Deported because parents came here Illegally

[Zero Sum 305]

Haters will hate.

[B_J 2,752]

Haters will hate.

Hey ZS,

I'm curious what your opinion is on this issue.

Consider a someone who is brought here as a child and grows up here. What do you think is the right thing to do once that person becomes an adult? I know what the legal thing to do is; but what do you think is the right thing?

[Zero Sum 305]

Hey ZS,

I'm curious what your opinion is on this issue.

Consider a someone who is brought here as a child and grows up here. What do you think is the right thing to do once that person becomes an adult? I know what the legal thing to do is; but what do you think is the right thing?

My legal AND fair opinion is that these individuals that have grown up in the country, although illegal in immigration status, deserve a chance to couple their very much American upbringing with some kind of mechanism that allows them to 'balance' the negative aspect of their undocumented status due to their parents' actions with the 'positive' of some kind of national service that would 'prove' that they 'deserve' to stay.

This means that people that like to broadbrush everyone that isn't here legally (because they only think of things in one dimension, perhaps) will have to also justify their existence as one 'deserving' of the blessings the American legal, political, and economic system have conveyed upon them by just having been born here.

In my opinion, things like the DREAM Act, if properly explained- far, far away from idiotic rhetoric and legal absolutisms that don't abide by any notions of realism or social fairness, provide for avenues for illegal immigrant children to seek legitimate avenues to citizenship based on 'positive' contributions to the nation.

In my opinion there is also a sizable segment of the native born population that due to its own idiosynchratic laziness, fails to do anything much towards the common good. While I do not seek for their removal from this nation, to perhaps a place where they would learn to appreciate how good they have it here in comparison to so many other places, it would be awesome if they were kicked out of the country and came back as illegals.

[B_J 2,752]

My legal AND fair opinion is that these individuals that have grown up in the country, although illegal in immigration status, deserve a chance to couple their very much American upbringing with some kind of mechanism that allows them to 'balance' the negative aspect of their undocumented status due to their parents' actions with the 'positive' of some kind of national service that would 'prove' that they 'deserve' to stay.

This means that people that like to broadbrush everyone that isn't here legally (because they only think of things in one dimension, perhaps) will have to also justify their existence as one 'deserving' of the blessings the American legal, political, and economic system have conveyed upon them by just having been born here.

In my opinion, things like the DREAM Act, if properly explained- far, far away from idiotic rhetoric and legal absolutisms that don't abide by any notions of realism or social fairness, provide for avenues for illegal immigrant children to seek legitimate avenues to citizenship based on 'positive' contributions to the nation.

In my opinion there is also a sizable segment of the native born population that due to its own idiosynchratic laziness, fails to do anything much towards the common good. While I do not seek for their removal from this nation, to perhaps a place where they would learn to appreciate how good they have it here in comparison to so many other places, it would be awesome if they were kicked out of the country and came back as illegals.

I am really surprised that people weren't able to find common ground on the DREAM act. To me, it's just a sad situation when we can't even sit down and talk about that one issue without it dissolving into "idiotic rhetoric."

[Zero Sum 305]

[baseless rhetoric] Well those illegal anchor babies are not legal residents, so they must be anti-Americans and criminals and must be kicked out. [/baseless rhetoric]

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

I would support the DREAM Act for children and adults up to a certain age, perhaps 21 years. But in its latest form, it would include people as old as 35. The American public doesn't support that. It's one thing to be sympathetic to children, and a totally different thing to take this deep into the age of adulthood.

Other than that, Zero Sum, I agree with you.

[Zero Sum 305]

I would support the DREAM Act for children and adults up to a certain age, perhaps 21 years. But in its latest form, it would include people as old as 35. The American public doesn't support that. It's one thing to be sympathetic to children, and a totally different thing to take this deep into the age of adulthood.

Other than that, Zero Sum, I agree with you.

Maybe that's one thing that could be re-worked if they were to re-visit the legislation. But it won't happen with the GOP having a hissy fit over 'future' Democrat voters. Maybe if they did something about their platform and how they favored all in the nation, then maybe those new voters wouldn't be mainly Democrats. But those are all suppositions based on prior amnesties and of course, political laziness.

I know these proposed laws need to be discussed in detail, with bright neon highlighting the things that are in them, instead of letting pundits and hack commentaries swaying opinions that are uninformed at best or already biased (for X, Y, Z reasons) at worst.

[Boiler 45,467]

I will go with JustBob, with the caveat that you would have to pay International Rates, no subsidy. The DREAM Act went way beyond the headlines.

With regards to the other issues nobody gets asked to leave. If you come to ICE attention, pretty remote unless you have been arrested for a serious offence and do not live in a sanctuary City, then assuming you have no other option to adjust, COR whatever, you can ask for Voluntary Departure, they release you and give you x months to wrap up your affairs and leave, or in more serious cases you remain in custody and they escort you out of the Country. There is an Air ICE for regular flights.

There is no pretty please would you go home.

[Boiler 45,467]

Maybe that's one thing that could be re-worked if they were to re-visit the legislation. But it won't happen with the GOP having a hissy fit over 'future' Democrat voters. Maybe if they did something about their platform and how they favored all in the nation, then maybe those new voters wouldn't be mainly Democrats. But those are all suppositions based on prior amnesties and of course, political laziness.

I know these proposed laws need to be discussed in detail, with bright neon highlighting the things that are in them, instead of letting pundits and hack commentaries swaying opinions that are uninformed at best or already biased (for X, Y, Z reasons) at worst.

Undocumented Democrats?

I found that amusing bearing in mind the Dems have a history of anti immigration policies.

[rika60607 215]

Why do you want to make universities rich? They are overpriced and do not deserve so much tuition money anyway.

I will go with JustBob, with the caveat that you would have to pay International Rates, no subsidy.

[Zero Sum 305]

Undocumented Democrats?

I found that amusing bearing in mind the Dems have a history of anti immigration policies.

Indeed. This is what happens when you mix a little bit of political hackery with other things.

Why do you want to make universities rich? They are overpriced and do not deserve so much tuition money anyway.

Better to have them show their worth instead of punishing them. I think a modern society would work so much better if people were rewarded for their positives instead of having the first reaction be instant punishment for their negatives.

[Boiler 45,467]

I said no subsidy.

You pay the normal rate that anybody coming from overseas pays, I am not proposing a surcharge.

If somebody does not feel that they are worth it (an understandable position) then there is no compulsion.

[rika60607 215]

No subsidy?

So you think that when an in-state student goes to the university, the university gets paid the same for this student (student's money + subsidy) as for an out-of-state student? It does not.

Anyway, this whole 2 year college thing is bogus... the military service would rule though!

I said no subsidy.

You pay the normal rate that anybody coming from overseas pays, I am not proposing a surcharge.

If somebody does not feel that they are worth it (an understandable position) then there is no compulsion.

[Zero Sum 305]

No subsidy?

So you think that when an in-state student goes to the university, the university gets paid the same for this student (student's money + subsidy) as for an out-of-state student? It does not.

Anyway, this whole 2 year college thing is bogus... the military service would rule though!

Military service would indeed rule. Alternatively, a national service corps. Infrastructure, social support. Show the nation they really do want to be Americans.

[Boiler 45,467]

I am not a US Citizen, but I have a step son who is. When he looked at Uni if he went out of State the cost was something like 3x in State. Somebody undocumented would have been charged a lot less than he would have been, which is crazy.

The F1 Student rates would be the most logical, but I might bend on that, do not know enough about how the rates are structured. Basically you are giving somebody a pass, letting them get a discount is just unfair on the person sitting next to them who did it legally.

Judging from what I have read elsewhere about the DREAM Act there was very little interest in the Military option.