Ukraine feminists protest ‘Win a Wife’ competition

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

My wife shed a little more information on this article because what you read is only the tip of the ice berg: the women are protesting the "win a wife" contest, but what is at the core of their protest is the sex trade industry and how Ukrainian women are being brutalized, raped, and even killed because of it. These "win a wife" contests only cause more problems and sometimes it's sex traders who are behind these gimmicks. It's because of attitudes like "win a wife" that turn women into mere commodities to be treated like cattle. I don't know about anyone else, but my Ukrainian wife was outraged. Rightly so imho.

That may or may not be at the core of the protest for the organizers. The women you see are paid actresses who probably have little clue what they are protesting. Notice that none of their signs say anything about "Win a Wife" nor would protesting with signs in English be very effective in Ukraine...except for TV cameras for YOUR benefit. FEMEN is exploiting women also.

If your wife wants to blame someone for the "sex trade" then she need look no farther than her own government. Why is that the government so heavily taxes people that they feel it necessary to try and earn so much money "under the table"? Why is the gross national product of Ukraine so low when they are rich in resources and have virtually the only ice free ports in that part of the world and carry virually all the natural gas in their pipelines for eastern Europe, Turkey? Why do women in Ukraine even WANT to go and sell their bodies in foreign countries and why are they willing to be "tricked" into going to foreign countries? Because they want to get the heck OUT of Ukraine! I am not saying everyone wants to leave, it is not true. I am saying that a larger than normal percentage do. If you doubt what I am saying then check out what happened in the early and mid 90s in the porn industry. After perestroika and the fall of communism in eastern Europe, the porn industry was flooded with eastern European/FSU women. From the FSU, Czech Republic, Hungary, etc. As things imporved in other countries that tide ended. The women didn't WANT to be in porn, they saw it as a way to escape the economic disaster in their own countries. NOW they have shifted to taking over the modeling industry. They dominate that trade now (rightfully so) and it is a Russian girl on the cover of SI swimsuit edition this year. Big surprise. You want to end the sex trade in the FSU? Then stop the political backbiting and improve the economy!

And how the #### is this any different than our stupid "reality shows" (who coined that BS phrase?) Such as "Bachelor" or the others where a man or woman "wins" a bride or groom? Jeeezum! They even had one series where women in their 40s were pitted against women in their 20s to compete for a man in his 30's I think they called it "kittens vs. cougars" Yeah, that's OK right?

As for me, I am pro-choice. If some women in Ukraine want to be the prize in a "win a wife" contest, or some women in the US want to be featured on TV "competing" against other women for a man...why should I give a flying ####? If a woman wants to be a prostitute in UAE or Saudi Arabia, who are you or I or your wife to say "no"?

[~Johnny~ 27]

They even had one series where women in their 40s were pitted against women in their 20s to compete for a man in his 30's I think they called it "kittens vs. cougars" Yeah, that's OK right?

Damn!!! I got to stop watching History and Discovery channels and okkkk BBC... I like Top Gear.... but Kittens vs Cougars ???? Is that on Oprah's network with Dr Phil analyzing the loosers and why they lost??... now that actually sounds like good wholesome American trailer park fun. Maybe they she should do Trailer Park Mommies vs Trailer Park Daughters fighting for the same boyfriend show?? That may be too much "real" reality for the American public...

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Damn!!! I got to stop watching History and Discovery channels and okkkk BBC... I like Top Gear.... but Kittens vs Cougars ???? Is that on Oprah's network with Dr Phil analyzing the loosers and why they lost??... now that actually sounds like good wholesome American trailer park fun. Maybe they she should do Trailer Park Mommies vs Trailer Park Daughters fighting for the same boyfriend show?? That may be too much "real" reality for the American public...

Stop talking like that! You are making Slim crazy and he is already calling the producers asking for sloppy seconds or the trailer park episode rejects!

I only recently got TV after a 10 year hiatus. I heard open this somewhere. I must have seen a commerical while waiting somewhere, maybe waiting for my brakes to get done, I don't remember. I DO remember thinking "what kind of birdbrain would choose a 20-something woman over a 40-something woman?"

[Captain Hammer 113]

That may or may not be at the core of the protest for the organizers.

They are.

The women you see are paid actresses who probably have little clue what they are protesting. Notice that none of their signs say anything about "Win a Wife" nor would protesting with signs in English be very effective in Ukraine...except for TV cameras for YOUR benefit. FEMEN is exploiting women also.

They're not paid actresses, they're members of Femen. Ask your wife about them. Their tactics may seem silly, it's not a way I'd personally have them go, but their motivations are very serious.

If your wife wants to blame someone for the "sex trade" then she need look no farther than her own government.

Sure ok. But everything in your tl;dr doesn't change anything about the protesters and their motives, which were not entirely represented in the linked story.

And how the #### is this any different than our stupid "reality shows" (who coined that BS phrase?) Such as "Bachelor" or the others where a man or woman "wins" a bride or groom? Jeeezum! They even had one series where women in their 40s were pitted against women in their 20s to compete for a man in his 30's I think they called it "kittens vs. cougars" Yeah, that's OK right?

I don't watch TV, haven't taken a stance one way or the other on reality shows. It's fortunate that my opinion or TV watching habits has nothing to do with Fema and the illegal sex trade in Ukraine.

As for me, I am pro-choice. If some women in Ukraine want to be the prize in a "win a wife" contest, or some women in the US want to be featured on TV "competing" against other women for a man...why should I give a flying ####? If a woman wants to be a prostitute in UAE or Saudi Arabia, who are you or I or your wife to say "no"?

I agree. If it's a woman's choice, that's cool. That's why I said that the news story is only showing the tip of the iceberg because the contest is only part of it. Protesting against the illegal sex trade where real women are brutalized, raped, murdered, and very often never heard from or seen again. My wife was able to fill in the rest of the details for me, based on her own knowledge of her own country. Maybe your wife can do the same so you can be a little more informed on the matter.

Regarding just the bride contest portion, just as we have our own opinions it's not wrong if Fema want to express their own opinions about contest brides. Good for them for speaking their minds, maybe real democracy will someday come to the country.

[slim 1,525]

Protesting against the illegal sex trade where real women are brutalized, raped, murdered, and very often never heard from or seen again. My wife was able to fill in the rest of the details for me, based on her own knowledge of her own country. Maybe your wife can do the same so you can be a little more informed on the matter.

I've personally met FSU women in a variety of countries who are involved in this "illegal sex trade." While the trade itself may be illegal, 99.9% of these women signed up to do it. It's not like they were kidnapped into it. Most sign a contract and borrow money for the privilege of making big $$$ in foreign countries.

Yes, sometimes they show up and are forced into prostitution while they were supposed to be a dancer or waitress or something like that. But, that's a risk of the job they've signed on to do. Coal miners face similar risks. It's supposed to be safe but sh!t happens. If you don't want to die in a coal mine, don't be a coal miner. If you don't want to participate in the "illegal sex trade" then don't borrow $8,000 from the mafia to fly to a third-world country.

Like feminists here, the feminists there want you to think it's some man's fault these girls are victimized. Like the girls here... it's their own fault.

[AmyWrites 593]

As a sexy feminist, I take offense at some of the posts in this thread

What's so wrong with women choosing to be part of these contests or be involved in sex trade or having a good career or anything? If it's her choice, let her do it. Feminism should be about allowing women to do whatever the hell they please with their lives, not about putting some societal pressure or anything worse on them in order to ensure they do the "right" thing. So if these "feminists" (or paid actresses according to some people here, I'm not familiar with the organization), want to protest and make a fool out of their own cause, let them.

IMO, most feminists want women to fit into a specific mold as much as patriarchal societies do. In one, if you're not a career oriented woman who refuses to be sexy, you're submissive, and in the other, if you have any interest in having your own life outside of husband + kids, you're a crazed feminazi.

And as for those who think having an FSU wife is easy (not saying anyone here has said that, but just the stereotypes)... clearly they haven't seen an FSU woman angry

Edited March 4, 2011 by AmyWrites

[baron555 934]

And as for those who think having an FSU wife is easy (not saying anyone here has said that, but just the stereotypes)... clearly they haven't seen an FSU woman angry

Ah, Hah....the key has been revealed. Never let her be angry !!!

Has worked so far for me....and she fits the stereotypical mold perfectly.

[Captain Hammer 113]

I've personally met FSU women in a variety of countries who are involved in this "illegal sex trade." While the trade itself may be illegal, 99.9% of these women signed up to do it. It's not like they were kidnapped into it. Most sign a contract and borrow money for the privilege of making big $$$ in foreign countries.

It's perhaps true that 99.9% of the prostitutes you have met in Ukraine are "voluneers," I have no way of knowing your personal experiences. But the World Health Organization statistics don't line up with your own observations. For starters, I'm assuming your personal experiences with prostitutes have been in Ukraine or other former Soviet countries. I could be wrong. The illegal sex trade where the most women are brutalized, however, happens out of country. As you say, many of them are lured into believing they will be employed in other professions--dancing sometimes yes, but also as nannys, house cleaners, hospitality employees, and other job descriptions that have nothing to do with sex. Yes, many of these women are naive and easily duped. Being naive, however, does not make it their fault when they are shipped off to Egypt thinking they will be a housekeeper in a hotel, but in actuality are forcably pushed into prostitution, cut off from everyone they know, and subject to brutalization or worse in the process. It is very easy to flippantly say that this is the job they chose, but in fact in most cases it's not the job they signed on for.

Yes, sometimes they show up and are forced into prostitution while they were supposed to be a dancer or waitress or something like that. But, that's a risk of the job they've signed on to do. Coal miners face similar risks. It's supposed to be safe but sh!t happens. If you don't want to die in a coal mine, don't be a coal miner. If you don't want to participate in the "illegal sex trade" then don't borrow $8,000 from the mafia to fly to a third-world country.

Yes, coal miners are exposed to dangers. However, at least in this country, coal miners can (or should) count on very stringent safety measures to ensure that the risks in this highly dangerous line of work are mitigated. They are given safety equipment, attend training on risk mitigation, safety procedures, and disaster survival training and resources. If a coal miner doesn't like the job, they can walk out of the mine at any time. Coal miners don't have the threat of brutalization, rape, or death hanging over their head. They can count on a more-or-less consistent salary, they usually have health benefits, and if they are ever concerned about how they are being treated or the conditions at their place of work, they have resources that will protect them. A woman who has been lured into the sex trade has none of this. Drugs are used to control these women, very often forced onto them until they become addicted. (yes, some of them show up addicted, which just makes it all the easier to control them) If she isn't raped or brutalized by her captors, she is raped or brutalized by the clients she is farmed out to. When a woman becomes so disfigured, pregnant, or is in some other way unable to "perform," she is often killed or (if she is very, very lucky) just kicked out onto the streets with no resources, no connections, and often no sympathy from the local government.

Like feminists here, the feminists there want you to think it's some man's fault these girls are victimized. Like the girls here... it's their own fault.

I don't think this problem needs to be boiled down into gender wars. It's not "man's" problem, it is an institutional problem. If you take a trip to Bangledesh or Taiwan, and pay a man for sex with a prostitute, you are VERY likely contributing to the problem. If you are a Ukrainian cop (male or female) who takes bribes to not notice a sex trade node in operation on your beat, you are part of the problem. If you are a government official who could do something to protect the women under your constituency, but you choose not to, you are part of the problem. There are many ways to be part of the problem, regardless of gender, and like that villain in Spiderman, Sandman, it's made up of zillions of little pieces, all of which make a very huge problem. You can say the feminists are misguided if you want, even wrong in their approach, but they're simply a symptom of a much bigger problem.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

It's perhaps true that 99.9% of the prostitutes you have met in Ukraine are "voluneers," I have no way of knowing your personal experiences. But the World Health Organization statistics don't line up with your own observations. For starters, I'm assuming your personal experiences with prostitutes have been in Ukraine or other former Soviet countries. I could be wrong. The illegal sex trade where the most women are brutalized, however, happens out of country. As you say, many of them are lured into believing they will be employed in other professions--dancing sometimes yes, but also as nannys, house cleaners, hospitality employees, and other job descriptions that have nothing to do with sex. Yes, many of these women are naive and easily duped. Being naive, however, does not make it their fault when they are shipped off to Egypt thinking they will be a housekeeper in a hotel, but in actuality are forcably pushed into prostitution, cut off from everyone they know, and subject to brutalization or worse in the process. It is very easy to flippantly say that this is the job they chose, but in fact in most cases it's not the job they signed on for.

Yes, coal miners are exposed to dangers. However, at least in this country, coal miners can (or should) count on very stringent safety measures to ensure that the risks in this highly dangerous line of work are mitigated. They are given safety equipment, attend training on risk mitigation, safety procedures, and disaster survival training and resources. If a coal miner doesn't like the job, they can walk out of the mine at any time. Coal miners don't have the threat of brutalization, rape, or death hanging over their head. They can count on a more-or-less consistent salary, they usually have health benefits, and if they are ever concerned about how they are being treated or the conditions at their place of work, they have resources that will protect them. A woman who has been lured into the sex trade has none of this. Drugs are used to control these women, very often forced onto them until they become addicted. (yes, some of them show up addicted, which just makes it all the easier to control them) If she isn't raped or brutalized by her captors, she is raped or brutalized by the clients she is farmed out to. When a woman becomes so disfigured, pregnant, or is in some other way unable to "perform," she is often killed or (if she is very, very lucky) just kicked out onto the streets with no resources, no connections, and often no sympathy from the local government.

I don't think this problem needs to be boiled down into gender wars. It's not "man's" problem, it is an institutional problem. If you take a trip to Bangledesh or Taiwan, and pay a man for sex with a prostitute, you are VERY likely contributing to the problem. If you are a Ukrainian cop (male or female) who takes bribes to not notice a sex trade node in operation on your beat, you are part of the problem. If you are a government official who could do something to protect the women under your constituency, but you choose not to, you are part of the problem. There are many ways to be part of the problem, regardless of gender, and like that villain in Spiderman, Sandman, it's made up of zillions of little pieces, all of which make a very huge problem. You can say the feminists are misguided if you want, even wrong in their approach, but they're simply a symptom of a much bigger problem.

Let us know please when the governments of the RUB country's actually start doing something to prevent it instead of promoting it. In Belarus the government is the biggest pimp of them all. From fixing passports and visa's to even providing the air transportation for these women. Just about every city, town, and village in Belarus has "recruiters" looking for young women to send over to Turkey and other Middle East country's...and they work hand in hand with the government...from the police to the ZAGS office, to the government in Minsk itself. Lukashenko and his minions make a killing off of this.

Russia is a little bit better...but not much. White Slavery in the RUB country's is an ongoing thing, and until those country's actually start doing something to prohibit it instead of provoking it...well you get the point.

[Captain Hammer 113]

Let us know please when the governments of the RUB country's actually start doing something to prevent it instead of promoting it. In Belarus the government is the biggest pimp of them all. From fixing passports and visa's to even providing the air transportation for these women. Just about every city, town, and village in Belarus has "recruiters" looking for young women to send over to Turkey and other Middle East country's...and they work hand in hand with the government...from the police to the ZAGS office, to the government in Minsk itself. Lukashenko and his minions make a killing off of this.

I'm puzzled by this, because it almost seems like you think I have said government has no responsibility. As mentioned, I acknowledge the role of government in this crisis. It is a devestating crime, all the way from the highest levels of government (and I speak specifically of Ukraine, although I know it's as bad, even sometimes worse, in other Eastern European countries) to the customer on the street. But what we can be sure of is that it is almost never, ever, the woman who is brutalized into sex slavery's fault. My entire point has been that the linked story in the original post is only covering one tiny bit of the protest. Femen are protesting against the sex trade (slavery) industry in Ukraine, which I think most people will agree is a worthy thing to protest.

Russia is a little bit better...but not much. White Slavery in the RUB country's is an ongoing thing, and until those country's actually start doing something to prohibit it instead of provoking it...well you get the point.

...I don't actually get the point. Until the government does something, we should just say that it's the woman's fault for getting herself into the situation? We have learned many times in this country that government doesn't do anything unless pushed. I would think that the men in this forum would have a particular interest in supporting movements like Femen. After all, it could be your wife's sister, cousin, even daughter, lured into the belly of the sex slaver trade, only to be never heard from again.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I'm puzzled by this, because it almost seems like you think I have said government has no responsibility. As mentioned, I acknowledge the role of government in this crisis. It is a devestating crime, all the way from the highest levels of government (and I speak specifically of Ukraine, although I know it's as bad, even sometimes worse, in other Eastern European countries) to the customer on the street. But what we can be sure of is that it is almost never, ever, the woman who is brutalized into sex slavery's fault. My entire point has been that the linked story in the original post is only covering one tiny bit of the protest. Femen are protesting against the sex trade (slavery) industry in Ukraine, which I think most people will agree is a worthy thing to protest.

...I don't actually get the point. Until the government does something, we should just say that it's the woman's fault for getting herself into the situation? We have learned many times in this country that government doesn't do anything unless pushed. I would think that the men in this forum would have a particular interest in supporting movements like Femen. After all, it could be your wife's sister, cousin, even daughter, lured into the belly of the sex slaver trade, only to be never heard from again.

I don't think any of us here are "pro White Slavery", and I myself...and I'm sure for most others on here feel for these women, and yes I do support FEMAN..and not just because they are hot naked women. I make jokes on here, and I bait, and post some really bad stuff in regards to respecting women...but "most" of it is all in good fun for the fact it drives the PC zombies from the UK, Canada, and MENA forums bezerk. Unfortunately for us in the RUB forum most of the mods on this board have a "maple leaf" under their name.

I have seen more than a few documentary's on the white slave trade in Ukraine in regards to Turkey and it literally makes me sick. I wish something more was done about it. Yes I would bet I'm not the only one on this forum that has taken pleasures from a prostitute(s), (in several country's I might add...cheap airfare ftw), but it was on an all volunteer basis for all party's involved.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Why_Me

[~Johnny~ 27]

I don't think any of us here for "pro White Slavery", and I myself...and I'm sure for most others on there feel for these women, and yes I do support FEMAN..and not just because they are hot naked women. I make jokes on here, and I bait, and post some really bad stuff in regards to respecting women...but "most" of it is all in good fun for the fact it drives the PC zombies from the UK, Canada, and MENA forums bezerk. Unfortunately for us in the RUB forum most of the mods on this board have a "maple leaf" under their name.

I have seen more than a few documentary's on the white slave trade in Ukraine in regards to Turkey and it literally makes me sick. I wish something more was done about it. Yes I would bet I'm not the only one on this forum that has taken pleasures from a prostitute(s), (in several country's I might add...cheap airfare ftw), but it was on an all volunteer basis for all party's involved.

I did notice that MENA post is still going strong....

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I did notice that MENA post is still going strong....

I can only guess at the number of boxes of "bon-bons" that were consumed during all seven + pages of that thread.

[slim 1,525]

I'm assuming your personal experiences with prostitutes have been in Ukraine or other former Soviet countries. I could be wrong.

You are wrong. I have been to Russia one time. None of the prostitutes I saw in Russia were "forced" into anything. They were quite happy being prostitutes, even to the point of bragging.

Most of the FSU prostitutes I've had contact with (and no, not "hiring" them) were in Asia or the Middle East. To a woman, they were all volunteers.

It is very easy to flippantly say that this is the job they chose, but in fact in most cases it's not the job they signed on for.

But you're agreeing they did volunteer for a "job" making big money overseas, right? A job that may or may not be 100% legal, right? A job in a country that may or may not have a stellar reputation for being a safe place for young foreign women, right?

in this country, coal miners can (or should) count on very stringent safety measures to ensure that the risks in this highly dangerous line of work are mitigated. They are given safety equipment, attend training on risk mitigation, safety procedures, and disaster survival training and resources. If a coal miner doesn't like the job, they can walk out of the mine at any time. Coal miners don't have the threat of brutalization, rape, or death hanging over their head. They can count on a more-or-less consistent salary, they usually have health benefits, and if they are ever concerned about how they are being treated or the conditions at their place of work, they have resources that will protect them.

What if they took a contract job in Chile?

Couldn't we reasonably expect their "protection" to be lessened? Risk mitigation typically stops at one's own borders unless there's a lot of money involved and everything is on the up and up. When you make a shady deal with a shady "tour operator" or "job clearing house" couldn't you reasonably expect you might get hoodwinked?

A woman who has been lured into the sex trade has none of this. Drugs are used to control these women, very often forced onto them until they become addicted. (yes, some of them show up addicted, which just makes it all the easier to control them) If she isn't raped or brutalized by her captors, she is raped or brutalized by the clients she is farmed out to. When a woman becomes so disfigured, pregnant, or is in some other way unable to "perform," she is often killed or (if she is very, very lucky) just kicked out onto the streets with no resources, no connections, and often no sympathy from the local government.

Been watching Taken again?

You indicate these women are lured into it. Lured. That's an interesting contrast to "forced."

what we can be sure of is that it is almost never, ever, the woman who is brutalized into sex slavery's fault. My entire point has been that the linked story in the original post is only covering one tiny bit of the protest. Femen are protesting against the sex trade (slavery) industry in Ukraine, which I think most people will agree is a worthy thing to protest.

Couldn't we argue that the women themselves are the problem?

I mean, they keep volunteering to go. If they would just stop going, wouldn't this problem sort itself out? These feminists are blaming everyone else but each other.

...I don't actually get the point. Until the government does something, we should just say that it's the woman's fault for getting herself into the situation? We have learned many times in this country that government doesn't do anything unless pushed. I would think that the men in this forum would have a particular interest in supporting movements like Femen. After all, it could be your wife's sister, cousin, even daughter, lured into the belly of the sex slaver trade, only to be never heard from again.

My wife and her sister have both done contract jobs in Korea and Japan. Zero problems. Why? Because they weren't "lured" into anything.

People here are sometimes "lured" into selling crack. Do we blame the system or protest everyone else? NO! We hold the crackheads and crack dealers accountable. Why is this "illegal sex trade" any different?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

As a sexy feminist, I take offense at some of the posts in this thread

What's so wrong with women choosing to be part of these contests or be involved in sex trade or having a good career or anything? If it's her choice, let her do it. Feminism should be about allowing women to do whatever the hell they please with their lives, not about putting some societal pressure or anything worse on them in order to ensure they do the "right" thing. So if these "feminists" (or paid actresses according to some people here, I'm not familiar with the organization), want to protest and make a fool out of their own cause, let them.

IMO, most feminists want women to fit into a specific mold as much as patriarchal societies do. In one, if you're not a career oriented woman who refuses to be sexy, you're submissive, and in the other, if you have any interest in having your own life outside of husband + kids, you're a crazed feminazi.

And as for those who think having an FSU wife is easy (not saying anyone here has said that, but just the stereotypes)... clearly they haven't seen an FSU woman angry

FSU women are NOT for beginners.

I did notice that MENA post is still going strong....

Why? I mean...why would you "notice"? Who give a rat's pa-toot?