Jackson Lee blasts 'demeaning' Pepsi Super Bowl ad

[SMOKE 1,426]

You personally do not have to find her attractive, you don't have to find any women attractive at all, but to define Michele as ugly for whatever reason is pitiful. Her job is not to be attractive so really, your personal opinion of her looks is redundant.

you're the one that brought her up & insinuated anyone that didn't think she was attractive was racially biased towards black woman.

I can actually think of quite a number of negative stereotypes that have been applied over the years to black women, not least that Michele Obama is butt ugly, based on the idea that the perfect woman is petite, androgynous and permanently 22.

i just said.

sure. people thinking she is 'butt ugly' has nothing to do w/ the woman looking like a klingon.

because she does

[Obama 2012 1,714]

This is yet another example of self delusion.

Thank you for proving my point, yet again!

[Obama 2012 1,714]

It's racist to find racism offensive? Your powers of reasoning are quite unique.

if you saw that commercial as racist, then you pay attention to things like 'race' which inherently makes you a racist.

This is no different than the stupidity of asking 'race' on college applications, employment applications, etc....

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Thank you for proving my point, yet again!

You have no point Paul.

[Peikko 1,575]

you're the one that brought her up & insinuated anyone that didn't think she was attractive was racially biased towards black woman.

i just said.

because she does

No, that was not the point I was making, although I can see why you would like it to be. The main difficulty is that women in public life are often defined by their attractiveness when for the most part, whether or not one finds them attractive is totally irrelevant as it has no bearing on their function in public life. That being that so some women are at even more of a disadvantage than other women because the measure of what makes an attractive woman is defined by how one is conditioned to view attractiveness, and yes how one views attractiveness is conditioned and has changed over the centuries and in different countries.

It is a complex issue, but unless you understand how common it is for a women with dark pigmented skin to be undervalued simply because of that one accident of birth then you can't really understand how insidious this actually is. Yes, dark skinned women have made it in the fashion industry (one of the drivers of our perceptions of beauty) but none of them are deeply pigmented and they have a toned down version of the other characteristics of that ethnic group, a very westernized look if you will. That means that there are no role models for the characteristics that are common in different ethnic groups. Does that make you personally racist? No, but it does make you conditioned to see attractiveness in a particular way, and one that does not favour certain ethnic groups.

If women in public life were defined by their actual roles, all this would be completely moot. would that it were.

[Peikko 1,575]

if you saw that commercial as racist, then you pay attention to things like 'race' which inherently makes you a racist.

This is no different than the stupidity of asking 'race' on college applications, employment applications, etc....

What do you mean by 'paying attention to race'? If you mean looking at people and defining them by their skin colour, then absolutely that's racist particularly if you ascribe a value to skin colour but if you mean that noticing a horrible sterotype as being horrible makes you racist, then that's just stupid.

As to whether that adverts is racist itself, I haven't made a comment on it, I was commenting on the stupid you said, not on the stupid of the advert.

My biggest gripe with the advert is that pepsi are trying to push the agenda that aspartame and sucralose are 'healthy' alternatives to sugar. That's offensive.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

No, that was not the point I was making, although I can see why you would like it to be. The main difficulty is that women in public life are often defined by their attractiveness when for the most part, whether or not one finds them attractive is totally irrelevant as it has no bearing on their function in public life. That being that so some women are at even more of a disadvantage than other women because the measure of what makes an attractive woman is defined by how one is conditioned to view attractiveness, and yes how one views attractiveness is conditioned and has changed over the centuries and in different countries.

It is a complex issue, but unless you understand how common it is for a women with dark pigmented skin to be undervalued simply because of that one accident of birth then you can't really understand how insidious this actually is. Yes, dark skinned women have made it in the fashion industry (one of the drivers of our perceptions of beauty) but none of them are deeply pigmented and they have a toned down version of the other characteristics of that ethnic group, a very westernized look if you will. That means that there are no role models for the characteristics that are common in different ethnic groups. Does that make you personally racist? No, but it does make you conditioned to see attractiveness in a particular way, and one that does not favour certain ethnic groups.

If women in public life were defined by their actual roles, all this would be completely moot. would that it were.

Michelle Obama is fat and ugly. That isn't relevent to anything, but it doesn't make her more slender or better looking either.

what is her role in public life and how is she doing at it? Does anyone know?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Gary, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it's probably not a good idea to invite you and yours into a comparison as to who is aesthetically pleasing

[Fandango 1,439]

Indeed. How often was she criticized for her looks?

You used MO as example in specific regard to black women...I was showing you how it's actually for all women, not just black women.

[Marilyn. 340]

Michelle Obama is fat and ugly. That isn't relevent to anything, but it doesn't make her more slender or better looking either.

what is her role in public life and how is she doing at it? Does anyone know?

Michelle Obama is fat??

oh and by the way I don't think she is ugly either..

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

You are entitled to whatever fetish you like and no one is asking that everyone find everyone equally attractive, least of all me. However problems arise when people are treated differently based on these expectations of perfection in areas of life where it has no application. For example, being the first lady does not require one to be physically attractive. Polite, charming and diplomatic, absolutely, but attractive, not at all. Defining any first lady first and foremost by her physical attributes or lack thereof is ridiculous.

i'll throw you a life preserver, since you totally missed the boat.

[Danno 1,228]

No, that was not the point I was making, although I can see why you would like it to be. The main difficulty is that women in public life are often defined by their attractiveness when for the most part, whether or not one finds them attractive is totally irrelevant as it has no bearing on their function in public life. That being that so some women are at even more of a disadvantage than other women because the measure of what makes an attractive woman is defined by how one is conditioned to view attractiveness, and yes how one views attractiveness is conditioned and has changed over the centuries and in different countries.

It is a complex issue, but unless you understand how common it is for a women with dark pigmented skin to be undervalued simply because of that one accident of birth then you can't really understand how insidious this actually is. Yes, dark skinned women have made it in the fashion industry (one of the drivers of our perceptions of beauty) but none of them are deeply pigmented and they have a toned down version of the other characteristics of that ethnic group, a very westernized look if you will. That means that there are no role models for the characteristics that are common in different ethnic groups. Does that make you personally racist? No, but it does make you conditioned to see attractiveness in a particular way, and one that does not favour certain ethnic groups.

If women in public life were defined by their actual roles, all this would be completely moot. would that it were.

What do you mean "accident"!

Girl... you better watch yourself.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Danno

[Peikko 1,575]

Michelle Obama is fat and ugly. That isn't relevent to anything, but it doesn't make her more slender or better looking either.

what is her role in public life and how is she doing at it? Does anyone know?

Fat? By what definition is she fat? Again, please explain how being ugly is relevant? If you do not know what her role is in public life, I would suggest you do the courses for naturalization rather than your wife. Clearly you need a refresher course.

[^_^ 5,021]

Michelle Obama is unattractive but I don't see what that has to do with this thread.

[Peikko 1,575]

Michelle Obama is fat??

oh and by the way I don't think she is ugly either..

I am not quite sure how women got to be defined by an androgynous form that has more in common with the pre-pubescent child than a woman but that is clearly the reference point Gary is using in determining normal from fat.

Michelle Obama is unattractive but I don't see what that has to do with this thread.

Of course, if AJ says it's true it must be true.