Is Abortion Morally Equivalent to Murdering Someone?

[faust-yusov 103]

but like slim said, there doesn't seem to be a standard, across the board. in some states if you kill a woman along with her unborn fetus it's considered an extenuating circumstance in the murder charges brought forward, and in others, as far as the judicial system is concerned, they could not care less if she was pregnant or not, no charges will ever be filed re. the fetus. it's weird and arbitrary that geography should be a factor, but it is.

as well, are miscarriage support groups, women who grieve over miscarriages and stillbirths, etc, completely crazy and delusional then? the value of an embryo or fetus seems to be exclusively based on whether its presence is wanted or not

Should this seem surprising? Determinism is a crucial factor. If you use contraception at any point in your life, your reasoning is that without it, a child will come into existence. You are taking steps to prevent an otherwise determined outcome.

Embracing that determined outcome, however, embraces that future child as early as the decision to have unprotected sex.

[rika60607 215]

Ok,

but the baby given up at birth because it was unwanted to begin with, has no guardian.

Sorry I actually was refering to the issue of debt. IE Debt incurred by a minor is the responsibility of their guardian, therefore the rights of a fetus can not be excluded on the principle of debt.

[_Simpson_ 250]

And if nobody wants to adopt that baby that comes with a $20,000-$30,000 medical /early care bill? Who pays then?

There is no shortage of people wanting to adopt newborns that can afford it.

[sandinista! 1,816]

I'm a little confused. Are you playing devil's advocate or do you really believe this to be true?

i'm just making conversation.

[sandinista! 1,816]

There is no shortage of people wanting to adopt newborns that can afford it.

this is embarrassing, and you give people who have moral issues with the nature of abortion a bad name. the things you are spouting are straight up delusional.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

This happens all the time. Im required to put my seatbelt on. Now when you dumb it down to this level I have every right to use the seatbelt example.

When a woman gets pregnant it isnt just about her rights anymore.

#######. What a stupid analogy

Please they are not slaves to there reproductive system. They own and control their reproductive system and could it have it removed. Hardly a slave. Now if she uses her reproductive system and brings another life into the equation it isnt all about her anymore. How selfish of the woman to think its all about her in this sort of situation.

How sexist of you to think that.

[slim 1,528]

Well there should be some responsibility associated with having sex especially considering that another life could be brought into the situation and abortion should never be looked at as a safety net.

But abortion is a safety net. Don't want the kid? Get an abortion.

The problem is it's not up to BOTH parents. Say the dude doesn't want the kid, well, he's still on the hook for 18+ years of payments. That's not really pro-choice, is it? What they need to have is a man's right to choose. If he chooses to waive his paternal rights he shouldn't be held responsible for the child. Not fair? How so? Women can abort a child without a man's consent. Why can't a man waive rights?

If your not ready to take on the responsibility of a baby you shouldnt be having sex.

Yes, you should absolutely worry today about things that might happen nine months later. Tell that to the people who have trouble paying their own rent, holding down a job, etc. They can't take care of themselves, how in the world are they going to be responsible for things in the future?

Also there is a better option, adoption.

How is that an option? You can't walk into planned parenthood and offload an adoption.

Contraception work most of the time it is the people who fail.

Not true. You have to actually use contraception in order for it to be effective.

[Amby 490]

I've had an abortion. Ok everyone attack me now.

[Ban Hammer 13,360]

I've had an abortion. Ok everyone attack me now.

[rika60607 215]

I agree with you. If a man gives up his parental rights (has to be forever and ever though) - he should not be liable for child support. But, man has to make that decision at a time when it is still safe for a woman to have an abortion (1st trimester). That would be fare.

The problem is it's not up to BOTH parents. Say the dude doesn't want the kid, well, he's still on the hook for 18+ years of payments. That's not really pro-choice, is it? What they need to have is a man's right to choose. If he chooses to waive his paternal rights he shouldn't be held responsible for the child. Not fair? How so? Women can abort a child without a man's consent. Why can't a man waive rights?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I've had an abortion. Ok everyone attack me now.

that'll be interesting

[rika60607 215]

Really?

So then why are there so many kids in foster care and institutions in the US?

Dunno, $20-30K on top of adoption fees seems steep to me.

There is no shortage of people wanting to adopt newborns that can afford it.

[_Simpson_ 250]

#######. What a stupid analogy

If you paid attention to the conversation we had you would of realized why I had to resort to the seatbelt analogy. You insisted on dumbing it down, I did mention that remember

How sexist of you to think that.

No its not. It isnt all about her, there is another life involved.

[Danno 1,228]

I've had an abortion. Ok everyone attack me now.

How old would that child be now?

DO you ever look at a kid that age and wonder... what if?

[_Simpson_ 250]

I've had an abortion. Ok everyone attack me now.

I wonder if planned parenthood is still carrying their "I had a abortion" t-shirts.