sending $

[4izenough 3]

I'm not sure how to pose this question, so i hope VJ users understand what i'm trying to ask.

Has anybody heard about that if the petitioner sending money via western union or something like that to your fiance in the foreign country, for the purpose of the consulate can see that petitioner and fiance has an ongoing relationship would help somewhat and validate the relationship.

Now before everybody jump the gun, its fiance money to begin with. I'm just sending it back for that purpose only.

[Afrikan Queen 11]

Do you mean if you are sending money ithis will prove your relationship?

My fiance is from Nigeria. providing proof of sending money may not look good for us because Nigeria is known for its fraud. So perhaps it depends on which country your sending it to.

[Tero 105]

I'm not sure how to pose this question, so i hope VJ users understand what i'm trying to ask.

Has anybody heard about that if the petitioner sending money via western union or something like that to your fiance in the foreign country, for the purpose of the consulate can see that petitioner and fiance has an ongoing relationship would help somewhat and validate the relationship.

Now before everybody jump the gun, its fiance money to begin with. I'm just sending it back for that purpose only.

Whatever proof of dealings you have with your fiance will come in handy. My then fiancee took all the receipts of MoneyGram with other proofs and the CO was convinced we have a relationship. If you are advised to present receipts of rings, hotels, and other expenses you incurred together for proof of an ongoing relationship, your Westen Union/MoneyGam reciepts would be part of the package. It will definitely help and cannot hurt you.

[Tero 105]

Do you mean if you are sending money ithis will prove your relationship?

My fiance is from Nigeria. providing proof of sending money may not look good for us because Nigeria is known for its fraud. So perhaps it depends on which country your sending it to.

Sorry that is not true. The receipt would show the petitioner sent the money and not some anonymous donor, which would further show a relationship between the two.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Sorry that is not true. The receipt would show the petitioner sent the money and not some anonymous donor, which would further show a relationship between the two.

Not in this case. The petitioner is sending the foreign beneficiary's own money back to them, and saving the receipts to make it look like a gift or remittance from the petitioner to the beneficiary.

Anyone who knows they're going to be sending a petition is going to do some things they wouldn't normally do, cognizant of the fact that they're going to need evidence, such as posing for a picture they wouldn't otherwise pose for, etc. Although the event you're photographing would have occurred anyway, documenting it with photographs is something you might not have done if you didn't need the evidence. However, what the OP is suggesting sounds too much like an overt attempt to manufacture evidence by creating both the event and the evidence of it. This sounds like fraud to me.

4izenough, sending money to your foreign fiancee is common. At some consulates it's best not to bring this up because it makes it appear that the petitioner is buying a spouse. At other consulates it can be very good evidence. However, sending the beneficiary's money back to them just to collect the Western Union receipts is fraud. If your relationship is real then you should be able to collect real evidence of it.

[Tero 105]

Not in this case. The petitioner is sending the foreign beneficiary's own money back to them, and saving the receipts to make it look like a gift or remittance from the petitioner to the beneficiary.

Anyone who knows they're going to be sending a petition is going to do some things they wouldn't normally do, cognizant of the fact that they're going to need evidence, such as posing for a picture they wouldn't otherwise pose for, etc. Although the event you're photographing would have occurred anyway, documenting it with photographs is something you might not have done if you didn't need the evidence. However, what the OP is suggesting sounds too much like an overt attempt to manufacture evidence by creating both the event and the evidence of it. This sounds like fraud to me.

4izenough, sending money to your foreign fiancee is common. At some consulates it's best not to bring this up because it makes it appear that the petitioner is buying a spouse. At other consulates it can be very good evidence. However, sending the beneficiary's money back to them just to collect the Western Union receipts is fraud. If your relationship is real then you should be able to collect real evidence of it.

How can they tell whose money it is by looking at the receipt? All they see is sender (petitioner) and receiver (beneficiary) to establish an activity between them. It is hard to predict what would satisfy a CO as even a legitimate photo and other legitimate documents still does not convince many. Unless the beneficiary hinted "the plot" to the CO, I do not think a CO would refuse one a visa just because he/she saw a money-transfer receipt.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

How can they tell whose money it is by looking at the receipt? All they see is sender (petitioner) and receiver (beneficiary) to establish an activity between them. It is hard to predict what would satisfy a CO as even a legitimate photo and other legitimate documents still does not convince many. Unless the beneficiary hinted "the plot" to the CO, I do not think a CO would refuse one a visa just because he/she saw a money-transfer receipt.

Whether money transfer receipts will hurt or help depends on the consulate, and maybe even on the particular case. That's not the point. What the OP is suggesting is an attempt to intentionally mislead the consular officer into thinking that the petitioner is supporting the beneficiary financially when, in fact, the petitioner is sending the beneficiary's own money back to them. This is fraud. Even if it were guaranteed to be good evidence, nobody should be suggesting that it's ok for someone to commit fraud just because it's relatively easy to get away with.

[4izenough 3]

Thank you all for great advice...first the relationship is real, we really love each other a lot.

second, its her money because she does not want me to send or spend own my money her, that's why she gave me her own money to send.

And yes i understand, that some CO may look like i'm buying her. So i'm reading that its best to not send money? I better not chance it.

Again, thank your for the advice.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Thank you all for great advice...first the relationship is real, we really love each other a lot.

second, its her money because she does not want me to send or spend own my money her, that's why she gave me her own money to send.

And yes i understand, that some CO may look like i'm buying her. So i'm reading that its best to not send money? I better not chance it.

Again, thank your for the advice.

Do everything you would normally do in a relationship. Do the things that would be expected according to the customs and traditions of your fiancee's country. The only thing you need to do that a typical couple in her country might not do is to go out of your way to collect evidence. Just don't go to the length of manufacturing evidence.

I sent my fiancee money regularly. Except for money she needed to prepare for our formal engagement ceremony and party, she never asked for the money. It was always a gift from me to her. To a certain degree, it was expected. When a girl in her country hooks up with a person from a first world country then everyone just expects that her standard of living is going to go up a notch or two. The CO's at the consulate there don't generally ask about these gifts unless the petitioner's income is borderline. In that case, it would look suspicious if the petitioner were sending regular remittances to his fiancee. How could he afford it? Was someone else giving him the money just so she'd have receipts for the interview? Does she have family in the US who might be bankrolling the petitioner? In my wife's country they would rarely suspect an American was buying a bride because there are far too many girls who will hook up with an American at the drop of a hat. Most of those girls are frauds, and they are the ones the consulate is looking out for.

Like I said, it depends very much on the consulate. In some countries it would look like the couple were working on building a common life together, and it would be very good evidence. In other countries it raises red flags.

[Tero 105]

Whether money transfer receipts will hurt or help depends on the consulate, and maybe even on the particular case. That's not the point. What the OP is suggesting is an attempt to intentionally mislead the consular officer into thinking that the petitioner is supporting the beneficiary financially when, in fact, the petitioner is sending the beneficiary's own money back to them. This is fraud. Even if it were guaranteed to be good evidence, nobody should be suggesting that it's ok for someone to commit fraud just because it's relatively easy to get away with.

If the relationship is legit, how is it fraud? Genuine relationships and genuine evidences have been deemed to not be convincing by many COs. Couples present tonnes of legit photos and other documents and still get denied because a CO is not convinced. OP knows he has a legit relationship but it does not end there, he has to convince the CO. A fraud would be trying to show a relationship when there is none. Whether the money is the beneficiary's to begin with or not, they are simply trying to show some interraction between themselves. Unless he is sending thousands, I do not see how it shows one buying the other. This is not much different from saving your chats for the purpose as it is ok to chat with your spouse but why do you need to save them? And everytime you send that 3 letter email saying "I love you" which you did in order to print out as part of the proof of your relationship, it's all fraud. The money transfer purpose is to show some interraction between the two and not to stage a business transaction. After all said and done, I dont see any fraud in gathering evidence to show interractions between couples in order to convince a CO. A fraud would be trying to show a relationship when there is none or falsifying documents, which neither applies in this case.

[V & J 7]

If the relationship is legit, how is it fraud? Genuine relationships and genuine evidences have been deemed to not be convincing by many COs. Couples present tonnes of legit photos and other documents and still get denied because a CO is not convinced. OP knows he has a legit relationship but it does not end there, he has to convince the CO. A fraud would be trying to show a relationship when there is none. Whether the money is the beneficiary's to begin with or not, they are simply trying to show some interraction between themselves. Unless he is sending thousands, I do not see how it shows one buying the other. This is not much different from saving your chats for the purpose as it is ok to chat with your spouse but why do you need to save them? And everytime you send that 3 letter email saying "I love you" which you did in order to print out as part of the proof of your relationship, it's all fraud. The money transfer purpose is to show some interraction between the two and not to stage a business transaction. After all said and done, I dont see any fraud in gathering evidence to show interractions between couples in order to convince a CO. A fraud would be trying to show a relationship when there is none or falsifying documents, which neither applies in this case.

[kutakendra 3]

I've sent my SO money when he between jobs, and the Western Union form is very complete-- has both our names, etc. In fact, once I didn't put his middle name, which is on his ID. I had to redo the whole form. I could see how it could look like you were "buying a bride," but if you have a reason to be sending money, I see no reason why it isn't a good idea.

[joyjohn 18]

May i add this, i understand what the OP is say and why they feel they have to do this. I send my own money to my wife also but here the receipt are different from what she gets in the PI, my western union receipt is total different then what she gets there.so you better be real careful trying that...my western union change theres about 6 month ago..

[coraliesolms 47]

There was a case here on VJ a few months back, where the visa was denied after they showed money transfer receipts, as it looked as though the USC was "buying" the immigrant. Now, after saying that, I will say it is VERY rare. I took western union receipts to my interview, and they werent even looked at. I asked the IO if he wanted to see them, he looked at the pile and said "I dont have time to look through those".

It varies from consulate to consulate. She can take the receipts, but in her consulate, I wouldnt offer them if they arent asked for.

[cedwards001 18]

I'm not sure how to pose this question, so i hope VJ users understand what i'm trying to ask.

Has anybody heard about that if the petitioner sending money via western union or something like that to your fiance in the foreign country, for the purpose of the consulate can see that petitioner and fiance has an ongoing relationship would help somewhat and validate the relationship.

Now before everybody jump the gun, its fiance money to begin with. I'm just sending it back for that purpose only.

I think it would be wise to pay close attention to Jim's comments. Using money transfers for the purpose of fabricating evidence is considered fraud and consequently grounds for denial. Just because you love somebody and you know that your relationship is "real" does not give a person the right to falsify proof. It's not always so black and white though.

To be fair to Tero, I think most people that deal with high visa fraud countries do these types of things. Let me explain further: I had to deal with the US Consulate in Vietnam which is one of the toughest to get a visa from. Prior to filing my petition, I was worried my fiance would get denied at the interview for not having a strong enough case to prove the bonafides of our relationship. My fiance and I decided to submit extra pictures, receipts, etc with our petition so as to not just satisfy the bare minimums for the I-129F. We did the typical picture posing with family and friends and by tourist attractions not because we wanted to fake any evidence, but it was because we were so worried of being denied that we went the extra step and submitted more proof to help convince the CO that we are legit. The same applied to receipts since we did so many theme park visits and more.

I think the fine line between fraud and proving a relationship is one that many chose to walk on because they fear denial at the Consulate/Embassy stage. Having said that, I personally would NOT do this to prove your relationship. It's a lot easier for the CO to misunderstand the purpose of your money transfers then it is to misunderstand the purpose of your emails, chats, pictures as proof of a relationship. In my opinion, you should prove your relationship the old school way with emails/chats/phone bills/pictures, etc. It's your choice. Good luck!

Edited February 13, 2011 by cedwards001