I'm an alien I'm a legal alien... :whistle:

[mckay76 11]

I agree with you. I do the same, stay far from them.

I wantched on eurinews, like in the USA they caught a big narc-gang in the boundary with mexico that was delivering drugs to USA. And when they found out it was a lot of american policemen covering that gang. I can find the link if you want. I didn't watch what it was at the end. I think they jailed policemen, one even was crying.

I also like Mario Puzo books about mafia and so on. Well I know it's a fiction. Love books about mafia. But I really think not all policemen are pure angels in the USA.

Really tough to compare corruption with american police to russian police. It's not widespread here in America and those that do get caught go to jail. Those mafia movies are exactly that movies. The mafia is almost a non-factor within the US now..were more focused on inner-city gangs. Speaking from personal experience.

[slim 1,525]

Really tough to compare corruption with american police to russian police.

The entire system in America is corrupt. In Russia, you pay the cops when you mess up. Here, you have to pay an entire industry. Meanwhile the taxpayers are also paying for it.

Over there, your DUI costs $50. Here, it costs several hundred bucks each to: get out of jail, pay an attorney, go to court, pay fees, take remedial classes, pay your DL reinstatement fees, increased insurance premiums and whatever else you have to pay to get from point A to B in the meantime.

And that's a simple case.

Don't even get started on something like domestic violence.

It's not widespread here in America and those that do get caught go to jail. Those mafia movies are exactly that movies. The mafia is almost a non-factor within the US now..

Because here, the taxpayers (and criminals) pay police salaries. Over there, the police make sh!t and have to make up for it with bribes.

The mafia is non-existent here because it's been replaced by the govt. and social service organizations subsidized by tax dollars. You can't out-muscle Uncle Sugar.

The two systems achieve the same goal (maintaining social order) but they operate entirely different.

were more focused on inner-city gangs. Speaking from personal experience.

You have personal experience with inner-city gangs?

[eekee 182]

The entire system in America is corrupt. In Russia, you pay the cops when you mess up. Here, you have to pay an entire industry. Meanwhile the taxpayers are also paying for it.

Over there, your DUI costs $50. Here, it costs several hundred bucks each to: get out of jail, pay an attorney, go to court, pay fees, take remedial classes, pay your DL reinstatement fees, increased insurance premiums and whatever else you have to pay to get from point A to B in the meantime.

And that's a simple case.

Don't even get started on something like domestic violence.

Because here, the taxpayers (and criminals) pay police salaries. Over there, the police make sh!t and have to make up for it with bribes.

That's because there IS a system. In Russia, it's whatever the particular policeman feels like doing that day. The DUI may cost 60$ or whatever in Russia, but there are also no real consequences. DUIs are a pain in the #### in America because they're designed to be one--if the only hassle of getting a DUI was breaking out three 20$ bills, no one would care. If it's a complete nightmare, people are like "Eh, screw it, not worth it."

And domestic violence... a woman in Russia dies every hour from domestic violence. (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92621334) In the US the number is 4. A day. (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1695157/every_day_4_women_in_the_us_die_from.html) Compare the relative populations of the US and Russia. Are you seriously insinuating that the Russian system of dealing with that particular crime is better than the American one when five times more women a day die at the hands of a domestic partner in Russia when the population of Russia is half that of the United States?

The reason why friend/family connections are so important in Russia is because that is all you have. When formal institutions, such as law, are basically completely broken, corrupt, and ineffective, that's what you have. Police can tell a woman to "go somewhere else," but the only thing she has are friends/family, and chances are that the husband/boyfriend knows who these people are and where they live. There are very, very few, if any, shelters for women where they can go and not be found, that have special protections in place. The town I grew up in in the States? The one with 20,000 people? It has one. The entire city of Moscow, the largest city in all of Europe, also has one. Yeah. One. For 10.5 million people. (http://www.sptimes.ru/index.php?action_id=2&story_id=30402)

In these two arenas ESPECIALLY Russia totally fails. It makes it easier for the people who commit these crimes, certainly. But I cannot accept an argument which upholds the current Russian methods of handling these problems as superior when they are absolutely ineffective in both prevention and punishment.

Edited February 19, 2011 by eekee

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Talking about russian police don't forget american police. We all watch TV and see that some american policemen also bribed. Especially on the mexican boundary. Yes, in russia it is worse. Have you traveled anywhere else? Everywhere police are the same, sometimes they cover bandits and sometimes they are bandits. And what?

I suggest you to change the restaurant. We had dinner with my foreign students in russian restaurant. And when they understood one of them is not russian, they gave us better table. All was reserved before, even for locals. Again we speak about different people. But you call all waitress b*tches. I never saw even one like that.

Better than russians... "Scio me nihil scire" Its Socrates said "I only know that I know nothing". Modesty is the best policy

Were comparing Russia to the US...not Mexico. If I had never spent time in Russia, or if I had a recent lobotomy I would agree that they treat foreigners the same in Russia as they do here in the US. But that's not the case. It's not even comparable between the two. Not even close.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

The entire system in America is corrupt. In Russia, you pay the cops when you mess up. Here, you have to pay an entire industry. Meanwhile the taxpayers are also paying for it.

Over there, your DUI costs $50. Here, it costs several hundred bucks each to: get out of jail, pay an attorney, go to court, pay fees, take remedial classes, pay your DL reinstatement fees, increased insurance premiums and whatever else you have to pay to get from point A to B in the meantime.

And that's a simple case.

Don't even get started on something like domestic violence.

Because here, the taxpayers (and criminals) pay police salaries. Over there, the police make sh!t and have to make up for it with bribes.

The mafia is non-existent here because it's been replaced by the govt. and social service organizations subsidized by tax dollars. You can't out-muscle Uncle Sugar.

The two systems achieve the same goal (maintaining social order) but they operate entirely different.

You have personal experience with inner-city gangs?

LOL.. in Russia the government is the mafia. They did an experiment not so long ago in St. Petersburg to prove a point. A guy dressed up as a cop and went into a store and filled up five bags of grocery's and walked out the door. Not one word was said to him, nor did anyone try to stop him.

As for the DV laws here...they are off the hook. I got a DV for telling my ex to take a flying f**k. DV 4, classes, the whole 9 yards. But if it's went to one extreme here, it's never even taken effect over there.

Again I'm not so cool with the DWI laws here...got one while I was sleeping in my truck in the parking lot of the bar, and no the key's weren't in the ignition. They were under the seat, but seeing how they were in reach, the busted me and made it stick. Extreme here, and over in Russia a few dollars will buy off the cops in regards to a DV. Where's the middle ground ?

[eekee 182]

I don't really care specifically about Russian treatment of foreigners. Trust me, that is the LEAST of the problems with Russian police. Whatever, you had to pay a ridiculous fine because they knew you had bank. Ask the dude I know who had to get a plastic cheek replacement thanks to the cops when he didn't even commit a crime. Ask my friend who had his ribs broken. Then complain about treatment of foreigners. They may take your money, but they're sure as hell not going to beat the ###### out of you.

Edited February 20, 2011 by eekee

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

My fiance says that he was surprised how Russian people are willing to help and they don't expect anything back. He says that in the States when people help you, they expect that you at least pay them some money for it, which was a big surprise for me. Russian people get offended a lot of times when you offer them money for help.

I have to agree with that. Russian people don't like policemen. And because of Russian police I'm just afraid of the police everywhere. When I'm driving in the US and there's a police car behind me I get nervous for no reason, my fiance can never understand me, he is like "Calm down, you didn't do anything wrong", but I guess this fear is just so deep in my head that it's hard to do anything with it.

It's also surprising to me that Americans expect money for offering help. That's news to me. In fact I don't believe I charged once over there for opening a door for someone that had their hands full of bags and the Russians and/or Belarusians didn't even think of helping. Of course I'm sure they were much too busy working on their smiles and saying "thank you" to help. You know those smiles...like all the ones you get in the stores over there by the store workers that say "thank you and have a nice day"...[input sarcasm here].

[eekee 182]

Different customs. The cashier doesn't care if you have a nice day or not, either in the US or in Russia. But the guy in America obligated to say it.

Edited February 20, 2011 by eekee

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Right. The same thing happens when Russians go to Egypt or Turkey and everybody hates them , cause they have too much fun. And then they start to hate all Russian people, because hey think we're all the same.

My guess and this is speaking from experience, is that the Russians that are vacationing over there and aren't drunk and rude don't make up for the ones loaded with money, drunk,rude, are totally loud and over bearing, and think every women over there is a hooker for the taking. Of course the Russian hookers in the middle east...and lord only knows there are literally thousands of them over there...try everything in the book to get you to buy them. You would think the first time you said; "thank you, but no thanks" that they would get the hint. Apparently not though.

Edited February 20, 2011 by Why_Me

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Different customs. The cashier doesn't care if you have a nice day or not, either in the US or in Russia. But the guy in America obligated to say it.

Is this a custom ? Here when you give the store checker too much money, chances are they will let you know and give you your change back. What are the odds of it happening there ?

Here's a good story. My wife who speaks decent German, and has her gf send her clothes from Germany said to me; "Hey let me show you something". This was in Minsk. She said for me not to talk to her unless it was in German...my German sucks, but I can get by on it. So we go the the store and she says something to me in German, I nod, and she hands the women behind the bars a couple of hundred in Euro's to exchange for Belarusian rubles. The fat chick takes her money and says to her co worker sitting next to her; "Watch what I do to these stupid Germans". Then she proceeds to short my wife close to $80. My wife counts out the money, and says to the gal in perfect Russian; "give me the rest of my money you fat thieving pig before I call the manager on you".

When we left the store, my wife says to me; "I have shown you something about our people, so next time you get drunk and hand them a wad of rubles...think twice about it".

Edited February 20, 2011 by Why_Me

[eekee 182]

Is this a custom ? Here when you give the store checker too much money, chances are they will let you know and give you your change back. What are the odds of it happening there ?

Here's a good story. My wife who speaks decent German, and has her gf send her clothes from Germany said to me; "Hey let me show you something". This was in Minsk. She said for me not to talk to her unless it was in German...my German sucks, but I can get by on it. So we go the the store and she says something to me in German, I nod, and she hands the women behinde g the bards a couple of hundred in Euro's to exchange for Belarusian rubles. The fat chick takes her money and says to her co worker sitting next to her; "Watch what I do to these stupid Germans". Then she proceeds to short my wife close to $80. My wife counts out the money, and says to the gal in perfect Russian; "give me the rest of my money you fat thieving pig before I call the manager on you".

When we left the store, my wife says to me; "I have shown you something about our people, so next time you get drunk and hand them a wad of rubles...think twice about it".

Simply that the idea of customer service is different in Russia. They're not your friend, they don't care about your life, they are there to complete a business transaction. Some do err on the side of rudeness to be sure, but what difference does it make, really? Do you really care that much about whether someone who works in a produkty is super nice to you? It's demoralizing to Americans when they first come here, I think, because it's just one more thing on top of everything else that's different. But once you get used to it, it's fine and then when you go back to America and people you don't know are all HELLO HOW IS YOUR DAY??????? it is extremely disconcerting and comes off as very phony and then you long for the days of silent, simple, Russian transaction with no useless smalltalk.

And no, I have never been cheated in a store. I would never have problems with "overpaying" because I know how to count. Just like anywhere else, get your change back, make sure it's the right amount, and if not, alert the cashier to the problem and have it remedied. Not that hard.

I have certainly never had anyone try to cheat me out of money. But perhaps you just have a different experience all around when you don't speak the language.

[baron555 934]

when you go back to America and people you don't know are all HELLO HOW IS YOUR DAY??????? it is extremely disconcerting and comes off as very phony

You folks obviously don't know about American marketing.....it's all about making the customer feel comfortable and easy....because then they are more likely to part with their money.....and re-visit this store/shop/market/whatever again.

So the Hello when you enter a Walmart is a very calculated ploy....very calculated. Don't think that it is phony at all....they (the business) really wishes you have a nice day.....and spend a lot of money in their store.

Nothing phony about it. American Marketing is something every FSU country could learn about....and thrive from.

If only the government and the local/established mafia allowed it, and the people wanted it.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Simply that the idea of customer service is different in Russia. They're not your friend, they don't care about your life, they are there to complete a business transaction. Some do err on the side of rudeness to be sure, but what difference does it make, really? Do you really care that much about whether someone who works in a produkty is super nice to you? It's demoralizing to Americans when they first come here, I think, because it's just one more thing on top of everything else that's different. But once you get used to it, it's fine and then when you go back to America and people you don't know are all HELLO HOW IS YOUR DAY??????? it is extremely disconcerting and comes off as very phony and then you long for the days of silent, simple, Russian transaction with no useless smalltalk.

And no, I have never been cheated in a store. I would never have problems with "overpaying" because I know how to count. Just like anywhere else, get your change back, make sure it's the right amount, and if not, alert the cashier to the problem and have it remedied. Not that hard.

I have certainly never had anyone try to cheat me out of money. But perhaps you just have a different experience all around when you don't speak the language.

I see what your saying. On the flip side...the Russians and Belarusians I got to know where cool as all get. Nice people, fun to be with, classy and clean. I was just pointing out to a few peeps on here the hypocrisy of their post/statements.

[eekee 182]

when you go back to America and people you don't know are all HELLO HOW IS YOUR DAY??????? it is extremely disconcerting and comes off as very phony

You folks obviously don't know about American marketing.....it's all about making the customer feel comfortable and easy....because then they are more likely to part with their money.....and re-visit this store/shop/market/whatever again.

So the Hello when you enter a Walmart is a very calculated ploy....very calculated. Don't think that it is phony at all....they (the business) really wishes you have a nice day.....and spend a lot of money in their store.

Nothing phony about it. American Marketing is something every FSU country could learn about....and thrive from.

If only the government and the local/established mafia allowed it, and the people wanted it.

It works for AMERICAN culture, because that's how Americans feel comfortable. Saying hello to strangers on the street, smiling at people you don't know, etc. If, for instance, I were in a store in Russia and a male shop assistant started asking me how my day was going or whatever, I would be very freaked out and assume he was hitting on me or something, because that sort of interaction between a shop assistant and a customer just isn't the norm.

And what does the mafia and government have to do with people saying "Have a nice day" in a store?

[Lena and Igor 5]

From my own experience, I know that the majority of people in UA work 2, sometimes (really) 3 jobs and too weary for the most part to express greetings and joy to customers. Salaries, if and when are minimal, especially for teachers and middle tier civil service workers.