Seniority vs Competence in Teacher Lay-offs

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Bill targets seniority in teacher layoffs

A new state senate bill aims to require California school districts to base teacher layoffs on job performance rather than seniority.

SB 355 will allow school districts to retain quality teachers as they work to maintain balanced budgets, said the bill's author state Senator Bob Huff, R-Diamond Bar.

"Teachers have the power to change lives," Huff said, in a written statement. "It's in the state legislature's best interests to give school districts the flexibility they need to retain the teachers that best serve students."

Across the state, scores of cash-strapped school districts are preparing to issues layoff notices to teachers to help eliminate looming budget deficits. State law requires districts notify by March 15 teacher facing layoffs.

In Orange County, most of the 28 schools districts are expected to issue layoff notices over the next two weeks. Trustees in Capistrano Unified have already approved sending out notices to 346 teachers.

Last year, the county shed 1,472 teaching jobs, according to state teacher salary reports. Most of those were teachers with the least experience.

Teachers unions have said that basing layoffs on seniority is currently the fairest system available.

Officials with the California Teacher's Union have said teacher performance measures are too inconsistent and unproven to solely base layoffs on. Student demographics and other factors beyond teachers' control can significantly impact performance measures, they said.

SB 355 is currently before the state Assembly's Committee on Education. Lawmakers may vote on the bill later this year.

http://www.ocregister.com/news/teachers-290292-state-districts.html

[^_^ 5,021]

I'm currently helping my wife with her grad thesis, basically the data part where they compare test scores for a class of students before a class to scores on the same test after the class is over. It occurred to me that simply tallying same-student scores and treating each students progress (or lack of) as the same isn't very appropriate. For example, in a class of 20 if 5 show incredible improvement and 10 show deterioration with the remainder not seeing a statistically significant change in test scores, did the teacher do well? Tallying the numbers of students who went up vs down paints a poor picture for the teacher. Calculating movement in the mean paints a good picture. You could look at the median, but if we hold teachers responsible for the lowest extremes I'd also think we ought to give them credit for the highest - and those are lost in a median based measurement. I don't really know the answer (maybe there isn't one) to this but whatever it is it won't be simple.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I'm currently helping my wife with her grad thesis, basically the data part where they compare test scores for a class of students before a class to scores on the same test after the class is over. It occurred to me that simply tallying same-student scores and treating each students progress (or lack of) as the same isn't very appropriate. For example, in a class of 20 if 5 show incredible improvement and 10 show deterioration with the remainder not seeing a statistically significant change in test scores, did the teacher do well? Tallying the numbers of students who went up vs down paints a poor picture for the teacher. Calculating movement in the mean paints a good picture. You could look at the median, but if we hold teachers responsible for the lowest extremes I'd also think we ought to give them credit for the highest - and those are lost in a median based measurement. I don't really know the answer (maybe there isn't one) to this but whatever it is it won't be simple.

I don't know if you have seen this, but among those that should know, Principals have a pretty good idea who is and who is not performing. I suppose that would make some of the evaluation process political, but at the same time, those scores are something that could be used to sort the grain from the chaff. The military has been using personnel evaluations to score for promotion for decades, and their method seems to work well. One thing that makes system workable, is that the raters evaluations are weighted on how they score, not just what the scores are, and each rated individual is rated by two senior reviewers that add less and less to the overall score.

There is a built in resentment among the teachers themselves, for the senior, the senile, and the incompetent, that prevent new blood from joining their ranks.

[^_^ 5,021]

There is a built in resentment among the teachers themselves, for the senior, the senile, and the incompetent, that prevent new blood from joining their ranks.

It is very difficult here in this state for any new teacher to join a public school. They run it like a fiefdom.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I'm currently helping my wife with her grad thesis, basically the data part where they compare test scores for a class of students before a class to scores on the same test after the class is over. It occurred to me that simply tallying same-student scores and treating each students progress (or lack of) as the same isn't very appropriate. For example, in a class of 20 if 5 show incredible improvement and 10 show deterioration with the remainder not seeing a statistically significant change in test scores, did the teacher do well? Tallying the numbers of students who went up vs down paints a poor picture for the teacher. Calculating movement in the mean paints a good picture. You could look at the median, but if we hold teachers responsible for the lowest extremes I'd also think we ought to give them credit for the highest - and those are lost in a median based measurement. I don't really know the answer (maybe there isn't one) to this but whatever it is it won't be simple.

I think the criteria on which it is based is PHONEY! Save your college money and teach the kids individually.A PHD aint gonna make the wife a better teacher!

[^_^ 5,021]

I think the criteria on which it is based is PHONEY! Save your college money and teach the kids individually.A PHD aint gonna make the wife a better teacher!

I didn't even have to look up your name history to know it's you, Marc. Good to see you again!

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I didn't even have to look up your name history to know it's you, Marc. Good to see you again!

You can see me? Shouldn't you be getting ready for the apocalypse? lol.

[^_^ 5,021]

You can see me? Shouldn't you be getting ready for the apocalypse? lol.

Wow, so clever, as always.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Wow, so clever, as always.

You still have a job? I would have offed you long ago. Must be Union heh?

Edited March 2, 2011 by Unions suck

[^_^ 5,021]

You still have a job? I would have offed you long ago. Must be Union heh?

Must be.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Must be.

I figured you'd be livin with yo momma by now.

[^_^ 5,021]

I figured you'd be livin with yo momma by now.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Th ereal question is..."How did they get seniority without competence?"

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Th ereal question is..."How did they get seniority without competence?"

Much like other civil servants, there is a presumption that if you meet the requirements, you can do the job.