German theologians call for end to celibacy

[Dan and Judy 614]

That does rather negate the point of the vow of celibacy. It's meant to be something that people choose as a sacrifice, a constant struggle, not a quick snip and your fixed. Besides which, it is also odious to try to peddle the view that it's the vow of celibacy that turns people into child molesters - that's clearly not the cause at all.

Hey the "Big Guy" himself recommended it

For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from [their] mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive [it], let him receive [it].

Matthew 19:12

It's not a snip, it's a chop, chop, chop, chop

[james&olya 1,121]

The problem is: you accuse others of your own faults.

[james&olya 1,121]

That does rather negate the point of the vow of celibacy. It's meant to be something that people choose as a sacrifice, a constant struggle, not a quick snip and your fixed. Besides which, it is also odious to try to peddle the view that it's the vow of celibacy that turns people into child molesters - that's clearly not the cause at all.

I think the problem for the church lies in it going so much against human nature as it has evolved (or as God created it if you cling to those myths). Normal hetero-sexual men are just not very likely to choose the priesthood with its vow of celibacy. The problem with 'pervs' entering the clergy is that their behaviors are equally proscribed as clergy or lay-person. Add to the relatively less level of dis-incentive to becoming a priest, it inherently offers proximity and opportunity for those who are attracted to vulnerable young boys! Getting rid of this vow of celibacy would give the church the opportunity to considerably enlarge the number of people wanting to become priests such that they could become much more selective. I actually hope they don't do this as I think the church already wields way too much influence on public policy. A renewed and revitalized church freed of most of its reputation as harboring a large number of pedophiles would be much more popular and influential. So I think the pope's current policy is for the best!

[Danno 1,228]

I think the problem for the church lies in it going so much against human nature as it has evolved (or as God created it if you cling to those myths). Normal hetero-sexual men are just not very likely to choose the priesthood with its vow of celibacy. The problem with 'pervs' entering the clergy is that their behaviors are equally proscribed as clergy or lay-person. Add to the relatively less level of dis-incentive to becoming a priest, it inherently offers proximity and opportunity for those who are attracted to vulnerable young boys! Getting rid of this vow of celibacy would give the church the opportunity to considerably enlarge the number of people wanting to become priests such that they could become much more selective. I actually hope they don't do this as I think the church already wields way too much influence on public policy. A renewed and revitalized church freed of most of its reputation as harboring a large number of pedophiles would be much more popular and influential. So I think the pope's current policy is for the best!

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong, though I understand your impulse.

The more liberal the Church has become in these matters, the few candidates for the Priesthood and Convents.

Most people do not realize the huge battle going on in the Catholic ranks and how this has filtered out many promising men and women to a lesser degree.

While I am not a practicing Catholic I do have some background and enough interest to read up on it.

BUt returning to your point, it's true, what you find in the more liberal churches are ( By and large) churches in decline.

The thriving Churches are most often fundamentalist in nature.

The more the Catholic church has mellowed the less people care.

[Peikko 1,575]

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong, though I understand your impulse.

The more liberal the Church has become in these matters, the few candidates for the Priesthood and Convents.

Most people do not realize the huge battle going on in the Catholic ranks and how this has filtered out many promising men and women to a lesser degree.

While I am not a practicing Catholic I do have some background and enough interest to read up on it.

BUt returning to your point, it's true, what you find in the more liberal churches are ( By and large) churches in decline.

The thriving Churches are most often fundamentalist in nature.

The more the Catholic church has mellowed the less people care.

Bollocks.

[SuperDuper! 230]

Another angry post!

[james&olya 1,121]

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong, though I understand your impulse.

The more liberal the Church has become in these matters, the few candidates for the Priesthood and Convents.

Most people do not realize the huge battle going on in the Catholic ranks and how this has filtered out many promising men and women to a lesser degree.

While I am not a practicing Catholic I do have some background and enough interest to read up on it.

BUt returning to your point, it's true, what you find in the more liberal churches are ( By and large) churches in decline.

The thriving Churches are most often fundamentalist in nature.

The more the Catholic church has mellowed the less people care.

Of course you must be right! The church should also make the priests take additional vows, maybe never open their eyes or always walk backwards, anything to make life more difficult and un-natural. This would bring in so many more candidates for the priesthood since, as you say, making things more normal and natural for regular people is what drives away those potential candidates! Riiiiiggghhhht!!

[Peikko 1,575]

Another angry post!

Clearly you need to get out and about more if you interpret that as anger. I would feel sorry for you if I could be bothered, but I can't.

[Danno 1,228]

Bollocks.

And you know that how?

St. Mary’s Seminary in Baltimore, Maryland (nickname: “The Pink Palace”)

According to former seminarians and recently ordained priests, the "gay subculture" is so prominent and accepted at St. Mary’s Seminary in Baltimore that students have long nicknamed it "The Pink Palace." Father Andrew Walter, ordained for the Diocese of Bridgeport, Connecticut in 2000, spent several semesters at the Baltimore school as a seminarian for the Diocese of Patterson, New Jersey. The problem was so bad when he was there, he explained, that "some of the students and faculty used to get dressed up in leather to go to ‘the block,’ Baltimore’s equivalent to 42nd Street in Manhattan." Seminarians, sometimes accompanied by faculty members, would do this regularly, Walter explained. "They would meet in the foyer, and then head for the gay bars."

A March 24, 2002 interview of Fr. Walter by the New York Post reported:

The Rev. Andrew Walter was tossed out of Baltimore's St. Mary's Seminary five years ago after a psychological evaluation at a church-approved treatment center concluded he was "homophobic" and had a "histrionic personality disorder." … Walter claims his traditional views led to lower grades and other forms of harassment, although he was supposed to be in a "celibate" environment. "I know for a fact guys were protected," Walter said. "Activities and agendas on the part of homosexual guys were protected." (“Critics see ‘gay bullying’ at seminaries,” New York Post, March 24, 2002)

An April 5, 2002 article by NewsMax states:

According to Father Andrew Walker, the situation at the Baltimore seminary was so bad that the vice rector delivered a lecture "in front of at least 150 people when he stated, ‘Yes, we accept openly gay seminarians; that's our policy.’" (“Homosexual Culture Undercuts Priesthood,” NewsMax.com, April 5, 2002)

EWTN personality Fr. John Trigilio stated: “The few times I was there, some of the seminarians would literally dress like gays from the Village. They would even go so far as to wear pink silk; it was like going to see La Cage Aux Folles.” Fr. John Despard states: “In my days at St. Mary’s, down the hall there would be two guys together in the shower and everybody knew it” (Michael S. Rose, Goodbye! Good Men, p. 93).

The prelate responsible for St. Mary’s Seminary is Cardinal Keeler. He was head of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops (NCCB) from 1992 – 1995.

========================

Pope orders cleanup of U.S. seminaries...

"In your country, My children, in your seminaries in the United States and Canada, My children, and the world, you have professors now so steeped in sin . . . they who call themselves My Son's chosen priests, they are vile sons of satan who are now rationalizing sin! There shall be no rationalization placed upon sin. The commandments shall not be looked at objectively and given to excuses, or reasoning to condone sin! No, My children, it is the minds poisoned by satan that spread this filth and error, this distortion of doctrine, this distortion of Tradition, and this distortion of your Faith! Awaken, pastors, from your slumber! Can you, O bishops, not spare but the little time to look into your seminaries? I say but one expression to you: they have become hell-holes of error and heresy! Clean out your seminaries, My bishops!” – Our Lady of the Roses, October 2, 1976

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Bollocks. Big hairy, sweaty cojones l

[Peikko 1,575]

Oh look more homophobia from Danno, how about that eh?

[Danno 1,228]

Oh look more homophobia from Danno, how about that eh?

Nice dodge MC.

YOu have been body slammed on facts several times by several people today on VJ, maybe you should just call it quits for now and go watch a little TV.

[Peikko 1,575]

Nice dodge MC.

YOu have been body slammed on facts several times by several people today on VJ, maybe you should just call it quits for now and go watch a little TV.

Facts? This post is brimming with them isn't it Danno? Your posts do not substantiate any of your dubious claims about the librulisation of the catholic church being the cause of the decline in church goer numbers but go on dreaming that it's all the fault of homosexuals because that's all you have.

[Peikko 1,575]

Oh, and on a side note, I am not interested in anyone's speculation as to what I do with my time, least of all yours.

[Danno 1,228]

Oh, and on a side note, I am not interested in anyone's speculation as to what I do with my time, least of all yours.

Think I got under your skin....