CBO Director Says Obamacare Would Reduce Employment by 800,000 Workers

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

How so? China has poor employment laws and we buy the goods. How is the market protecting them?

It isn't.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

It isn't.

When someone tells me about the market looking out for people I always think of a car, the Ford Pinto.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

When someone tells me about the market looking out for people I always think of a car, the Ford Pinto.

Very good example. The Pinto did not last very long in the free market. The market does not "look out for people" the people look out for the market, or at least they do if the government does not require us to drive Pintos.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

How so? China has poor employment laws and we buy the goods. How is the market protecting them?

Imported goods ARE the subject of government regulation, constitutionally. Doestic medical care is NOT the responsibility of the frederal government. I have no problem with the federal goverment regulating the importing of goods from other countries. We will not protect Chinese workers from exploitation because our government borrowed a lot of money from the Chinese, then disributed it to people to "end the recession" who then sent the money back to China by buying their goods at Walmart. We can't do anything about China because they might call in their notes and then what would we do?

I would be perfectly content if the government imposed a 400% tariff on all Chinese goods due to the poor record of human rights in China. Maybe Obama will do that next week. What do you think?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Imported goods ARE the subject of government regulation, constitutionally. Doestic medical care is NOT the responsibility of the frederal government. I have no problem with the federal goverment regulating the importing of goods from other countries. We will not protect Chinese workers from exploitation because our government borrowed a lot of money from the Chinese, then disributed it to people to "end the recession" who then sent the money back to China by buying their goods at Walmart. We can't do anything about China because they might call in their notes and then what would we do?

I would be perfectly content if the government imposed a 400% tariff on all Chinese goods due to the poor record of human rights in China. Maybe Obama will do that next week. What do you think?

Sure we have a right to tariff goods. But shouldn't the free market be able to protect the workers? Why aren't Americans boycotting goods until safety can come into check?

By the way, the Pinto was in showrooms for a decade.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Sure we have a right to tariff goods. But shouldn't the free market be able to protect the workers? Why aren't Americans boycotting goods until safety can come into check?

By the way, the Pinto was in showrooms for a decade.

A decade is not a long time for a manufactured good. The Mustang has been around since 1964, the Corvette since 1953. The Impala since, I am not sure, 1953/54? They Chevy suburban since 1935. A decade is a quick death for a car series. A decade may seem long to someone for whom it represents a signifigant portion of their life, but it is not. Heck it takes 3-5 years just for the word to get around that it is a piece of junk and another 2-3 years for the company to finally give up the ghost on the thing. 10 years is a very brief run for not only a car product but a "brand". They didn't remake the Pinto, they killed it and buried it (and you aren't supposed to mention it) The Vega, by Chevy was basically the same piece of junk made in the same time period. They were both introduced as cars with a new price tag under $2000.

You are free to boycott Chinese products.

But you advocate the goverment getting involved where they do not belong but not where they do belong. Strange.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

A decade is not a long time for a manufactured good. The Mustang has been around since 1964, the Corvette since 1953. The Impala since, I am not sure, 1953/54? They Chevy suburban since 1935. A decade is a quick death for a car series. A decade may seem long to someone for whom it represents a signifigant portion of their life, but it is not. Heck it takes 3-5 years just for the word to get around that it is a piece of junk and another 2-3 years for the company to finally give up the ghost on the thing. 10 years is a very brief run for not only a car product but a "brand". They didn't remake the Pinto, they killed it and buried it (and you aren't supposed to mention it) The Vega, by Chevy was basically the same piece of junk made in the same time period. They were both introduced as cars with a new price tag under $2000.

You are free to boycott Chinese products.

But you advocate the goverment getting involved where they do not belong but not where they do belong. Strange.

I'm not advocating anything with regards to Tariffs (just playing Devil's Advocate). Why isn't the Free Market protecting chinese workers?

Edited February 11, 2011 by Sousuke

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I'm not advocating anything with regards to Tariffs (just playing Devil's Advocate). Why isn't the Free Market protecting chinese workers?

It is!

[JohnSmith2007 353]

I'm not advocating anything with regards to Tariffs (just playing Devil's Advocate). Why isn't the Free Market protecting chinese workers?

Maybe because China does not have a free market? The only people that can protect the Chinese workers is the Chinese government since every business there is a joint venture with the government. Now if you want to talk about American workers then absolutly yes the free market does protect them.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Maybe because China does not have a free market? The only people that can protect the Chinese workers is the Chinese government since every business there is a joint venture with the government. Now if you want to talk about American workers then absolutly yes the free market does protect them.

Well we buy both Chinese and American goods. According to Gary's principles, our consumerism itself protects people. Therefore our free market principles should have an effect on the safety of chinese workers. This wouldn't be the case if say we had a very small market share and some other communistic society was purchasing the majority of goods...but as it stands we are one of the main sources of demand in the chain.

Now what you mention probably will be true when more of the demand comes internally from within the Chinese system.

I did a bit of research about conditions in China, and low and behold Unions are forming in China and they are the largest advocate of safety conditions. So are unions a part of a truly free market? If they are, perhaps Gary is right.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Well we buy both Chinese and American goods. According to Gary's principles, our consumerism itself protects people. Therefore our free market principles should have an effect on the safety of chinese workers. This wouldn't be the case if say we had a very small market share and some other communistic society was purchasing the majority of goods...but as it stands we are one of the main sources of demand in the chain.

Now what you mention probably will be true when more of the demand comes internally from within the Chinese system.

I did a bit of research about conditions in China, and low and behold Unions are forming in China and they are the largest advocate of safety conditions. So are unions a part of a truly free market? If they are, perhaps Gary is right.

Of course I am right.

A free market chooses what is a part of it. Unions CAN be a part of a free market. Trade Unions, for example, compete directly in many cases with non-union trades. If the union labor can offer the consumer something that the non-union labor does not, they will survive. Where they cannot offer anything of value, they have to be mandated in order to survive.

China's workers have seen substantial improvements in working conditions due to the demand from the USA. They are still not the best, of course. But to say our market does not protect them in any way is wrong. Our market evolves just as anything. In 1905 it may have been acceptable for 9 year olds to work in coal mines. It is not acceptable now and the law against it is facetious. In 1960 Japanese products were considered mostly junk, a few clicks below what we consider Chinese products now.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Of course I am right.

A free market chooses what is a part of it. Unions CAN be a part of a free market. Trade Unions, for example, compete directly in many cases with non-union trades. If the union labor can offer the consumer something that the non-union labor does not, they will survive. Where they cannot offer anything of value, they have to be mandated in order to survive.

China's workers have seen substantial improvements in working conditions due to the demand from the USA. They are still not the best, of course. But to say our market does not protect them in any way is wrong. Our market evolves just as anything. In 1905 it may have been acceptable for 9 year olds to work in coal mines. It is not acceptable now and the law against it is facetious. In 1960 Japanese products were considered mostly junk, a few clicks below what we consider Chinese products now.

Who protects the unions? In the US, it took the federal government.