Americans Support Racial Profiling

[mawilson 2,133]

Why is it natural here, but not in Brazil? I don't get it.

No idea, Alex. I don't get it either, but that's the way things are.

[KarenCee 3]

Our school system is predominatly white...through no fault of anyone. It's just that our area isn't as populated with other races as some others. However, black kids, hispanic kids, asian kids, indian kids (native american and east indian) and any other race gets the same quality education as their white counterpart, and even the kids whose parents are here illegally (yes, this much I know, for I teach a child who is an illegal, as is his mother). Yet, one county over from where we live has one of the highest hispanic population in Georgia.

Racial issues. They will never change, this racial ####### we live with. We can all debate profiling, racial this and racial that til pigs grow wings and fly. It won't change anything. Profiling? That will be an issue til the end of the world as we know it. Even I get the "third" degree when I fly home from Canada...and I am a white American female. Is that profiling me because I am an American? I've flown to and from Canada several times and each time I leave Canada to come home I get the same treatment...a very thourough search. Is that fair to me? No. Do I like it? No. Is there anything I can actively do about it, other than gripe? No. Just my thoughts on this.

Edited September 2, 2006 by KarenCee

[mawilson 2,133]

But you can't sit here and extoll the virtues of Affirmative Action and why we need it, claim there's no 'reverse racism' (which I'll agree just on the term but there is deffo anti-white racism alive and well which I think you yourself provided and example of, ty), then make that statement about segregation above...then say how an all black school worked out for the benefit of the students.

Maybe Alex is trying to say that it's ok to have all-black schools (because reverse racism

"doesn't exist") , but not all-white schools?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Sure, individuals are not as openly racist as they used to be, but if you look at our society, you can still see segregation.

Especially at the elementary school level. And that has helped. (One thing was making an all-black elementary school, which, while controversial, really raised test scores and kept its graduates in school longer.)

Yep, I sure can

Lisa, are you trying to argue that segregation is a good thing in general? That's dangerous turf you're treading on there.

Of course I'm not! I'm shocked you could come to this conclusion based on what I said. It just struck me as funny (not ha ha) that in one breath you're saying 'oh racism is done in secret now...you can still see segregation' (I inferred that to mean whites segregating themselves from blacks...and then in the very next post, you speak of positive results when blacks segregated themselves. Segregation is wrong & there is no way on this earth I could ever talk about it with any positive results.

It makes absolutely zero sense to me because I don't feel you're consistant. If there were an all-white school....would you be angry? Would you cry 'racism!' ? Or would you say 'well studies did prove how the students performed better'

But you can't sit here and extoll the virtues of Affirmative Action and why we need it, claim there's no 'reverse racism' (which I'll agree just on the term but there is deffo anti-white racism alive and well which I think you yourself provided and example of, ty), then make that statement about segregation above...then say how an all black school worked out for the benefit of the students.

.........

[Jenn! 918]

So, the institution (in this case the school) is responsible for black kids not going to school and not being driven to achievement? And I thought that the disproportionate share of single parent households and dysfunctional homes within the African American community had something to do with it.

And what would you say are the reasons behind that?

Enlighten me. I'm sure it's a white conspiracy of some sort that keeps the black dads away from their kids and their kids' mothers. Or the conspiracy where white people manufacture and sell pants to black folks where the zippers don't stay closed? Something like that? Let's have it.

I don't have a straight answer. I'm just pointing out that there's a reason behind everything. Whether you believe it's because black men are genetically predisposed to being poor fathers and role models or because society has forced them into that role, we can't just stop at saying black families are disproportionately "dysfunctional" and therefore black children have a lower chance of success. Is it the black community's problem, the individuals' problem, or society as a whole's problem?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Is it the black community's problem, the individuals' problem, or society as a whole's problem?

It's everybody's problem. Ultimately, though, the solution will have to be found and implemented in the black community. I just don't like having the finger pointed at me or "the institutions" when the fist step ought to be a close look in the mirror. As long as there's denial, nothing will get better.

[hafiz 1]

racial profiling is necessary to deter Bull ######. I am not against it but please dont have a ###### ing attitude when you are asking me questions at the lines.

Edited September 2, 2006 by hafiz

[Alex+R 0]

Of course I'm not! I'm shocked you could come to this conclusion based on what I said. It just struck me as funny (not ha ha) that in one breath you're saying 'oh racism is done in secret now...you can still see segregation' (I inferred that to mean whites segregating themselves from blacks...and then in the very next post, you speak of positive results when blacks segregated themselves. Segregation is wrong & there is no way on this earth I could ever talk about it with any positive results.

In your haste to make me sound stupid instead of reading what I wrote, you missed my point. I never said I thought that the methods of that school should be implemented everywhere. I do not pretend to have the answers, but I thought it was *interesting.* It's sort of like when all girls go to a school and perform better at math than girls in a mixed education environment. Of course there is a debate on whether or not that's a good idea. But nobody is arguing women and men should be separated at all times.

It makes absolutely zero sense to me because I don't feel you're consistant. If there were an all-white school....would you be angry? Would you cry 'racism!' ? Or would you say 'well studies did prove how the students performed better'

My comment was not contradictory to my opinion that segregation is a bad thing (remind anyone else of Little Miss Springfield?); it was just an observation on reality--something that is rarely black and white (no pun intended)

But you can't sit here and extoll the virtues of Affirmative Action and why we need it, claim there's no 'reverse racism' (which I'll agree just on the term but there is deffo anti-white racism alive and well which I think you yourself provided and example of, ty), then make that statement about segregation above...then say how an all black school worked out for the benefit of the students.

1. Of course there is prejudice about whites among other groups. See Gimy's video (although I haven't seen it, I can assume the subject matter on memes will help). I'm really not sure why you don't understand my point on this. Of course other groups may have prejudice toward whites, but when they are not the ones wielding most of the power in society, their racism cannot become part of the system. White prejudice can and has been institutionalized in this country.

2. Segregation is something both groups do. It's not the 50s, and groups *can* live together. We all choose not to. That's not, IMO, a good thing. No? As you can see above, nobody is trying to say "segregation is bad except sometimes." I'm saying that it looks like, from the school here in Mpls, when a group who achieve less when they compare themselves to other groups is in a school by themselves, they may achieve more. Same reason why some people approve of all-girl schools. Others don't. I have no idea and I'm not an education professional, so I can't tell you if the higher test scores benefit the students more than the cost of going to school in a non-real-world environment.

I know I already made that point a few graphs ago, but I really want to make sure you read that one.

[Fandango 1,439]

1. Of course there is prejudice about whites among other groups. See Gimy's video (although I haven't seen it, I can assume the subject matter on memes will help). I'm really not sure why you don't understand my point on this. Of course other groups may have prejudice toward whites, but when they are not the ones wielding most of the power in society, their racism cannot become part of the system. White prejudice can and has been institutionalized in this country.

2. Segregation is something both groups do. It's not the 50s, and groups *can* live together. We all choose not to. That's not, IMO, a good thing. No? As you can see above, nobody is trying to say "segregation is bad except sometimes." I'm saying that it looks like, from the school here in Mpls, when a group who achieve less when they compare themselves to other groups is in a school by themselves, they may achieve more. Same reason why some people approve of all-girl schools. Others don't. I have no idea and I'm not an education professional, so I can't tell you if the higher test scores benefit the students more than the cost of going to school in a non-real-world environment.

1. Is it racism or not?

2. What would you say if a school had an all-white policy?

Alex, please don't misunderstand...I am not 'out to make you look stupid'...we just happen to see things differently on this matter. But my posts are not written in haste, nor with a malicious intent. I only point out where I see inconsistancies in your logic IMO...

Edited September 2, 2006 by LisaD

[mawilson 2,133]

[Alex+R 0]

1. Of course there is prejudice about whites among other groups. See Gimy's video (although I haven't seen it, I can assume the subject matter on memes will help). I'm really not sure why you don't understand my point on this. Of course other groups may have prejudice toward whites, but when they are not the ones wielding most of the power in society, their racism cannot become part of the system. White prejudice can and has been institutionalized in this country.

2. Segregation is something both groups do. It's not the 50s, and groups *can* live together. We all choose not to. That's not, IMO, a good thing. No? As you can see above, nobody is trying to say "segregation is bad except sometimes." I'm saying that it looks like, from the school here in Mpls, when a group who achieve less when they compare themselves to other groups is in a school by themselves, they may achieve more. Same reason why some people approve of all-girl schools. Others don't. I have no idea and I'm not an education professional, so I can't tell you if the higher test scores benefit the students more than the cost of going to school in a non-real-world environment.

1. Is it racism or not?

2. What would you say if a school had an all-white policy?

I am operating on the premise that blacks' prejudice against whites IS NOT EQUAL TO whites' prejudice against blacks.

You are operating on the premise that they are exactly the same, have exactly the same effects.

There is no point in arguing with you because I don't think you are going to see beyond that.

To you, a school's all-black policy would be equal to an all-white policy. It's that simple for you, and with no nuances, differences, or taking into account hundreds of years of history. How could I begin to address that question when you come from that viewpoint?

"We'll just have to agree to disagree."

edit to add: PS don't worry I'm not actually offended! It's just VJ!

Edited September 2, 2006 by Alex+R

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

But you can't sit here and extoll the virtues of Affirmative Action and why we need it, claim there's no 'reverse racism' (which I'll agree just on the term but there is deffo anti-white racism alive and well which I think you yourself provided and example of, ty), then make that statement about segregation above...then say how an all black school worked out for the benefit of the students.

Maybe Alex is trying to say that it's ok to have all-black schools (because reverse racism

"doesn't exist") , but not all-white schools?

IMHO an all black school is as racist as you can get. And there is no such thing as 'rerverse racism'. There's just racism.

[Fandango 1,439]

1. Of course there is prejudice about whites among other groups. See Gimy's video (although I haven't seen it, I can assume the subject matter on memes will help). I'm really not sure why you don't understand my point on this. Of course other groups may have prejudice toward whites, but when they are not the ones wielding most of the power in society, their racism cannot become part of the system. White prejudice can and has been institutionalized in this country.

2. Segregation is something both groups do. It's not the 50s, and groups *can* live together. We all choose not to. That's not, IMO, a good thing. No? As you can see above, nobody is trying to say "segregation is bad except sometimes." I'm saying that it looks like, from the school here in Mpls, when a group who achieve less when they compare themselves to other groups is in a school by themselves, they may achieve more. Same reason why some people approve of all-girl schools. Others don't. I have no idea and I'm not an education professional, so I can't tell you if the higher test scores benefit the students more than the cost of going to school in a non-real-world environment.

1. Is it racism or not?

2. What would you say if a school had an all-white policy?

I am operating on the premise that blacks' prejudice against whites IS NOT EQUAL TO whites' prejudice against blacks.

You are operating on the premise that they are exactly the same, have exactly the same effects.

There is no point in arguing with you because I don't think you are going to see beyond that.

To you, a school's all-black policy would be equal to an all-white policy. It's that simple for you, and with no nuances, differences, or taking into account hundreds of years of history. How could I begin to address that question when you come from that viewpoint?

"We'll just have to agree to disagree."

edit to add: PS don't worry I'm not actually offended! It's just VJ!

I never started quantifying anything....I'm really curious. first you say there's no 'reverse racism' (in context meaning racism against whites, which is just simply racism) but then you freely admit there is anti-white racism. I didn't ask you to quantify it...I asked if you feel it exists. From what you said about the 'reverse racism' you said it didn't exist. But now you say racism against whites does? If you agree anti-white racism exists....what were you talking about when you said there was no such thing as reverse racism?

Secondly....are you saying that as a white woman, I don't have the right to be upset about hearing about an all-black school, or a 'chocolate' New Orleans, or anything else like that? Are you saying that somehow my civil liberties are worth less because I just so happened to be born white? Come on, Alex...look at what you're saying here. Anti-white racism is ok because we're the majority? IMy pain is not equal to someone else's? Anti-white racism is ok because it benefits minorities? Please explain this...I would LOVE to hear your reasoning here. Not being snippy...I really am intrigued here.

This is honestly shocking!

Please feel free to answer the questions...if you feel I'm 'not getting' something, then by all means explain away. Don't imply I'm incapable of 'getting it'...I feel it's the easy thing to say 'oh nevermind' because I think I've pointed out some inconsistancies that are hard to explain.....

So yeah, don't give up here...I'm all ears (or eyes) and would love for you to explain this more in depth!

[Scott & Lai 12]

Enlighten me. I'm sure it's a white conspiracy of some sort that keeps the black dads away from their kids and their kids' mothers. Or the conspiracy where white people manufacture and sell pants to black folks where the zippers don't stay closed? Something like that? Let's have it.

Oh, and let's not forget the Govt. job where white people stand at black men's doors to keep them from going to work.... "Sorry, you can't leave the house unless you plan on congregating on street corners selling drugs and threatening decent people."

[Alex+R 0]

Lisa,

If you feel they are inconsistencies, then I really don't know how to explain it to you in a way that won't take up more time than it's worth!

1. I think racism exists. Anyone can be racist against anyone. The meaning of "reverse racism" I've always heard has come from bigoted white males feeling sorry for themselves. I didn't mean racism from minorities against the majority does not exist. That would be ridiculous.

Racism is never ok, and never acceptable. We always should be working to change it, and we have to realize that all of us have some piece of racism in us. It's unavoidable.

2. The school I mentioned was not all-black in that they excluded whites. It was in an all-black neighborhood and geared toward the black community. I believe they have 2% students of other races there, if I am remembering right. Nobody is being excluded, but the fact that no whites go there is indicative of something to me.

Your civil liberties are worth just as much as anyone elses. All civil liberties were created equal, thank god. You also have the right to be pissed off about anything you want.

3. Fact: blacks make less money, have a lower standard of living, and less education than whites, on average.

Whether you think equalling that out is the responsibility of the whole society (which I do) or just the blacks themselves (which I believe is your vantage point) is the question.

For people who feel like society needs to do something about that, solutions that favor minorities are a temporary solution.

4. If you believe a member of a minority group enjoys the same freedom from prejudice that you probably don't realize you do on a daily basis, then you are deluded. Things are not as equal as you and I both wish they would be.

3.