How difficult for Widowed MIL get Tourist Visa

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You do realise that English is not an official language in Russia, don't you?

And when people are taught that "the Ukraine" is an exception along with "the Netherlands", that's the way they are most likely be saying it. So, when you see a mistake you don't have to make fun of it, writing some stupid stuff like "the Russia" (I know that you didn't, just saying), you can just give an explanation. At least a person, who took an effort to learn your language and is still making an effort trying to improve it, deserves a little respect.

Actually, I DID give an explanation. And I DIDN'T say "the Russia" though I understand the point of it. Nor was anything I said in any way disrespectful. So get over it.

In Nederlands, they do not say "the Nederlands" though in this case, in English it is a corruption since "Nederlands" means "low lands". So it would not be grammatically incorrect, in English, to say "the low lands" as it is more a description than a name. People in Nederlands speak English amazingly well, by the way, and it is the official language in the EU.

(^^^^^^ is an "explanation")

[ONA 133]

So it's stupid.... Sorry, but I do understand Russians don't understand American humor.

A joke should be funny. Some Russian people can make fun of you for messing up cases of nouns, but it doesn't mean that it is funny.

Actually, I DID give an explanation. And I DIDN'T say "the Russia" though I understand the point of it. Nor was anything I said in any way disrespectful. So get over it.

In Nederlands, they do not say "the Nederlands" though in this case, in English it is a corruption since "Nederlands" means "low lands". So it would not be grammatically incorrect, in English, to say "the low lands" as it is more a description than a name. People in Nederlands speak English amazingly well, by the way, and it is the official language in the EU.

(^^^^^^ is an "explanation")

I know that you didn't say it.

The point was that for me it's a grammatical issue, so stop trying to make it a political one, OK? I consider Ukraine to be my second home-country, so I would never say anything like that on purpose. And I make some other grammar mistakes sometimes. I know I do, but I have no idea, why you have to have your attention fixed on that one.

[Neonred 3,562]

You do realise that English is not an official language in Russia, don't you?

And when people are taught that "the Ukraine" is an exception along with "the Netherlands", that's the way they are most likely be saying it. So, when you see a mistake you don't have to make fun of it, writing some stupid stuff like "the Russia" (I know that you didn't, just saying), you can just give an explanation. At least a person, who took an effort to learn your language and is still making an effort trying to improve it, deserves a little respect.

Sorry you did not get the joke. Someone else did, but I am not calling YOU stupid.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Sorry you did not get the joke. Someone else did, but I am not calling YOU stupid.

It IS the RUB forum.

[Dave-n-Oksana 49]

Wow!! Didn't mean to start a war, but then again this is the RUB forum . I want to thank every for their responses, and since we do have a while before this is going to happen, we will start building the evidence of her ties.

Ona, Oksana's sister and niece are also planning on coming with their mother, but her sister has stronger proof of ties to Ukraine. I was just worried about the difficulties a pensioner would face.

Now back to "Ukraine, not The Ukraine" channel.

Dave

p.s. Oksana and my stepdaughter both say The Ukraine.

[SMR 368]

I think it's a little silly to get worked up about whether it should be "The Ukraine" or "Ukraine" in English since neither Ukraine, Russia, or the Soviet Union use or used English as an official language. In the Russian language (and Ukrainian, I believe) there are no articles, so "The Ukraine" does not translate to Russian any differently than "Ukraine."

I suppose, as Eekee pointed out, a parallel could be drawn between calling it "The Ukraine" and saying "на украине" instead of "в украине" but it isn't really the same thing. The consensus among Russians I have asked is that "в" is correct both grammatically and politically although most of them figured it didn't matter. I've only known a couple Ukrainians but they thought the same thing. I know one Ukrainian who is adamant about using "в" and claims that using "на" is offensive. I also knew one Russian who was convinced that "на" was correct. For both of these guys, the issue was much more political than grammatic. The Russian even used the justification that "на" was correct because Ukraine is part of Russia.

[eekee 182]

It carries the same connotation, with both "на" and "the" indicating something other than a single sovereign state and instead a region, a federation of states, etc.

While perhaps in everyday speech "в" is ok, if you, for example, were to take the Russian equivalent of TOEFL and put в Украине in the section on в/на, it'd be marked incorrect. Most Russians/Ukrainians aren't linguists and aren't really on top of current grammatical controversies any more than the average native English speaker.

[dogspot 90]

p.s. Oksana and my stepdaughter both say The Ukraine.

You better tell them to stop, otherwise they'll piss off some arrogant American.

[ONA 133]

Sorry you did not get the joke. Someone else did, but I am not calling YOU stupid.

I didn't call anybody stupid either. I just didn't like "the joke" and I don't think it was a smart thing to say. That doesn't mean that I think you're stupid. Sorry.

I think it's a little silly to get worked up about whether it should be "The Ukraine" or "Ukraine" in English since neither Ukraine, Russia, or the Soviet Union use or used English as an official language. In the Russian language (and Ukrainian, I believe) there are no articles, so "The Ukraine" does not translate to Russian any differently than "Ukraine."

Thank you so much! At least somebody has an idea of what I'm talking about.

It carries the same connotation, with both "на" and "the" indicating something other than a single sovereign state and instead a region, a federation of states, etc.

While perhaps in everyday speech "в" is ok, if you, for example, were to take the Russian equivalent of TOEFL and put в Украине in the section on в/на, it'd be marked incorrect. Most Russians/Ukrainians aren't linguists and aren't really on top of current grammatical controversies any more than the average native English speaker.

As far as I remember, in 1993 в Украине was accepted as a norm along with на Украине under the pressure of Ukrainian government - so basically it's all about politics. It would be considered a mistake in a test though, because Russian linguists are quite conservative and they say that since historically it was на Украине, you can't change it just in one day and that politics shouldn't mix up with the language. It is a very controversial issue. Though, at the moment it's becoming more and more common to say в Украине, both in everyday speech and in the media.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

You better tell them to stop, otherwise they'll piss off some arrogant American.

LOL...say "The Ukraine" in Western Ukraine and see how far you get.

[ONA 133]

LOL...say "The Ukraine" in Western Ukraine and see how far you get.

Never had trouble with any of my friends

Edited February 22, 2011 by ONA

[eekee 182]

I dunno, every teacher I've ever had made us say "на."

[ONA 133]

I dunno, every teacher I've ever had made us say "на."

That's because they are pretty conservative usually

I personally say both. I don't even pay attention which variant I use more often, it's not that important and my Ukrainian friends and relatives never really care either.

[slim 1,525]

I've always referred to that country in English so when I talk about it, it's both Ukraine and "the" Ukraine. The only difference is whom I'm talking to. If it's an educated person I can say Ukraine and they understand which country I'm talking about and what part of the world we're generally speaking of. If it's an uneducated, we take family vacations to Gatlinburg type, I have to say "the" Ukraine because they have no idea I'm talking about another country unless I use "the" in there somewhere.

Typically I'll have to say "over in" Russia when I'm referring to that country. If I just say Russia, they miss the whole point. "Where?"

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Wow!! Didn't mean to start a war, but then again this is the RUB forum . I want to thank every for their responses, and since we do have a while before this is going to happen, we will start building the evidence of her ties.

Ona, Oksana's sister and niece are also planning on coming with their mother, but her sister has stronger proof of ties to Ukraine. I was just worried about the difficulties a pensioner would face.

Now back to "Ukraine, not The Ukraine" channel.

Dave

p.s. Oksana and my stepdaughter both say The Ukraine.

I think you did mean to start a war!