The Confederate Flag

[Alex+R 0]

Which still begs the question, why is the swastika always considered to be the height of offensiveness? I understand what you are saying - but would it be true to say that some symbols are synonymous with and completely inseparable from the meaning behind them?

Hence I wonder why it is that the Union flag, synonymous as it is with the support of slavery and racial repression is not considered just as offensive.

No symbol can be synonymous with and completely inseperable from any meaning we associate with them. It's all in the context. As Gupt pointed out, there are contexts in which the swastika is not offensive. But when you see white Americans using them, you know what it means.

In Brazil, there are people who still celebrate their heritage with the Confederate flag. They descended from Confederate soldiers who emigrated from the South to Brazil toward the end of the war to grow cotton (blablabla). For them, the flag represents only their heritage, and they don't understand why Americans are so offended by it.

But for US, the flag represents hate because, let's face it, if it represents heritage only, why don't more black people have them on their cars? Their great great great grandparents were certainly in those states at the time too.

[TracyTN 237]

I live in the South, and I just don't get it. The war is over, they lost - move on.

[Jenn! 918]

I voted "hate" and "yes". IMO, the heritage argument is just an excuse and display of the confederate flag is usually out of spite, even if not openly admitted.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No symbol can be synonymous with and completely inseperable from any meaning we associate with them. It's all in the context. As Gupt pointed out, there are contexts in which the swastika is not offensive. But when you see white Americans using them, you know what it means.

Actually I would say that a person (of any race) could not show the swastika in any country outside of India, Japan and a few other countries without causing the worst offence and having their views tied to those of the nazis.

[Alex+R 0]

No symbol can be synonymous with and completely inseperable from any meaning we associate with them. It's all in the context. As Gupt pointed out, there are contexts in which the swastika is not offensive. But when you see white Americans using them, you know what it means.

Actually I would say that a person (of any race) could not show the swastika in any country outside of India, Japan and a few other countries without causing the worst offence and having their views tied to those of the nazis.

True, but it's still not an absolute. But when you see an American white guy with a swastika, you can assume that he's not displaying an ancient symbol of peace. Especially when it's accompanied by the stars and bars, which I find offensive within the US. Used by anyone.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No symbol can be synonymous with and completely inseperable from any meaning we associate with them. It's all in the context. As Gupt pointed out, there are contexts in which the swastika is not offensive. But when you see white Americans using them, you know what it means.

Actually I would say that a person (of any race) could not show the swastika in any country outside of India, Japan and a few other countries without causing the worst offence and having their views tied to those of the nazis.

True, but it's still not an absolute. But when you see an American white guy with a swastika, you can assume that he's not displaying an ancient symbol of peace. Especially when it's accompanied by the stars and bars, which I find offensive within the US. Used by anyone.

True - it’s all about association. Don't you think its strange that some symbols are considered grossly offensive, while others (that mean much the same thing) are not. Should the Confederate flag even be subject to this kind of debate when the swastika is not, and while the Hammer & Sickle is apparently irrelevant?

[Delete This 0]

I voted "both" and "yes". I have always enjoyed the VJ threads because in my opinion it's about people all over the world coming together to help each other in the spirit of freindship and understanding. I think flags such as the confederate flag and the swastica take away from that spirit.

[Alex+R 0]

No symbol can be synonymous with and completely inseperable from any meaning we associate with them. It's all in the context. As Gupt pointed out, there are contexts in which the swastika is not offensive. But when you see white Americans using them, you know what it means.

Actually I would say that a person (of any race) could not show the swastika in any country outside of India, Japan and a few other countries without causing the worst offence and having their views tied to those of the nazis.

True, but it's still not an absolute. But when you see an American white guy with a swastika, you can assume that he's not displaying an ancient symbol of peace. Especially when it's accompanied by the stars and bars, which I find offensive within the US. Used by anyone.

True - it’s all about association. Don't you think its strange that some symbols are considered grossly offensive, while others (that mean much the same thing) are not. Should the Confederate flag even be subject to this kind of debate when the swastika is not, and while the Hammer & Sickle is apparently irrelevant?

I don't think it's strange at all. The Hammer and Sickle is not appropriated by modern-day hate groups that I am aware of. It remains in its historical context.

[pedroh 21]

people that have that flag in their cars, belts or hats.. usually have a pick pickup, a sticker that says 'America is God, Guts & Guns', didn't finish High School, baptists, and, are kinda dumb... oh yeah, and are Bush Supporters lawl.. at least in this area

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No symbol can be synonymous with and completely inseperable from any meaning we associate with them. It's all in the context. As Gupt pointed out, there are contexts in which the swastika is not offensive. But when you see white Americans using them, you know what it means.

Actually I would say that a person (of any race) could not show the swastika in any country outside of India, Japan and a few other countries without causing the worst offence and having their views tied to those of the nazis.

True, but it's still not an absolute. But when you see an American white guy with a swastika, you can assume that he's not displaying an ancient symbol of peace. Especially when it's accompanied by the stars and bars, which I find offensive within the US. Used by anyone.

True - it’s all about association. Don't you think its strange that some symbols are considered grossly offensive, while others (that mean much the same thing) are not. Should the Confederate flag even be subject to this kind of debate when the swastika is not, and while the Hammer & Sickle is apparently irrelevant?

I don't think it's strange at all. The Hammer and Sickle is not appropriated by modern-day hate groups that I am aware of. It remains in its historical context.

I'd be curious to know whether the soviet flag is considered offensive to people in Russia.

[mybackpages 0]

I had a nice long post here about how the Civil War was NOT fought for or against slavery. It was fought for state rights. The end result of the north winning was the government being able to institute things like income tax, highway money tied to states doing what the gov wants, etc. Hell, Lincoln freed the slaves as an afterthought.

And no....I'm not southern. Just a history major who is tired of all of the uneducated ####### being spewed about the civil war and the confederacy.

Actually if we read the declaration of sucession from south carolina, it states very clearly that slavery is the issue for leaving the US or more specifically the fact that there were too many pushing for an end to slavery. South Carolina wanted to keep slavery and left the union because of it. How is that not about slavery?

http://facweb.furman.edu/~benson/docs/decl-sc.htm

[Mrs. Forgetful 2]

both no

[mawilson 2,133]

Just seems strange that one flag which represents a government that killed millions of people is considered horrifically offensive (to the point where it can't even be used in jest), but noone would blink twice at a guy wearing a Hammer and Sickle T-Shirt. Try wearing a Swastika shirt down the pub. It won't end well ;-)

Probably because the Hammer and Sickle is a symbol of the working class (two different

professions united in their struggle for a worker's utopia) and is not in any way associated

with Stalin. The symbol was used before Stalin and after Stalin, and continues to be used

in surviving Communist countries.

[type2negative 0]

I'd be curious to know whether the soviet flag is considered offensive to people in Russia.

Why being curious. Start compain against it. Someone got to be offended.

[Ban Hammer 13,333]

I'd be curious to know whether the soviet flag is considered offensive to people in Russia.

Why being curious. Start compain against it. Someone got to be offended.

ain't that the truth.