Mom hit teen daughter before shooting

[Peikko 1,575]

Are you saying that killing more than one person at a time is worse than killing just one? And killing them in a more "disconnected" way somehow makes it better?

No, I'm not saying anything of the sort.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Are you saying that killing more than one person at a time is worse than killing just one? And killing them in a more "disconnected" way somehow makes it better?

Guns make it easier.

slim, I understand that guns are always going to be a part of American society. You daily make it abundantly clear that you hope it stays that way.

Simply because we don't share the same enthusiasm for guns doesn't mean there is not one underlying truth between the two camps. And the truth is that guns make it easier for people to commit crimes, including murder.

You can't deny that. Neither can I. It's the truth.

[slim 1,525]

Guns make it easier.

slim, I understand that guns are always going to be a part of American society. You daily make it abundantly clear that you hope it stays that way.

Simply because we don't share the same enthusiasm for guns doesn't mean there is not one underlying truth between the two camps. And the truth is that guns make it easier for people to commit crimes, including murder.

You can't deny that. Neither can I. It's the truth.

But it's illegal for them to do so.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

But it's illegal for them to do so.

That's correct.

It was also illegal for you to get drunk and brandish a weapon (or whatever it was that you did). But you did it anyway. Now don't jump all stiff-legged and say this is some sort of attack on you, because it is not. It's just the best example of human nature I can think of that you might be able to relate to.

[slim 1,525]

That's correct.

It was also illegal for you to get drunk and brandish a weapon (or whatever it was that you did). But you did it anyway. Now don't jump all stiff-legged and say this is some sort of attack on you, because it is not. It's just the best example of human nature I can think of that you might be able to relate to.

I didn't brandish a weapon. I used a weapon while intoxicated. (Which, here in Ohio, mere possession is equal to use as the law is worded.)

The law didn't stop me from doing that. No matter how illegal it would've been, I did it anyway. Same deal with this mom that murdered her kids. She jumped through all the legal hoops with the gun... and then broke the law. How could we make that more illegal?

If you wanna break it all the way down, speeding is illegal yet folks speed all the time. You can't make it more illegal. You could stop it by banning cars but then would you really be fixing the problem?

[The_Dude 1,142]

Folks convicted of even misdemeanor domestic violence are barred from possessing weapons.

I think we all know how well criminals follow this

[slim 1,525]

I think we all know how well criminals follow this

Exactly my point. No matter how illegal you make something there's a criminal element that will disregard the law.

[The_Dude 1,142]

Exactly my point. No matter how illegal you make something there's a criminal element that will disregard the law.

So clearly, I think you'll agree with me, we should monitor our criminal population, to make sure they are not in possesion of items that they are forbidden from having. Anyone convicted of a crime that is either violent, or involves a gun should forfeit their 2nd amendment rights. They simply cannot be trusted to safely and responsibly use firearms.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

I didn't brandish a weapon. I used a weapon while intoxicated. (Which, here in Ohio, mere possession is equal to use as the law is worded.)

The law didn't stop me from doing that. No matter how illegal it would've been, I did it anyway. Same deal with this mom that murdered her kids. She jumped through all the legal hoops with the gun... and then broke the law. How could we make that more illegal?

If you wanna break it all the way down, speeding is illegal yet folks speed all the time. You can't make it more illegal. You could stop it by banning cars but then would you really be fixing the problem?

Yes speeding is illegal and people do it all the time. Which is why cops sometimes set speed traps over the top of hills. It's why we teach our children about defensive driving when they are learning to drive. So clearly we know people speed and we as a society take measures to either punish the speeders, or protect ourselves from them.

You mentioned earlier that a misdemeanor DV conviction is enough to stop a person from legal purchase of a firearm. Seeing as how I am familiar with how far the perpetrator has to go to get convicted, I'm unconvinced that this is a low enough bar. I do not think that we as a society do enough to protect ourselves from nutters and hotheads getting their hands on a weapon.

We do not have to make gun ownership illegal. We can do more to keep weapons out of the hands of people who are too unstable to own them.

[slim 1,525]

So clearly, I think you'll agree with me, we should monitor our criminal population, to make sure they are not in possesion of items that they are forbidden from having.

I disagree. The logistics of such an operation would be overwhelming for any government agency.

Anyone convicted of a crime that is either violent, or involves a gun should forfeit their 2nd amendment rights. They simply cannot be trusted to safely and responsibly use firearms.

So everyone with a DUI should be barred from riding in cars?

I am familiar with how far the perpetrator has to go to get convicted, I'm unconvinced that this is a low enough bar.

Then you also know how easy it is for some folks to get convicted without doing anything at all.

I do not think that we as a society do enough to protect ourselves from nutters and hotheads getting their hands on a weapon.

How would you propose we stop criminals from doing violent things with weapons? Should police do more raids? Check houses more often? Lock criminals up more?

How would you pay for all that?

We do not have to make gun ownership illegal. We can do more to keep weapons out of the hands of people who are too unstable to own them.

Like what? How would you do more?

[The_Dude 1,142]

I disagree. The logistics of such an operation would be overwhelming for any government agency.

Ankle bracelets. You're not acquainted with them?

So everyone with a DUI should be barred from riding in cars?

Nice try to deflect there slim. A DUI is nto a violent or weapons charge. People who are callous, or ignorant enough to fire off a weapon whilst inebriated clearly lack the judgement and capacity to responsibly handle firearms.

Then you also know how easy it is for some folks to get convicted without doing anything at all.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Then you also know how easy it is for some folks to get convicted without doing anything at all.

I think the odds of having done "nothing at all" and being arrested or charged are pretty small. There's usually at least an argument to get things going. "Doing nothing at all", IMO, means literally having never opened your mouth. This is not the same thing as the opposite two sides of a coin, which is often the case in a baseless charge.

You'll certainly get no conviction if someone has done "nothing at all".

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

How would you propose we stop criminals from doing violent things with weapons? Should police do more raids? Check houses more often? Lock criminals up more?

How would you pay for all that?

I wouldn't propose any of the first two things you mentioned so I'm not worried about paying for that. I'm not sure where you are going with the third.

Like what? How would you do more?

Now I'm going to do what you do so often. Which is answer a question with a question.

As an advocate of the 2nd, what would you do?

[slim 1,525]

Ankle bracelets. You're not acquainted with them?

Nope. Perhaps we should bring back the stocks for folks on the public square too?

Nice try to deflect there slim. A DUI is nto a violent or weapons charge. People who are callous, or ignorant enough to fire off a weapon whilst inebriated clearly lack the judgement and capacity to responsibly handle firearms.

So someone who operates a vehicle while inebriated is OK to drive and/or ride in a car later?

I think the odds of having done "nothing at all" and being arrested or charged are pretty small.

You'd be surprised. A loud argument often leads to DV charges.

There's usually at least an argument to get things going.

So even you acknowledge that it happens.

"Doing nothing at all", IMO, means literally having never opened your mouth. This is not the same thing as the opposite two sides of a coin, which is often the case in a baseless charge.

So then why are folks charged?

You'll certainly get no conviction if someone has done "nothing at all".

Not true.

I wouldn't propose any of the first two things you mentioned so I'm not worried about paying for that. I'm not sure where you are going with the third.

Then what would you propose? How do you keep guns and other prohibited items out of the hands of criminals?

As an advocate of the 2nd, what would you do?

I'd let it sort itself out.

Take away all cops, sheriffs, any law enforcement at all and I'd bet you in about a year we'd have the most peaceful society in the world. Take away all welfare and other social programs (plus cops) and in about three years we'd have the most productive, polite society in the history of mankind.

[The_Dude 1,142]

Nope. Perhaps we should bring back the stocks for folks on the public square too?

Naw, that would be cruel and unusual and thus prohibited.

So someone who operates a vehicle while inebriated is OK to drive and/or ride in a car later?

There are cases where people who are habitual DUI offenders lose their license permanently. I support that. The function of a car is not even close to that of a gun. You're trying to shove a square peg through a round hole again.

Take away all cops, sheriffs, any law enforcement at all and I'd bet you in about a year we'd have the most peaceful society in the world. Take away all welfare and other social programs (plus cops) and in about three years we'd have the most productive, polite society in the history of mankind.

Oh wait, you're being serious? Even funnier.