Is Abortion Morally Equivalent to Murdering Someone?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If you paid attention to the conversation we had you would of realized why I had to resort to the seatbelt analogy. You insisted on dumbing it down, I did mention that remember

No its not. It isnt all about her, there is another life involved.

Which has nothing to do with you. Mind your own business.

[_Simpson_ 250]

But abortion is a safety net. Don't want the kid? Get an abortion.

My point being that you shouldnt look at abortion as a saftey net but look at sex as something that can have huge consequences that involve another breathing human being and we should take sex very seriously.

The problem is it's not up to BOTH parents. Say the dude doesn't want the kid, well, he's still on the hook for 18+ years of payments. That's not really pro-choice, is it? What they need to have is a man's right to choose. If he chooses to waive his paternal rights he shouldn't be held responsible for the child. Not fair? How so? Women can abort a child without a man's consent. Why can't a man waive rights?

The dude decided to have sex,he needs to be held accountable for his actions. He didnt intend to have a child but that is a chance you take and life is not fair. If she decides not to put it up for adoption(which I believe should be her decision)then both of them needs to be held accountable for their actions. The baby in no circumstance should be held responsible for this couples actions.

Yes, you should absolutely worry today about things that might happen nine months later. Tell that to the people who have trouble paying their own rent, holding down a job, etc. They can't take care of themselves, how in the world are they going to be responsible for things in the future?

I dont believe aborting a baby is justified because he cant pay the bills.

How is that an option? You can't walk into planned parenthood and offload an adoption.

Turn on a computer and google it. Plenty of options

Not true. You have to actually use contraception in order for it to be effective.

That was my point. Its people who fail to use the contraception not the contraception.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Which has nothing to do with you. Mind your own business.

Actually saving lives is my business and it should be everyones business.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Rubbish

[_Simpson_ 250]

Really?

So then why are there so many kids in foster care and institutions in the US?

Dunno, $20-30K on top of adoption fees seems steep to me.

Newborns?

[tmma 467]

Boils down to abortions are NOT illegal when conducted in the stipulated timeframe.

Anyone that has an abortion within the time frame is not a criminal and it was their choice. That's the way it is. If someone else feels that abortion is morally reprehensible for themselves then..ok... they prob will not get one,.

I don't force my morality on others.

It's legal, they have the right to it. Their choice. That's it as far as I am concerned. Not up to me to apply my morals to their life.

If abortions were outlawed.....It would force women back to the mucky old back street room with a bottle of Jack Daniels and a coat hangar- endangering their own life.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Boils down to abortions are NOT illegal when conducted in the stipulated timeframe.

Anyone that has an abortion within the time frame is not a criminal and it was their choice. That's the way it is. If someone else feels that abortion is morally reprehensible for themselves then..ok... they prob will not get one,.

I don't force my morality on others.

It's legal, they have the right to it. Their choice. That's it as far as I am concerned. Not up to me to apply my morals to their life.

If abortions were outlawed.....It would force women back to the mucky old back street room with a bottle of Jack Daniels and a coat hangar- endangering their own life.

The OP asked the question "if it was illegal"...

The unborn babys value of life wasnt even addressed in your response. Biggest issue I have with pro-choice people. Its all about the woman. What about the baby? And yes you do force your morals on others, you would not allow one to murder another would you? Would you argue that abortion has no victims?

Edited February 3, 2011 by _Simpson_

[slim 1,530]

My point being that you shouldnt look at abortion as a saftey net but look at sex as something that can have huge consequences that involve another breathing human being and we should take sex very seriously.

Should. How about reality instead of what "should" happen.

The dude decided to have sex,he needs to be held accountable for his actions. He didnt intend to have a child but that is a chance you take and life is not fair. If she decides not to put it up for adoption(which I believe should be her decision)then both of them needs to be held accountable for their actions.

Why does the dude have no choice in this?

The baby in no circumstance should be held responsible for this couples actions.

The baby is always that the mercy of dumb parents, whether that means growing up in poverty, turning into a felon, reproducing future losers, etc. It's a no win. At least abortion reduces the numbers a little.

I dont believe aborting a baby is justified because he cant pay the bills.

So who pays?

Turn on a computer and google it. Plenty of options

Almost all of which include tax dollars. That's what I have a problem with. To me abortion isn't a morality issue it's a simple economic issue. Can't pay for kids? Don't have them. Period.

That was my point. Its people who fail to use the contraception not the contraception.

So you want to make the babies pay by living with stupid parents and then becoming stupid people too? You're making society pay as well because they tend to breed faster than everyone else. Ever seen Idiocracy?

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Post containing personal attack, plus post quoting same, have been removed. Please confine your comments to the topic and refrain from making comments about other posters in the thread.

[The_Dude 1,142]

Post containing personal attack, plus post quoting same, have been removed. Please confine your comments to the topic and refrain from making comments about other posters in the thread.

####### Kathryn, how is that a personal attack? Any inference made by the reader is purely their own. I was swayed by Simpsons articulate and rational argument.

[Fandango 1,439]

How so?

An ex-boyfriend wants her to have an abortion, but she refuses, so he beats her. The cops are called. He is arrested. She is rushed to the hospital. She is suffering internal bleeding, and the only way to save her life is to terminate her pregnancy early. All attempts are made to preserve the life of her premature child, but at 24 weeks, the situation is close to hopeless, and the infant dies after only a few hours. The mother recovers fully, at least physically.

Should the ex-boyfriend be charged with murder? Did he kill a human being?

I think that shows a pretty good situation where there IS intent to kill. If you take out the bit about him wanting her to have an abortion, then you just have a violent argument between a man and a pregnant woman where a miscarriage results.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it law that if someone dies, even accidentally, while in the commission of a crime, the offender is charged with capital murder?

In this specific scenario, wouldn't that apply?

I believe that life begins at conception and that abortion is murder of a human being. With the exception of abortion to save the life of the woman, the point of abortion is to prevent a live birth of a human being. That's the bottom line, and that's why it's murder.

Good Lord, I agree with you.

I also agree with Simpson - it's not about just the woman anymore when there is a child involved.

And if you don't want children, then exercise better contraceptive choices.

_______

Speaking in reality, and not 'what if' scenarios...I do find it odd and most confusing when cases like Scott Peterson's come to light. Either killing a fetus is murder, or it's not. Either a fetus is a person or it's not. I understand Lacy's situation was such that she was about to give birth, and not under 20 weeks, but at the end of the day, how is the law defining when the life starts?

[tmma 467]

The OP asked the question "if it was illegal"...

The unborn babys value of life wasnt even addressed in your response. Biggest issue I have with pro-choice people. Its all about the woman. What about the baby? And yes you do force your morals on others, you would not allow one to murder another would you? Would you argue that abortion has no victims?

Murder is illegal.

Abortion isn't; and IMO trying to equate the two is just one person trying to morally impact the life of someone else and stand in judgement of them as far as their choices concerning what they do as far as having an abortion or not.

I personally don't think i could have an abortion--but that doesn't mean i think differently or judge someone else that has......#######? I've never walked in their shoes and it's not up to you or me or anyone to try and make people live more by our personal morals. That's why we have a supposedly impartial law....and that law says it's legal.

o/t dang-I missed the deleted posts someone fill me in !

edit...I just want to add though, that in no way should abortion be used as 'contraception'...don't want kids? Go on the pill!

Edited February 3, 2011 by tmma

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

I've had an abortion. Ok everyone attack me now.

Me too. In fact, I had two. I don't regret either one I had, and both were within the confines of a then-intact and loving marriage. We did not make that decision lightly on either occasion. The way my life has turned out, I cannot imagine having a 14 year old and 10 year old to raise now. I love children, but I have chosen to be child-free. I cannot take the pill, so my birth control options going forward are limited to barrier methods (the rhythm method does not work for me and my cycle). Luckily, my boyfriend had the snip years back!

It was my choice to make, and it was made with the support of my husband. And it was not a form of birth control for us -- like a lot of married couples, sometimes you get lazy. We were lazy -- not stupid or morally reprehensible. And no, I genuinely do not wonder what our children would have been like. I am all for a woman choosing what she wants to do with her reproductive life -- a mother, a working mother, a stay at home mom, a childfree wife, a childfree mess like me. I would never presume to tell a woman that she should not have a baby, just because I don't want children.

If Amby's going to get attacked for this, take a swipe at me first. I'm a double-murderer after all.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You can't have a child of you can't or aren't willing to support it. That's a responsible decision.

[tmma 467]

The OP asked the question "if it was illegal"...

It's not illegal...and even if it were , it would not stop abortions from happening.