Hi all... starting my journey

[Fandango 1,439]

Well LisaD first off I have no bitter feelings towards my past. I've made the decisions to be single or divorced. But I dont agree with you on many points. And I truly find it boring to continue this forum in such a manner that is truly based on someones opinion or experience. So why keep beating the dead horse. I didn't stereotype the AW. I stressed that I wasn't speaking about all AW only the ones that I have dealt with. So please dont assume that I was putting all AW in the same category. I'm starting to reply to your post and I would just rather stop it right here. I came to this website looking for guidance which I have found. Now I hope that I can help others find guidance through my experience as well. I wish you good luck on your journey no matter where it may end.

Ok! good luck to you too!

[PurrSuede 0]

Now let me preface this by saying that I believe it's better for the family unit for a woman to NOT have to work a full time job and take care of the kids at the same time...unfortunately tho, this is a luxury that many families cannot afford. When I am a mother, I want to be home raising my children...at least until they go off to school. Unfortunately in this day and age, the double income family is more about necessity than it is about choosing to work outside the home...so what happens remains to be seen.

I agree with you on the part about wanting a woman who would become a mother to our children, to be at home and raising them. We did not need a double income in order to support my RW. I brought her over here, supported her, and even bought a house on my single income. Ostensibly this is what she said she wanted... when she was in Russia....

Once she came here, she ~chose~ to go to work, to make her own money, and then chose things that were contrary to what she said she wanted before we were married... ie, NOT wanting children once she had America...

This is what I meant by being "Americanized". That her friends and her social life and spending her money from her job were MORE important to her than the values that ostensibly she said she wanted from a marriage (home, children, motherhood and family).

I do not denigrate the fact that she made her own choices. But the Americanization (as I said before) was that America was now a candy store and she had plenty of pennies to spend in it.

But, those choices she made were not what she had -said- she wanted from the relationship, so then it became my choice as to whether this was a viable marriage in view of the goals I had set for finding a marriage partner...

In other words, I wouldn't have married her had she NOT said to me that she wanted those things prior to the marriage... If she had said "I can't wait to get to America so I can have my own job and spend all my money on myself..." I would NOT have married her.

I don't expect my man to take care of me while I sit on my throne. But I do expect him to work as hard as I do. If that makes someone think that I have unrealistic expectations...well then that man is simply not good enough for me & he IS better off going to find someone who's just so happy to have a man that she doesn't mind that he's a lazy loser who has no aspirations of being the best he can possibly be. I know this statement is going to be misconstrued here and fed upon like chum with a pack of pirhanas, but I stand by it's original context.

And I didn't expect her to take care of me, and rush me my slippers when I walk in the door. But I -did- expect her to work ALMOST as hard as I did. And that includes taking care of the house. I was doing 90% of the shopping (think groceries, supplies, garden goods, etc), 90% of the cooking, at least 75% of the laundry (mine and most of the joint households), at least a good 50% of the cleaning, if not more, as well as all the "heavy" chores, repair work and the traditional "man-male" work-roles (think maintenance and repairs).

While basically she thought it was more fun to pal around with her friends and go shopping for her cosmetics and finery and foo-foo, instead of lifting one of her preciously manicured fingers to try and help around the damn household.

Maybe I had unrealistic expectations... I expected a PARTNER in the household, not a lazy-a_s Russian princess who didn't act like she gave a rat's-a_s about many things, except the latest news from the beauty salon.

And nope, she was NOT "good enough" for me, and frankly, she'll be much better off finding some AM who just wants a fashion-doll playtoy, who doesn't mind that she's about the laziest woman I'd ever met, because he's too damn busy staring into her pretty Russian eyes to realize how he's been had... and is being used by a selfish, self-absorbed, self-centered woman (regardless of nationality...)

So no, Lisa, for me the critique is not exclusively directed towards the American woman, but you know, just because she's Russian sure didn't make her the perfect wife either... but I do blame a lot of her choices she made ON the American CULTURE and the American friends she made at her American job... and most of these were not males...

That I expect my man to work as hard as I do?

Yeah, well I expected my wife to be a participant in the relationship, the marriage and the household itself...

there's a surprise... to actually invest some work in running the household, without fear of breaking her perfectly manicured nails in doing so... so yeah, not necessarily for her to work as hard as I do, cuz I'm a pretty damn hard worker, but at least to SHOW some effort and interest in more than just "going to cafe for drinks with friends..."

-- Dan

[BelwinMills 0]

I know of many Russian woman coming over on an American Camp type visa. Many of them worked at a camp site with me years ago. There were many foriegn girls. They place these woman at camp sites around the USA from June through the first week of August. Then they can tour the USA until the 1st day of September then they need to go back home. I worked with ladies 30 and under this might work if she could be away from her kids that long.... Just suggesting its probably not the best option for you.

All the best if you do the Visa route.

Take care

[Satellite 1]

I know of many Russian woman coming over on an American Camp type visa. Many of them worked at a camp site with me years ago.

You are probably referring to J-1 visas. There are about 12 different reasons for getting them. But the basic idea is cultural exchange. The theory is, that these generally university students between their 2-4 year, they have 5 year programs in Russia, will visit here and take back their experience to Russia to apply there. In reality this becomes the only plausible way to get a visa to the US as a young single female. However, competition is high for participation in these work programs. Usually a really good TOEFL score, and sometimes a bribe goes a long way. Also the ladies must pay for the program and all travel costs which makes it prohibitively expensive for many Russians without sponsors. Initially I wanted my fiancee to visit me this way, but the uncertainty and length of time for being accepted into the program made us think otherwise and just do the K1.

[Texas Proud 0]

Just curious Lisa...

Are you an American woman??? If so, then why are you not marrying an AMERICAN MAN?? Is there something wrong with them???

I find it interesting that you past up my post completely... I could not find an american woman that met what I wanted... I want a smart, independent woman.. someone who looks 'good', but not a model, someone who is not fat... someone who puts family first and not a bunch of toys...

I will say you are completely wrong in that you need two incomes to make it in the US.. I would say about 75% of the men who I work with are the sole breadwinner in thier families and the women stay at home with the kids.. some will take part time work, some will do full time for awhile and then drop out again.. but IT IS THEIR decision.. the man has to work and does not have this option... How many couples do you hear that the woman is making a lot more than the man and HE stays at home with the kids?? NOT MANY..

Why do most want two incomes??? They want expensive cars... a boat, a big house.. cable TV, cell phones for everybody... expensive vacations.. maybe even an RV, private school... big screen TV, Starbucks every day (or twice)... eating out all the time.. buying fast food for the kids.. many ways to waste money and say you need two incomes to get it... but, change the livestyle and you do not need that much income...

[CarolineM 0]

The difference is Lisa didn't go out LOOKING for a UK guy...she just fell in love with whom she fell in love with.

moving on...

That camp thing you are talking about is actually how my husband and I met. He came over here through CCUSA on a J-1 visa five years in a row!! I met some russian girls working at another camp down the road actually.

totally legit!

And fun too! Definitely an option.

This is the Russian specific page...here

Also the type of J-1 visa Stewart got did NOT have the two year residency requirement. If she does get a j-1 be careful that it doesn't. Some of them REQUIRE that the non USC return to the home country for two years. You can waiver out of it, but just be careful to start!

Edited October 10, 2006 by CarolineM

[PurrSuede 0]

The difference is Lisa didn't go out LOOKING for a UK guy...she just fell in love with whom she fell in love with.

Which is different... how???

Most guys go out LOOKING for a woman... they even do it at the local bars and watering holes.

We do it at concerts, sometimes we do it at the grocery store, we like to LOOK for women...

in fact, we often do it just because we do it, because testerone tells us to go out LOOKING for a woman...

occasionally we just wind up "just falling in love with someone whom we fall in love with", but a lot of the time we go out LOOKING for a date, a partner, a lover, a spouse. Usually we have to make the first move toward someone we are interested in. And most of us guys have different criteria that tells us this woman interests us.

That's part of being a guy. That's the nature of the male creature, Caroline, I thought you'd know that by now??

Ok, I see, you're referring to a specific nationality or ethnicity???

Ummmmmmmm well most guys I know have "selection criteria" for the woman they are looking for too.

For some guys, it's age, some it's race, some it's color of hair, some it's height... some prefer a certain physical type... for some of us, we just prefer a woman of a certain nationality or ethnic heritage...

and that's a bad thing, exactly why???

-- Dan

[CarolineM 0]

That wasn't my point but never mind...

let's just move on!

[Satellite 1]

I will say you are completely wrong in that you need two incomes to make it in the US.. I would say about 75% of the men who I work with are the sole breadwinner in thier families and the women stay at home with the kids.. some will take part time work, some will do full time for awhile and then drop out again.. but IT IS THEIR decision.. the man has to work and does not have this option... How many couples do you hear that the woman is making a lot more than the man and HE stays at home with the kids?? NOT MANY..

Why do most want two incomes??? They want expensive cars... a boat, a big house.. cable TV, cell phones for everybody... expensive vacations.. maybe even an RV, private school... big screen TV, Starbucks every day (or twice)... eating out all the time.. buying fast food for the kids.. many ways to waste money and say you need two incomes to get it... but, change the livestyle and you do not need that much income...

I will have to vehemently disagree with you! Are you stuck in the 1950's? Where did the 75% breadwinner number come from? My wife and I both have to work full time and its doubtful we'll ever buy a house in San Francisco. Median home price for a 2 bedroom 1 bath is $750,000. Do you know what the mortgage payment on that would be?

We struggle now to make ends meet on two incomes. Rent alone is eating up $1,100 for a one bedroom, where the landlord is living right above us. Welcome to reality here in California. Two doctors or two lawyers are priced out of the market without a substantial down payment or inheritance to even buy a 2 bedroom home. We would love to even go on one vacation a year, have two cars, etc...

And even if the cost of living wasn't so high in California, I would love to have the things you think two incomes can buy. What's wrong with a woman that earns more than a man? I would be so proud of my wife if she did that. By the way, my mother as a registered nurse is making nearly twice as my dad who is an electrical engineer. And such couples are not alone. The Filipino community for example has almost all the women go into nursing with the men working part-time and taking care of kids. Not sure how they do things out in the middle of the country, but that's how things work on the coasts.

Edited October 10, 2006 by Satellite

[PurrSuede 0]

I will have to vehemently disagree with you! Are you stuck in the 1950's? Where did the 75% breadwinner number come from? My wife and I both have to work full time and its doubtful we'll ever buy a house in San Francisco. Median home price for a 2 bedroom 1 bath is $750,000. Do you know what the mortgage payment on that would be?

< snip > ....

Not sure how they do things out in the middle of the country, but that's how things work on the coasts.

ahhhhhhhhh but that's a HUGE difference, between the coasts and the "middle of the country"...

There are huge differences in the cost of living and the housing market and everything else.

So I don't think he's stuck in the 1950's... I think you're stuck on the coast!

-- Dan

[Satellite 1]

So I don't think he's stuck in the 1950's... I think you're stuck on the coast!

Wouldn't trade it for anything. Love California and what it has to offer. I think a majority of the US population is on the coasts, and that breadwinner number is closer to 25%.

Here are some inspiring articles on the subject.

http://www.contemporaryfamilies.org/subtem...&ext=mintz1

http://www-scf.usc.edu/~clarkjen/coontz.doc

[Texas Proud 0]

I will say you are completely wrong in that you need two incomes to make it in the US.. I would say about 75% of the men who I work with are the sole breadwinner in thier families and the women stay at home with the kids.. some will take part time work, some will do full time for awhile and then drop out again.. but IT IS THEIR decision.. the man has to work and does not have this option... How many couples do you hear that the woman is making a lot more than the man and HE stays at home with the kids?? NOT MANY..

Why do most want two incomes??? They want expensive cars... a boat, a big house.. cable TV, cell phones for everybody... expensive vacations.. maybe even an RV, private school... big screen TV, Starbucks every day (or twice)... eating out all the time.. buying fast food for the kids.. many ways to waste money and say you need two incomes to get it... but, change the livestyle and you do not need that much income...

I will have to vehemently disagree with you! Are you stuck in the 1950's? Where did the 75% breadwinner number come from? My wife and I both have to work full time and its doubtful we'll ever buy a house in San Francisco. Median home price for a 2 bedroom 1 bath is $750,000. Do you know what the mortgage payment on that would be?

We struggle now to make ends meet on two incomes. Rent alone is eating up $1,100 for a one bedroom, where the landlord is living right above us. Welcome to reality here in California. Two doctors or two lawyers are priced out of the market without a substantial down payment or inheritance to even buy a 2 bedroom home. We would love to even go on one vacation a year, have two cars, etc...

And even if the cost of living wasn't so high in California, I would love to have the things you think two incomes can buy. What's wrong with a woman that earns more than a man? I would be so proud of my wife if she did that. By the way, my mother as a registered nurse is making nearly twice as my dad who is an electrical engineer. And such couples are not alone. The Filipino community for example has almost all the women go into nursing with the men working part-time and taking care of kids. Not sure how they do things out in the middle of the country, but that's how things work on the coasts.

Hmmm.. before you start throwing stones at me why not READ what I wrote instead of skimming and getting what YOU want to read..

I said 75% of the men I WORK WITH... not all men.. this is NOT the '50s, but real life right here in Texas..

I can not help that YOU have decided to live in such a high cost location... the median cost of a house here is $112,000.. and it is a NICE house.. so, my whole statement about making CHOICES still stand... you have made a choice to live where you do.. so you will have to have two incomes to do it.. which also means you will spend a lot more money to do 'things' since you are both working and neither have the time to do them... and you will not be saving for retirement, but will work well into your 60s or even 70s... this is exactly what I mean by people THINKING they must have two incomes to make ends meet.. you do not..

And I would have no problem with a wife making more than me.. but for some reason women seem to have this problem... not all, but it is an issue.. but I do know of two guys that do make less, and take care of the kids more than the woman.. both love it.. both wifes are miserable...

The difference is Lisa didn't go out LOOKING for a UK guy...she just fell in love with whom she fell in love with.

moving on...

And ?????? Is she not planning on marrying one??? Where did they meet? Why did she not 'like' the American guys??? There must be a reason and I can slap it down like she seems to be me for the way I found a partner...

OH.. and by the way... I lived in the UK for over a year.. met many nationalities of people... thought all were just great.. almsot got with one from the UK and one from New Zealand... just did not work out..

don't have any problems with any except for the radical Muslims that hate our country..

[PurrSuede 0]

So I don't think he's stuck in the 1950's... I think you're stuck on the coast!

Wouldn't trade it for anything. Love California and what it has to offer. I think a majority of the US population is on the coasts, and that breadwinner number is closer to 25%.

If you wouldn't trade it for anything then don't complain, because different lifestyles are possible elsewhere in America. If you love California and what it has to offer, then you've chosen that lifestyle, so don't tell us how the other figures are skewed.

As for "a majority", there are LOTS of costal areas that are not so expensive, and there's a huge portion of the country living in between the coasts... Midwest, to mid-south, to western states.

That's part of the beauty of America. Plenty of opportunity for all, and if you don't like the culture or lifestyle of where you are at, you are free to move elsewhere.

Apparently you don't care to move, so don't criticize the lifestyle of somewhere else or say "he's out of touch with reality", especially if you've never lived there, or never been there, even.

-- Dan

[slim 1,514]

The point being that to an A/W, a guy's occupation is a BIG part of what "defines" him as a man. Not so much what he does... but what he makes. A guy that works at White Castle (unless he's the district manager) is frowned upon by A/W because he doesn't have a "real job" and therefore, doesn't have any "drive, ambition, goals, etc."

Whereas, an R/W would look first at the guy for who he is, and if he's a nice guy, treats them nice, makes them laugh when they go through the drive-thru.... that's the difference.

Would I chat up the fat lady? Sure! Would I date her... NO!!! Why would I date a fat chick at White Castle when I can date a hot chick from Russia?

You just went ballistic didn't you?

I'm half-way joking, but I'll be honest here. Men look at women's attractiveness the same way that women look at men's jobs and/or social status.

Let's go back to biology class here.... women select mates based on the probability that he will be a good "provider and protector" and men select mates based on how hot they are. Argue all you want, but from cave men til Geico commercials, we're still, ALL HUMANS, doing just that. Sure other things matter, that just gets deeper into the selection process, but broken down to it's simplest form.... that's what we do.

But yet you slam the AW for making a decison based on 'ability to provide' yet you feel free to still judge a woman based on looks.

Please iron this out for me...is it ok for a woman to take what a man does for a living into account? Or is it a case of 'do as I say not as I do?'

You're making my point yet again!

Nowhere here on the Russia Forum are any men saying they didn't select their wife/girlfriend based on their looks.... THAT'S WHAT GUYS DO!!! Granted, many say that "she's different, I liked this and that, or that other thing, or whatever, about her." But no one denies that the girls from other countries are (disproportionally) hotter than what they would find and be able to have relationships with here.

What is happening is that A/W get on this forum and tell us that it's "wrong" for us to be selecting these women from Russia/Asia/etc. because we're "searching" for women based on their looks.

Why are you knocking us for doing something that we do here??? (It is on a much larger scale, and I guess the "browse and click" thing is what's really upsetting to you... I don't know.) When we go out, we look for the best looking girls we can find.... and we don't deny it!

You (A/W) on the other hand, attempt to keep up this false pretense that you're looking for a man (and potential mate) based on sunshine and puppy dogs. Don't BS!!! Be real about it and say "I'm looking for a guy with a good income, and you can reasonably expect me to do that because after all, I am an American Woman!"

[PurrSuede 0]

You're making my point yet again!

Nowhere here on the Russia Forum are any men saying they didn't select their wife/girlfriend based on their looks.... THAT'S WHAT GUYS DO!!! Granted, many say that "she's different, I liked this and that, or that other thing, or whatever, about her." But no one denies that the girls from other countries are (disproportionally) hotter than what they would find and be able to have relationships with here.

What is happening is that A/W get on this forum and tell us that it's "wrong" for us to be selecting these women from Russia/Asia/etc. because we're "searching" for women based on their looks.

Why are you knocking us for doing something that we do here??? (It is on a much larger scale, and I guess the "browse and click" thing is what's really upsetting to you... I don't know.) When we go out, we look for the best looking girls we can find.... and we don't deny it!

You (A/W) on the other hand, attempt to keep up this false pretense that you're looking for a man (and potential mate) based on sunshine and puppy dogs. Don't BS!!! Be real about it and say "I'm looking for a guy with a good income, and you can reasonably expect me to do that because after all, I am an American Woman!"

Hey, I have to say whether it's Match, Eharmony, Yahoo Personals, or the grocery store. I don't care if the woman is Russian, American, Phillipino, Australian or Peruvian... REGARDLESS of the medium that I meet her, in real life, through personals, through a matching service, a marriage broker, if I see her picture and she's NOT attractive to me, I'm NOT going to be interested.

If guys were not like this, then the entire cosmetic industry would not exist as we know it today. Much less the fashion industry.

Guys are attracted to women for their looks. I don't care if they are Russian, American, Pakistani or Ethiopian. Doesn't mean that we don't like OTHER qualities in a mate, but without a doubt, psychology studies will confirm that MEN like women who appeal to them in the sense of PHYSICALLY ATTRACTIVE.

Doesn't mean there's not someone for everyone. Maybe the "fat guy and girl" who both work at White Castle can get together over a basket of fries and really enjoy each other.

But I'm not going to invest a large sum of money (I don't care if it's dating, or international correspondence or whatever) in a woman whom I don't find personally attractive.

And here's a news flash!

Men and women do NOT find their partner in the opposite sex for the same reasons!!!

GASP!

So what if women find men for "being a good provider for me and my children"?

So what if men find women because "wow, she really knocks my socks off, she's a fox and a half and babe-a-licious to me"?

Yeah, how shallow of us, but that's how the species gets pro-created, ya think??

The important thing is we FIND each other, and hell, that's a miracle in itself half the time...

Right on, Slim!

-- Dan

Edited October 11, 2006 by PurrSuede