Ukraine feminists protest ‘Win a Wife’ competition

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

FSU women are NOT for beginners.

Why? I mean...why would you "notice"? Who give a rat's pa-toot?

RUB women are the best imo, but like you say they are not for beginners...at least most of the ones I met. There can be a cold streak with some of them that makes Stalin look like an alter boy. Especially when they get that low and no emotion voice to them...that kind of voice tone that makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up and the next thing you know you catch yourself thinking of how to get the f'k out of the room with all your body parts still intact.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

RUB women are the best imo, but like you say they are not for beginners...at least most of the ones I met. There can be a cold streak with some of them that makes Stalin look like an alter boy. Especially when they get that low and no emotion voice to them...that kind of voice tone that makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up and the next thing you know you catch yourself thinking of how to get the f'k out of the room with all your body parts still intact.

Definitely tops. But I laugh at the people who insinuate they are submissive "stepford wives"

[Captain Hammer 113]

You are wrong. I have been to Russia one time. None of the prostitutes I saw in Russia were "forced" into anything. They were quite happy being prostitutes, even to the point of bragging.

Most of the FSU prostitutes I've had contact with (and no, not "hiring" them) were in Asia or the Middle East. To a woman, they were all volunteers.

I haven't been in your shoes, don't know your circumstances, and so I can't say what you have seen and what you haven't seen. I will say, however, that it is the rare sex slave that is going to confess her plight to someone she's just met. In fact, I would expect a sex slave who faces the prospect of a beating or worse if she doesn't make quota to "brag" or say other things to get herself noticed or the potential customer comfortable with the idea of having sex with her. I'm sure there are many men who relish the idea of having non-consensual sex with a woman, but a larger number of men prefer to have, at the very least, a comfortable illusion that the woman is happy and willing.

I do not deny that there are prostitutes who enjoy their jobs. We can look at the various "bunny ranches" in Nevada to see that a clean, professional environment offers satisfaction to both clientelle and employees. As you get into the streets of the third world, however, most prostitutes are forced prostitutes who would much rather be anywhere else than with you on top of her. She is not going to tell you that though.

But you're agreeing they did volunteer for a "job" making big money overseas, right? A job that may or may not be 100% legal, right? A job in a country that may or may not have a stellar reputation for being a safe place for young foreign women, right?

I'm saying that the job they signed up for in many cases doesn't turn out to be the job they wind up with. Legal or illegal is splitting hairs. Poverty plays into these kinds of moves as well. You are not going to see a lot of Ukrainian women with advanced degrees hooking on the streets of Bangkok. These are women who are desperate to begin with, and when they are told they can make money as a nanny in Egypt, they cling to it. I suppose you could blame them for being willing to believe what you and I would consider an obvious lie, but on the flip side, the men who lure these women are not stupid. They have scripts that have been proven to work, and they refine them constantly.

What if they took a contract job in Chile?

Couldn't we reasonably expect their "protection" to be lessened? Risk mitigation typically stops at one's own borders unless there's a lot of money involved and everything is on the up and up. When you make a shady deal with a shady "tour operator" or "job clearing house" couldn't you reasonably expect you might get hoodwinked?

I'm not sure if you're pulling my leg or not. You're saying here that it's the victim's fault for allowing themselves to be hoodwinked. By implication, they have only themselves to blame for being brutalized, raped, enslaved, maimed, and even murdered. You place absolutely no blame whatsoever on either the people who do this to them, or the customers who drive the trade?

Been watching Taken again?

I watch almost no TV. I don't know what Taken is, sorry.

You indicate these women are lured into it. Lured. That's an interesting contrast to "forced."

Again, I've half a mind to think my leg is being pulled here. "Lured," as in the women are lured into thinking they are going overseas to work as a nanny, nurse, housekeeper, etc. "Forced" as in, once they reach their destination they are forced into sex slavery.

Couldn't we argue that the women themselves are the problem?

Couldn't we just argue that the customers who drive the trade are the problem? Couldn't we just argue that the governments who do nothing about it are the problem? Couldn't we just argue that law enforcment who look the other way are the problem? There are so many parts of the problem that it's ridiculous to focus on just one part of the problem. But if you are asking me to consider that the actual victims--the women--are the problem, then no. I can't argue that, sorry. It's a horrific argument to make.

Continued next post, I guess there's a limit to the number of quotes on this board.

[Captain Hammer 113]

I mean, they keep volunteering to go. If they would just stop going, wouldn't this problem sort itself out? These feminists are blaming everyone else but each other.

You might have a point if the people who run the sex trade came to them and said, "hey look, we're going to bring you over to a foreign city where you will be forced into prostitution. You will be beaten if you try to leave. You will be beaten if you don't make your quota. You will probably be beaten by the customer if he pays a little extra. Many of our customers will demand unprotected sex, which you will agree to, or you will be beaten. When you are not working the streets for 12-18 hours at a time, you will live in the most squalid, filthy conditions imaginable. While you are on the streets, you will be in constant danger from corrupt law enforcment, rival operations, and even the men who employee you. Some of the men who pick you up will beat you, possibly murder you, but very likely won't pay you. If you survive those experiences, you will be expected to make up the difference. You will have no access to medical care, and if you should turn up pregnant then we will use a coat hanger to make sure you can contine to work. You will see almost none of the money you take in, and to ensure your compliance we will addict you to heroine or some other drug. At the point you are no longer able to bring in the customers because of the toll this life has taken on your body and spirit, if you are still alive, you will be kicked out on the streets. it is very likely you will die of exposure or crime." Given that kind of full disclosure, yes, I think your argument that "they deserved it" might carry a little more weight.

My wife and her sister have both done contract jobs in Korea and Japan. Zero problems. Why? Because they weren't "lured" into anything.

Good for them, I'm happy they were able to navigate that trade without problems. Many are not so lucky.

People here are sometimes "lured" into selling crack. Do we blame the system or protest everyone else? NO! We hold the crackheads and crack dealers accountable. Why is this "illegal sex trade" any different?

I've no clue what the point is you're trying to make here.

I'm happy to discuss the illegal sex trade, as it's something I have a little knowledge about from my professional career in government. I don't, however, have a good handle on the drug trade in the US, and what the nuances are. I expect though that like the illegal sex trade in Eastern Europe, the nuances are varied and many, and it doesn't lend itself to easy answers either.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I will argue the women being paid to show their breasts and hold signs in a foreign language are doing nothing to help the problem. But I have NO objection to their protests.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Couldn't we just argue that the customers who drive the trade are the problem?

####### ? How are the customers the problem ?

[^_^ 5,021]

####### ? How are the customers the problem ?

You need buyers and sellers. If a certain form of trade is objectionable, blame for that is rightly set on both the buyers and the sellers.

Do you disagree?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

You need buyers and sellers. If a certain form of trade is objectionable, blame for that is rightly set on both the buyers and the sellers.

Do you disagree?

Ya I disagree. Too often peeps these days don't take responsibility. It's like that person a few years back who sued McDonalds for hot coffee spilling on their lap when they were drinking it while they were driving.

[^_^ 5,021]

Ya I disagree. Too often peeps these days don't take responsibility. It's like that person a few years back who sued McDonalds for hot coffee spilling on their lap when they were drinking it while they were driving.

That's a poorly structured analogy. There is nothing objectionable about McDonalds selling coffee to customers. At least not to me, and I assume not to you. I am referring to trade that we agree is objectionable. The white flesh trade is an example of a form of trade I hope we both agree is objectionable. At blame for this form of trade are the producers (governments, pimps, etc.) and consumers.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Definitely tops. But I laugh at the people who insinuate they are submissive "stepford wives"

I'm wondering if there is such a thing as a submissive RUB woman. I would love to meet one...well it's too late now...but it would still be nice to meet just one so I could say Iv'e actually met one in person.

[^_^ 5,021]

I'm wondering if there is such a thing as a submissive RUB woman. I would love to meet one...well it's too late now...but it would still be nice to meet just one so I could say Iv'e actually met one in person.

Try roleplaying. I'm sure she wouldn't mind roleplaying a sub for a while.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

That's a poorly structured analogy. There is nothing objectionable about McDonalds selling coffee to customers. At least not to me, and I assume not to you. I am referring to trade that we agree is objectionable. The white flesh trade is an example of a form of trade I hope we both agree is objectionable. At blame for this form of trade are the producers (governments, pimps, etc.) and consumers.

I'm against the illegal trafficking of human beings, but I am not against someone who voluntarily prostitutes themselves...that's their own business, and in a lot of country's it's licensed, taxed, and perfectly legal.

[^_^ 5,021]

I'm against the illegal trafficking of human beings, but I am not against someone who voluntarily prostitutes themselves...that's their own business, and in a lot of country's it's licensed, taxed, and perfectly legal.

Agreed, my comments on this thread have all been in the context of trafficking. In that context, do you agree that consumers and producers are both at blame?

I will grant you though, that IMO producers are more at blame.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You need buyers and sellers. If a certain form of trade is objectionable, blame for that is rightly set on both the buyers and the sellers.

Do you disagree?

So with all this knowledge, how is it we still have illegal aliens working here? Because the "buyers" are at fault and no one can figure it out?

There is no "fault" in prostitution. They are laws to tell women what they can do with their bodies. The same women that object to being told they cannot have an abortion are OK with the government telling you that you cannot rent your body for profit. Who's body is it? Prostituion should not even be addressed in government laws. It is no one's business but the seller and buyer.

the women protesting in Ukraine and just making money. It is very common practice there to PAY people to "protest" or "rally" or whatever. It is all for show. The economy sucks, it is hard to make a living, there are craploads of hot sexy women everywhere you look that need to eat and pay for their flat. Any of them will jump up and down bare breasted for $50, probably for $25 and walk away thinking the one that paid them is the fool. I can walk out of our flat in Donetsk and get 12 of them before I make it to the corner, Wanna bet? They just made a full 3 day's pay for 20 minutes of jumping and screaming and showing their tits. Who is the fool? Who is a prostitute? Who is paying for prostitutes?

This whole "human trafficking" angle is someone's overworked imagination. Show me a FEMEN demostration that says anything about trafficking and the sex trade. They are a tourist attraction and nothing more.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Agreed, my comments on this thread have all been in the context of trafficking. In that context, do you agree that consumers and producers are both at blame?

I will grant you though, that IMO producers are more at blame.

Agree with you to a point. I mean I don't go for peeps who are into sleazy illegal sex with someone against their will...or sex of any kind with someone against their will, minors, and all that other weird stuff.