Marriage Fraud, Divorce and a life on hold . . .

[Mark and Rassel 9]

Hi!

This is my first time posting, I've lurked and looked for some time . . . My questions is about a woman that I met on the net who lives in the Philippines. She seems like a fine, upstanding and honest woman who made a mistake about 10 years ago. I'll call her 'Jane' for now . ... .She's the youngest in a family of 9 sibiings, with 6 of them being step sisters and brothers. Unable to secure a position using her math degree, Jane become involved in a marriage to a Japanese fellow. They were married in the Philppines. He initiated the divorce after 2 years in Japan, 3 years after that she was laid off when economy started to sour. She was doing some kind of QA in a LCD factory . . .. She now believes that she is not divorced, and is unable to remarry without an anullment. She was not arrested, deported or caught up in a sting. She has been living in limbo for 5 or 6 years, unable to move forward because of her current marital status. An american friend of mine who lives in the philippines said his fillipino wife is 100% sure she must get her marriage annulled because Japan and the Philippino Goverment exchange update each other on marriage statuses or something to that effect. Some of her friends who did this had to get annullment. From reading this forum (thanks!) and others, it appears that are at least two ways out of this mess - with the first being the most likely:

1) Jane was married in the Philippines, and divorced in Japan. Her husband initiated the divorce, the english translation of the divorce says he initiated it. There is a section in the Family code that says that if this is the case, she is free to remarry. I've read here that there is a necessary court document that must be file that essentially demands the NSO to issue a CENOMAR - or something to that effect.

2) Since the US recognizes Philippine Marriage AND Japanese divorce, a K1 fiance visa can be issued to her. The K3 visa cannot be issued, because obviously she can't get remarried in the RP if #1 is not true. No CENOMAR issued or needed. I've read mixed results on this tact, and it appears to be heavily dependent on the 'luck of the draw' as to how the issue handled at the embassy.

How will the interview process proceed around this issue, what disclosures are required?

Does anyone have the number of a good family attorney in manilla that we could seek some advice on this matter?

Even if we don't hit it off, which I hope we will . . . she is very ashamed of what she did . . . . I'd hate to see this stunningly beautiful and intelligent woman not accomplish what she dreams of. I'd love to just get her started in the right direction, and find some kind of relief her situation . . . .

I'm visiting the Philippines in a week, and visiting her and others as well . . . I'd sure like to give her some good news . . . but she seems to be prepared for the worst . . .

Any ideas? Suggestions? Contacts? Send me a private message if you feel that's the best way.

Thanks for this great forum and for your help and consideration in this matter . . . .

The Poodle Guy

[lee&jeniebee 23]

Hi!

This is my first time posting, I've lurked and looked for some time . . . My questions is about a woman that I met on the net who lives in the Philippines. She seems like a fine, upstanding and honest woman who made a mistake about 10 years ago. I'll call her 'Jane' for now . ... .She's the youngest in a family of 9 sibiings, with 6 of them being step sisters and brothers. Unable to secure a position using her math degree, Jane become involved in a marriage to a Japanese fellow. They were married in the Philppines. He initiated the divorce after 2 years in Japan, 3 years after that she was laid off when economy started to sour. She was doing some kind of QA in a LCD factory . . .. She now believes that she is not divorced, and is unable to remarry without an anullment. She was not arrested, deported or caught up in a sting. She has been living in limbo for 5 or 6 years, unable to move forward because of her current marital status. An american friend of mine who lives in the philippines said his fillipino wife is 100% sure she must get her marriage annulled because Japan and the Philippino Goverment exchange update each other on marriage statuses or something to that effect. Some of her friends who did this had to get annullment. From reading this forum (thanks!) and others, it appears that are at least two ways out of this mess - with the first being the most likely:

1) Jane was married in the Philippines, and divorced in Japan. Her husband initiated the divorce, the english translation of the divorce says he initiated it. There is a section in the Family code that says that if this is the case, she is free to remarry. I've read here that there is a necessary court document that must be file that essentially demands the NSO to issue a CENOMAR - or something to that effect.

2) Since the US recognizes Philippine Marriage AND Japanese divorce, a K1 fiance visa can be issued to her. The K3 visa cannot be issued, because obviously she can't get remarried in the RP if #1 is not true. No CENOMAR issued or needed. I've read mixed results on this tact, and it appears to be heavily dependent on the 'luck of the draw' as to how the issue handled at the embassy.

How will the interview process proceed around this issue, what disclosures are required?

Does anyone have the number of a good family attorney in manilla that we could seek some advice on this matter?

Even if we don't hit it off, which I hope we will . . . she is very ashamed of what she did . . . . I'd hate to see this stunningly beautiful and intelligent woman not accomplish what she dreams of. I'd love to just get her started in the right direction, and find some kind of relief her situation . . . .

I'm visiting the Philippines in a week, and visiting her and others as well . . . I'd sure like to give her some good news . . . but she seems to be prepared for the worst . . .

Any ideas? Suggestions? Contacts? Send me a private message if you feel that's the best way.

Thanks for this great forum and for your help and consideration in this matter . . . .

The Poodle Guy

Poodle Guy,

Ok, my take on this is that your information is correct in that the US will honor a legal divorce from Japan, the question would be: does she have documents to support the divorce or can she get such documents? After you spend some time with her in real life if she turns out as special as you think she may be, it might be best talking to a lawyer, that would be a lawyer in the USA, who knows US Immigration law... Lee

[Pinay Wife 47]

1) Jane was married in the Philippines, and divorced in Japan. Her husband initiated the divorce, the english translation of the divorce says he initiated it. There is a section in the Family code that says that if this is the case, she is free to remarry. I've read here that there is a necessary court document that must be file that essentially demands the NSO to issue a CENOMAR - or something to that effect.

The existence of a valid divorce decree does not automatically entitle the Filipino to remarry in the Philippines. The foreign divorce decree must be judicially recognized in the Philippines. This means that the proper action or petition must be filed in a Philippine court by filing a Petition for the Recognition of a Foreign Judgment of Divorce at the Regional Trial Court. Your fiancee will need an experienced lawyer to do this. Once she has the recognition, she needs to register it with the NSO for annotation to her existing marriage certificate.

2) Since the US recognizes Philippine Marriage AND Japanese divorce, a K1 fiance visa can be issued to her. The K3 visa cannot be issued, because obviously she can't get remarried in the RP if #1 is not true. No CENOMAR issued or needed. I've read mixed results on this tact, and it appears to be heavily dependent on the 'luck of the draw' as to how the issue handled at the embassy.

Once a Philippine court recognizes the foreign divorce decree, she can re-marry again in the Philippines. She will be issued a CEMAR by the NSO but it will have an annotation that it has been recognized by the Philippine government.

How will the interview process proceed around this issue, what disclosures are required?

Answer only what is asked and always tell the truth. She can't go wrong with that.

[pixie77 2]

if the foreigner spouse initiated the divorce she can have it recognized in the Philippines. She just needs to do the proper paper work, perhaps she can consult a lawyer regarding this.

Best of luck! I commend you for wanting to get her started in the right direction.

[rlogan 2,036]

I'd hate to see this stunningly beautiful and intelligent woman not accomplish what she dreams of.

Hi Poodle Guy

"Intelligent" enough to pull marriage fraud on a Japanese victim.

Not intelligent enough or without sufficient drive to fix the problem she caused for herself in five to six years, or even to find out what she needed to have the next guy pay for.

It is her responsibility to know what to do, not to drop it in the lap of someone else.

some of her friends who did this...

Sounds like she runs with some really nice people.

Her dreams did come true - regarding fraud - it's just that those dreams are very short-sighted, irresponsible, and cruel.

There are plenty of Filipinas. Since this one has yet to start her life in the right direction on her own volition, I'd say she isn't so beautiful.

Beauty is as beauty does.

[Mark and Rassel 9]

All -

Thanks for the kind words, you've really made my day. It would be a really nice addition to this site to have a list of Philippino Family Attorneys' listed by region. Any more opinions or advice is greatly appreciated . . . . wish me luck!

The Poodle Guy

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

2) Since the US recognizes Philippine Marriage AND Japanese divorce, a K1 fiance visa can be issued to her. The K3 visa cannot be issued, because obviously she can't get remarried in the RP if #1 is not true. No CENOMAR issued or needed. I've read mixed results on this tact, and it appears to be heavily dependent on the 'luck of the draw' as to how the issue handled at the embassy.

Since everyone else has addressed other parts of your post I'll address this.

You're right & wrong on this scenario.

The US Embassy will accept her Japanese divorce (regardless of who initiated it or if it's been filed with the Philippines courts for recognition in the Philippines). This means that she could get a K-1 Visa issued. That's the YES part.

Here's the NO part: To leave the Philippines with a US K-1 Visa in her passport she will need a CFO Certificate and sticker clearing her to leave the country. CFO will not issue her the certificate & sticker because in order to get it she must prove that she is free to marry but by Philippine Law she isn't.

So, while she may get the K-1 issued she will not be able to use it.

[Mark and Rassel 9]

rlogan,

Ouch - I'm glad that you are are able to see things with such great clarity . . . that's sometimes a challenge for me. To be clear here, Jane did not have friends who did this, but my friends wife did. She decided not to do this - good for her. Jane however, made the wrong decision. I've made wrong decisions too. I do know that in some cultures shame and family obligations are powerful motivators. The need to help family members in times of crisis will often drive people to do things that they normally would not do. She did this 10 years ago as a young woman barely out of her teens. I personally see no reason for her to suffer a life of loss and despair for a mistake done years ago.

She has, to her credit, not blamed anyone except herself for what she did. She has accepted responsibility unconditionally. She hasn't asked me for a dime over the 5 months we've chatted and emailed. No dying relatives, cancer, broken pipes, dental work - nothing. She's spoken of sacrafice, service, family and loss. Either she is an excellent actress, or she feels a deep shame at the mistake that she made - and I've seen the look on her face during our webcam chats while we've spoken about it. I've met a couple of scammers online and I'm fortunate to have not lost anything to them. If Jane is a scammer, she is either the most patient and crafty scammer around or really bad at it! It is very easy to see the world in terms of black and white - good and bad. We all screw up, some worse than others. I've done my fair share of screwing up too. I'm glad that there are people in this world that have lived spotless lives, it gives us all something to aspire to.

Warm Regards,

The Poodle Guy

Hi Poodle Guy

"Intelligent" enough to pull marriage fraud on a Japanese victim.

Not intelligent enough or without sufficient drive to fix the problem she caused for herself in five to six years, or even to find out what she needed to have the next guy pay for.

It is her responsibility to know what to do, not to drop it in the lap of someone else.

Sounds like she runs with some really nice people.

Her dreams did come true - regarding fraud - it's just that those dreams are very short-sighted, irresponsible, and cruel.

There are plenty of Filipinas. Since this one has yet to start her life in the right direction on her own volition, I'd say she isn't so beautiful.

Beauty is as beauty does.

[Mark and Rassel 9]

Bob4Anna,

Thanks for the help . . . . I might be reading too much into this . . . but it seems that if she got the K1, and left to go to a country on a vacation that doesn't require an RP Visa, she could then jump on a airplane from that country and enter the US with her K1 visa -right? I'm assuming that a K1 Visa holder is it is not required to go directly to the US, but can do a vacation . . .but once in the US - they must marry, or leave, or file for an extension of some kind. If that's the case, then as a Plan B, option 1 does have some merit - no?

The Poodle Guy

Since everyone else has addressed other parts of your post I'll address this.

You're right & wrong on this scenario.

The US Embassy will accept her Japanese divorce (regardless of who initiated it or if it's been filed with the Philippines courts for recognition in the Philippines). This means that she could get a K-1 Visa issued. That's the YES part.

Here's the NO part: To leave the Philippines with a US K-1 Visa in her passport she will need a CFO Certificate and sticker clearing her to leave the country. CFO will not issue her the certificate & sticker because in order to get it she must prove that she is free to marry but by Philippine Law she isn't.

So, while she may get the K-1 issued she will not be able to use it.

[sunandmoon 450]

. . .but once in the US - they must marry, or leave, or file for an extension of some kind. The Poodle Guy

there is no extension possible. options would be marry original petitioner, return home or go TNT.

[rlogan 2,036]

I understand the clarification you made Poodle Guy

You listed off some potentially good things.

Sure, I understand forgiveness. But it can't be blind. If I understand the sequence it is at least two years of marriage fraud at over twenty years of age, then a few years working, and now unemployed for three years.

She has not asked for money nor given the "sick caribao" lines. I don't know if or how much you have sent. It matters somewhat.

If her life's dream is to marry someone like you then why in six years has she not taken care of it or else knowing decisively what to do? You came straight here wanting to get the job done in no time. You acted responsibly.

A family has to constructively participated in marriage fraud, at the very least pretending along. You are marrying into a family with Filipinas. They can't use the excuse they were young and pressured into it.

I'd have to see a pretty strong accounting for themselves. Helping the daughter get the divorce recognized in the Philippines for example. The nine of them can use her for fraud but can not pull off a divorce/annullment? I weigh this heavily. Nine people times six years: 54 man-years and no annullment.

Yes we see them constantly on the "Effects of Major Family Changes" page - scammers that put on a successful act right up to the green card.

She's stunningly beautiful. Kind of a no-brainer that influences our thinking.

It sounds like you are going to be there, but also see other girls.

hey, best of luck. There's no ill will here at all.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Bob4Anna,

Thanks for the help . . . . I might be reading too much into this . . . but it seems that if she got the K1, and left to go to a country on a vacation that doesn't require an RP Visa, she could then jump on a airplane from that country and enter the US with her K1 visa -right? I'm assuming that a K1 Visa holder is it is not required to go directly to the US, but can do a vacation . . .but once in the US - they must marry, or leave, or file for an extension of some kind. If that's the case, then as a Plan B, option 1 does have some merit - no?

The Poodle Guy

Once she has a US Immigrant Visa in her Passport she will need the CFO Sticker to leave the Philippines. If she is living/working abroad and has met the residency requirements for the foreign country then she can get a K-1 through the US Embassy in that country. Note that she must not return to the Philippines until she is a US Citizen though or she will get stuck in the Philippines unable to leave without the CFO Clearance.

The best route is to be patient and file for the recognition of foreign divorce.

[mjaye65 5]

Well I went through annulment with my Rina.

She had married a Filipino whom a year after their child was born went to another country to work.

Communication between them at first was good for a year of so then drifted to less and less.

As required he sent money to PI but after leaving PI he changed the routing of the money to an account for his mother and Rina would have to prove cause and need to get some. She is not a beggar so she pulled herself up by the boot straps and carried on. She had three sons from a previous marriage and they needed a strong mother. One of the sons from a previous marriage got sick and eventually died, but while he was deteriotaing in the hospital the husband never called and finally just before the son died he called only to he refuse to help as it was her son from a previous marriage not their son. Anyway he fell in love and remarried in that country and had a child there.

Neither pursued an annulment. She did not make enough and he could care less of course.

When I met her I wondered the same thing as you do. Why wait?

Well it can be a mess and we were scammed by a friend of a friend’s friend who was an attorney, 3K US out the window on the first trip around the merry go round.

Then we went through it again with the best attorney I had heard of and I saw the process and the statements required, wow.

We made it though and he never showed up because he was in the other country. Now once the annulment was over and word reached him he wanted to be a parent again, mmmm to late. His son is my son now. He calls only in November before Christmas to see if his son want to meet him in Manila course he does not but man is that day painful when the phone call comes. I told Rina that he will not call Dallas so just bare it out till we are in the states and all will be better then.

The last call in Nov 2010 my son told the father when he called that my dad is coming over from Dallas again to see me and therefore he could not go to manila to see anyone.

No tears this time which I think is a good sign he is letting go of the dead beat.

If the love is strong, the feelings true, If like me you can not imagine life without her.

Stand beside her and walk with her through the journey to Annulment and cherish the life for the two of you once you past this small hurdle.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

If she entered the US as a K-1 and got married, wouldn't she get in trouble when she went back to the Philippines before getting divorced again?

[sunandmoon 450]

Once she has a US Immigrant Visa in her Passport she will need the CFO Sticker to leave the Philippines. If she is living/working abroad and has met the residency requirements for the foreign country then she can get a K-1 through the US Embassy in that country. Note that she must not return to the Philippines until she is a US Citizen though or she will get stuck in the Philippines unable to leave without the CFO Clearance.

The best route is to be patient and file for the recognition of foreign divorce.