made.

I'll tell you one of the reasons I feel so strongly about this: No other member of my immediate family has as much as a high school diploma. I went for and completed my Masters. And I did that despite facing much resistance not for the color of my skin but for my political convictions being in opposition to the government living under a totalitarian regime. It ain't easy but it can be done. Many members of minority groups have shown that it is possible. Folks just gotta quit their fcuking whining, stop pointing fingers as opposed to taking a look in the mirror, suck it up and take charge of their lives.

[Alex+R 0]

On the other hand, assuming that this attitude is exclusively coming from parents and peer pressure overlooks that it is in effect an internalization of societies' views of black men (and to a certain degree women) that stems back from centuries of prejudice.

According to a lot of VJers, this never happened.

You can attempt to end discrimination, especially on an institutional basis, but you can't that easily reverse prejudice. Of course, you might say that there are enough black people who are successful and all that, but if you talk to them about poor black people they will offer similar insights as white people on blacks in general, which shows that the prejudice is to a certain degree class-based.

Bolded part especially. A cultural change in the black community is necessary, but that's not going to happen until they are proportionately as educated as white America.

Education, cultivating desire for education, and facilitating opportunities for education are key.

edit: double post

Edited September 3, 2006 by Alex+R

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Education, cultivating desire for education, and facilitating opportunities for education are key.

The door's wide open. Need a wheelchair to make it through to the other side? I have to push it, too?

[Alex+R 0]

Is it the black community's problem, the individuals' problem, or society as a whole's problem?

It's everybody's problem. Ultimately, though, the solution will have to be found and implemented in the black community. I just don't like having the finger pointed at me or "the institutions" when the fist step ought to be a close look in the mirror. As long as there's denial, nothing will get better.

One of my best friends, who happens to be black, is also a PhD in education and the Superitendent of a schol system. He tells me stories of some of his black students that really makes me wonder at times. These kids are cultural trained not to suceed. If a black student gets good grades, he is then taunted by his fellow black students of just trying to act white. Any young black kid wil tell you that he doesnt need an education because he is convinced that he is going to be drafted by the L.A. Lakers when he gets out of high school.

The only ones that escape the trap are those who have educated parents and instill into their sons and daughters the need to get a good education. Its strictly a matter of bad parenting and peer pressure.

Bingo!

Nobody is being excluded, but the fact that no whites go there is indicative of something to me.

And what would that something be?

Excercise for you:

1) Take a stroll through the TSU campus in Nashville, TN while being white. Then come back here and tell me how welcome you felt.

2) Have a black friend go visit MTSU campus in Murfreesboro, TN and report back on his/her welcome on that campus.

Then we'll talk.

Funny, the sentence that preceded the one you bolded, "The only ones that escape the trap are those who have educated parents and instill into their sons and daughters the need to get a good education." supports my point, which is that families are stuck in cycles and we have to do something as a society to bring as many people into the "people with educated parents" category.

Those educated parents got their education despite facing more obstacles than anyone today can even imagine. They got it nonetheless. It's a personal responsibility issue. Nothing more, nothing less. There are no institutional obstacles for black folk to get a good education. Unless you consider the peer pressure from within the black community not to "act white" an institutional obstacle. If you do, I'd submit that that obstacle is home-made.

I'll tell you one of the reasons I feel so strongly about this: No other member of my immediate family has as much as a high school diploma. I went for and completed my Masters. And I did that despite facing much resistance not for the color of my skin but for my political convictions being in opposition to the government living under a totalitarian regime. It ain't easy but it can be done. Many members of minority groups have shown that it is possible. Folks just gotta quit their fcuking whining, stop pointing fingers as opposed to taking a look in the mirror, suck it up and take charge of their lives.

You know, if you have less money, you will have fewer opportunities and have to kick your own a$$ quite a bit more to get where someone with money can get easily. Fairly simple, right?

Why is it that we expect ALL poor people to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" (what a load) and work extra hard to achieve what others can do easily?

Do you really, honestly expect everyone in the black community who is poor to suddenly be more motivated and transcend their surroundings? You want everyone to be a stunning success story and beat the odds?

It's not likely.

So if poor, black people do not value education and do not run out and get an advanced degree on their own, should we just shrug and say "oh well"?

This does not seem like a very productive solution to me.

[PlatyPius 5]

Education, cultivating desire for education, and facilitating opportunities for education are key.

The door's wide open. Need a wheelchair to make it through to the other side? I have to push it, too?

Apparently so, yes. The mean, mean white man has damaged the morale of the black man so badly, that he can't do anything for himself.

Whatever.

I know black people who have made something of themselves, and black people who are happy to be "ganstas" for the rest of their lives. They're all black, they all grew up poor, and they all had the same #$%ing opportunities to finish high school and go to college. Some chose to do so and are doing well, some chose to be worthless gangsta trash and blame it all on "the man". Imagine that.....Americans without a sense of personal responsibility.....

[Fischkoepfin 1]

On the other hand, assuming that this attitude is exclusively coming from parents and peer pressure overlooks that it is in effect an internalization of societies' views of black men (and to a certain degree women) that stems back from centuries of prejudice.

According to a lot of VJers, this never happened.

According to a lot of people in the U.S., it doesn't exist and never happened because most people see racism as merely institutional. But that would be mean that getting rid of Jim Crow laws and integrating schools and the like would have done the trick which it didn't, in the same way as simply abolishing slavery did not change the way blacks were looked at (actually, it made things worse).

You can attempt to end discrimination, especially on an institutional basis, but you can't that easily reverse prejudice. Of course, you might say that there are enough black people who are successful and all that, but if you talk to them about poor black people they will offer similar insights as white people on blacks in general, which shows that the prejudice is to a certain degree class-based.

Bolded part especially. A cultural change in the black community is necessary, but that's not going to happen until they are proportionately as educated as white America.

Education, cultivating desire for education, and facilitating opportunities for education are key.

edit: double post

Yes, I agree; education is the key, and as I mentioned before the impetus for this will have to come first of all from the black community. Beginning to recognize that all this is also a class issue would be a good way for non-blacks to approach the issue, however. A person's race is just one aspect of their identity. So maybe it is about time to start comparing poor blacks not to affluent blacks or even worse educated white people but to white people living in trailers who also could care less about education and who come to school with similar attitudes.

And this leads back to my point on wide-spread prejudice: why do people complain about blacks refusing to play with the system but at the same time they take the poor white person who displays a similarly defiant attitude for granted?

Edited September 3, 2006 by Fischkoepfin

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Is it the black community's problem, the individuals' problem, or society as a whole's problem?

It's everybody's problem. Ultimately, though, the solution will have to be found and implemented in the black community. I just don't like having the finger pointed at me or "the institutions" when the fist step ought to be a close look in the mirror. As long as there's denial, nothing will get better.

One of my best friends, who happens to be black, is also a PhD in education and the Superitendent of a schol system. He tells me stories of some of his black students that really makes me wonder at times. These kids are cultural trained not to suceed. If a black student gets good grades, he is then taunted by his fellow black students of just trying to act white. Any young black kid wil tell you that he doesnt need an education because he is convinced that he is going to be drafted by the L.A. Lakers when he gets out of high school.

The only ones that escape the trap are those who have educated parents and instill into their sons and daughters the need to get a good education. Its strictly a matter of bad parenting and peer pressure.

Bingo!

Nobody is being excluded, but the fact that no whites go there is indicative of something to me.

And what would that something be?

Excercise for you:

1) Take a stroll through the TSU campus in Nashville, TN while being white. Then come back here and tell me how welcome you felt.

2) Have a black friend go visit MTSU campus in Murfreesboro, TN and report back on his/her welcome on that campus.

Then we'll talk.

Funny, the sentence that preceded the one you bolded, "The only ones that escape the trap are those who have educated parents and instill into their sons and daughters the need to get a good education." supports my point, which is that families are stuck in cycles and we have to do something as a society to bring as many people into the "people with educated parents" category.

Those educated parents got their education despite facing more obstacles than anyone today can even imagine. They got it nonetheless. It's a personal responsibility issue. Nothing more, nothing less. There are no institutional obstacles for black folk to get a good education. Unless you consider the peer pressure from within the black community not to "act white" an institutional obstacle. If you do, I'd submit that that obstacle is home-made.

I'll tell you one of the reasons I feel so strongly about this: No other member of my immediate family has as much as a high school diploma. I went for and completed my Masters. And I did that despite facing much resistance not for the color of my skin but for my political convictions being in opposition to the government living under a totalitarian regime. It ain't easy but it can be done. Many members of minority groups have shown that it is possible. Folks just gotta quit their fcuking whining, stop pointing fingers as opposed to taking a look in the mirror, suck it up and take charge of their lives.

You know, if you have less money, you will have fewer opportunities and have to kick your own a$$ quite a bit more to get where someone with money can get easily. Fairly simple, right?

Thank you very much for reflecting on my personal situation when growing up and fighting harder than the next guy to get where I am today. First through school, then after immigrating to the US. Trust me, I've been there, done that. I am positive proof that it can be done. I didn't ask for pity and I won't give any either. Take charge of your life and make the best of it. It's in YOUR hands, whatever color they are, grab opportunity and don't let it get away.

Or continue to feel sorry for yourself and keep the cycle going for another generation. Your choice - yours alone. And don't expect me to give a damn one way or the other.

[PlatyPius 5]

So if poor, black people do not value education and do not run out and get an advanced degree on their own, should we just shrug and say "oh well"?

This does not seem like a very productive solution to me.

Why not? Isn't that what we do with poor white people, too? Why should poor blacks get more breaks/benefits/compassion than poor white people? Because 150 years ago their cousin's uncle's wife's brother's ex-girlfriend came from a family that owned slaves? You can only use the "oh woe! poor downtrodden race of people!" thing so long. I seem to remember the Irish being thought of as nothing but trash when they first immigrated here. Why don't I see them moaning and complaining these days about how oppressed they are?

At some point in their history, EVERY race/nation was a victim of slavery. Did they all become a bunch of whiny freeloaders because of past injustices, or did they get off their a$$es and do something about it?

[Edit]

I really should clarify, because I kinda sound like a racist there. I am only referring to blacks who CHOOSE to be victims and do nothing to improve their lives. I feel the same way about ALL people who play the "victim card" and accept no personal responsibility for their own circumstances.

Edited September 3, 2006 by Cian

[Alex+R 0]

Cian,

Every poor person who does not help themselves is more money out of your pocket to pay for their expenses. More crime on the streets because of poverty. More children without health insurance.

Without worrying about whose responsibility it TECHNICALLY is to take care of the problem of poverty, black or otherwise, you can still see how, in terms of even money, it is not beneficial for our society to have a lot of poor people in it.

I think we should try to find solutions to the poverty problem for ALL of our sakes, without pointing fingers.

[Fischkoepfin 1]

Education, cultivating desire for education, and facilitating opportunities for education are key.

The door's wide open. Need a wheelchair to make it through to the other side? I have to push it, too?

Apparently so, yes. The mean, mean white man has damaged the morale of the black man so badly, that he can't do anything for himself.

Whatever.

I know black people who have made something of themselves, and black people who are happy to be "ganstas" for the rest of their lives. They're all black, they all grew up poor, and they all had the same #$%ing opportunities to finish high school and go to college. Some chose to do so and are doing well, some chose to be worthless gangsta trash and blame it all on "the man". Imagine that.....Americans without a sense of personal responsibility.....

Not taking responsibility for past injustice is practically the same as not taking responsibility for oneself. This is not about the blame-game but about understanding that community that have been oppressed for centuries can't uplift themselves in less than 50 years. Someone in the past screwed this up, and we'll have to do something to rectify this mistake.

There are always people who make it for themselves regardless of the circumstances they grow up in. Yet, the majority of people never get there be it because they don't have the strength or be it because they don't care. That's how humans are. But there's no reason why we shouldn't care about this and try to help in any way we can.

[KarenCee 3]

*quietly raises her hand*

I am a white American woman whose ancestry is deeply rooted in the Native American ancestry. I have worked my a$$ off to get where I am today. The _____ race (you fill in the blank) doesn't corner the market on having the hardest time getting anywhere in this life. You make the conscious choice to either pull yourself up by the proverbial bootstraps or wallow in your own self pity. I was raised in a poor family and I am the only one of my siblings that has chosen to make something of myself. I never once thought that my race or ethnicity had anything to do with how hard it was (and still is at times) to get where I am today.

Thank you very much.