British Holocaust Denier Gets Three Years In Prison (in Austria)

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

By VERONIKA OLEKSYN

The Associated Press

Monday, February 20, 2006; 1:00 PM

VIENNA, Austria -- Right-wing British historian David Irving pleaded guilty Monday to denying the Holocaust and was sentenced to three years in prison, even after conceding he wrongly said there were no Nazi gas chambers at the Auschwitz concentration camp.

[...]

"I made a mistake when I said there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz," Irving told the court before his sentencing, at which he faced up to 10 years in prison.

He also expressed sorrow "for all the innocent people who died during the Second World War."

But he insisted he never wrote a book about the Holocaust, which he called "just a fragment of my area of interest."

"In no way did I deny the killings of millions of people by the Nazis," testified Irving, who has written nearly 30 books.

[...]

Irving, 67, has been in custody since his November arrest on charges stemming from two speeches he gave in Austria in 1989 in which he was accused of denying the Nazis' extermination of 6 million Jews. He has contended that most of those who died at concentration camps such as Auschwitz succumbed to diseases such as typhus rather than execution.

The convicted Irving after his guilty plea under the 1992 law, which applies to "whoever denies, grossly plays down, approves or tries to excuse the National Socialist genocide or other National Socialist crimes against humanity in a print publication, in broadcast or other media."

[...]

In the past, however, he has claimed that Adolf Hitler knew little if anything about the Holocaust, and he has been quoted as saying there was "not one shred of evidence" the Nazis carried out their "Final Solution" to exterminate the Jewish population on such a massive scale.

[...]

Irving has had numerous run-ins with the law over the years.

In 1992, a judge in Germany fined him the equivalent of $6,000 for publicly insisting the Nazi gas chambers at Auschwitz were a hoax.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...2000151_pf.html

[almaty 19]

you mean there really was a Holocaust...(just a poor joke)..most muslims know the saddness and terrible times of our jewish brothers and sisters..plus gypsys and others...

[AnaAndDaniel 0]

what a friggin nut case.

i do not agree with that law, but dayum (as shon is apt to say) this guy is a nut.

Daniel

:energetic:

[Sister Fracas 5]

I may get flamed or something, but I don't understand how someone could get a prison sentence for this.... I'm in no way trying to minimize the atrocities, btw.

.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I may get flamed or something, but I don't understand how someone could get a prison sentence for this.... I'm in no way trying to minimize the atrocities, btw.

.

Europe has some crazy laws about the Holocaust.

[AnaAndDaniel 0]

I may get flamed or something, but I don't understand how someone could get a prison sentence for this.... I'm in no way trying to minimize the atrocities, btw.

.

Europe has some crazy laws about the Holocaust.

i suppose you'd get that way after going through that war and the related atrocities.

Daniel

:energetic:

[RaspberrySwirl 20]

I may get flamed or something, but I don't understand how someone could get a prison sentence for this.... I'm in no way trying to minimize the atrocities, btw.

.

Touchy subject in most European countries.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I may get flamed or something, but I don't understand how someone could get a prison sentence for this.... I'm in no way trying to minimize the atrocities, btw.

.

agreed. It trivializes free speech.

[mikeize 0]

I feel the same way. Don't get me wrong, a big part of me is totally happy to since this nazi ###### packed off to the big-house, but on the other hand, outlawing opinions isn't high on my list of "nice things the gov't can do". This reminds me of the current "glorifying terrorism" bills/debates in England. Again, I'm opposed to this kind of law in both instances, even though I am sickened by those they happen to be targetting IN THESE SPECIFIC CASES.

-mike

[Peter Miami 0]

I am not Jewish but I would say anybody who denies that should go to jail because with history being in the books we still committed the same mistakes so imaging if it was not remembered.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I feel the same way. Don't get me wrong, a big part of me is totally happy to since this nazi ###### packed off to the big-house, but on the other hand, outlawing opinions isn't high on my list of "nice things the gov't can do". This reminds me of the current "glorifying terrorism" bills/debates in England. Again, I'm opposed to this kind of law in both instances, even though I am sickened by those they happen to be targetting IN THESE SPECIFIC CASES.

-mike

Agreed.

[minha_raposa 0]

Seems a little strange that EU countries allow free speech as it relates to those muslim toons...but it's not ok when someone questions the holocaust? Definitely a double standard and allows extremist muslims a rationalized arument against free speech.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Seems a little strange that EU countries allow free speech as it relates to those muslim toons...but it's not ok when someone questions the holocaust? Definitely a double standard and allows extremist muslims a rationalized arument against free speech.

There are (and should be) laws against encouraging any kind of extremism. One guy denying that the holocaust didn't happen (or was somehow grossly exaggerated) is just showing the world what an self-deceiving idiot he is. Nothing he should be jailed for - as opposed to say, Abu Hamza who was recently jailed in Britain for actively inciting religious hatred and encouraging members of his congregation to engage in acts of violence.

There is a difference with regards to free-speech when it comes to an individual vs. the philosophy of a group of people. Organised groups of people who deny the holocaust typically have fascist leanings - movements of that sort are dangerous, and people should be jailed. Not necessarily for the act of denying the holocaust itself, but because the denial forms the basis of justification for their wider anti-semitic views. That said, a lot of people who participate in Nazi groups don't actually deny the holocaust - for them the extermination camps are actually a point of pride. Again. Ignorant, uneducated people.

Something noone mentioned amid all the fuss of that cartoon fiasco - is that Muhammed has actually been depicted in various works of art (some by muslims) for very many years. The whole furore over those cartoons does not lie in the drawings themselves but in the underlying anti-western resentment among some muslims. Their argument is primarily political NOT religious.

[minha_raposa 0]

Seems a little strange that EU countries allow free speech as it relates to those muslim toons...but it's not ok when someone questions the holocaust? Definitely a double standard and allows extremist muslims a rationalized arument against free speech.

There are (and should be) laws against encouraging any kind of extremism. One guy denying that the holocaust didn't happen (or was somehow grossly exaggerated) is just showing the world what an self-deceiving idiot he is. Nothing he should be jailed for - as opposed to say, Abu Hamza who was recently jailed in Britain for actively inciting religious hatred and encouraging members of his congregation to engage in acts of violence.

There is a difference with regards to free-speech when it comes to an individual vs. the philosophy of a group of people. Organised groups of people who deny the holocaust typically have fascist leanings - movements of that sort are dangerous, and people should be jailed. Not necessarily for the act of denying the holocaust itself, but because the denial forms the basis of justification for their wider anti-semitic views. That said, a lot of people who participate in Nazi groups don't actually deny the holocaust - for them the extermination camps are actually a point of pride. Again. Ignorant, uneducated people.

Something noone mentioned amid all the fuss of that cartoon fiasco - is that Muhammed has actually been depicted in various works of art (some by muslims) for very many years. The whole furore over those cartoons does not lie in the drawings themselves but in the underlying anti-western resentment among some muslims. Their argument is primarily political NOT religious.

Well said Fishdude...

I certainly hate to see this idiot go to jail just for being an idiot (political) just as I hate to see a government put a limit on what is free speech. I find this terribly hypocritical in light of what has taken place oer the cartoons and championed as free speech (religious) by virtually all western democracies.

However, I realize that extremist muslims need only to perceive an injustice against the muslim faith by a westerner as an excuse and justification for violence.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I certainly hate to see this idiot go to jail just for being an idiot (political) just as I hate to see a government put a limit on what is free speech. I find this terribly hypocritical in light of what has taken place over the cartoons and championed as free speech (religious) by virtually all western democracies.

If one wants to talk about double standards, then I'd encourage to take a look at the double standards of those setting buildings and people on fire and those supporting such acts. Go on, read their newspapers and look at their toons. Then come back and talk about double standards.

I'd also encourage to acknowledge the fact that there's a rather significant difference between a dozen toons and millions of abused, tortured and slaughtered people. After all, those cmplaining about the toons have no problem using toons to take stab at other groups - religous or otherwise. Yet, those attacked by the other side don't go around torching embassies and innocent bystanders.

Finally, free speech is (in most places) limited by a number of laws designed to protect individuals from potential damage of the exercise of "free speech" by others. No right, including that to free speech, is ever absolute.

Familiarize yourself with both the roots and the effects that Holocaust denial in Europe has. Make no mistake as to who these people are - they're neo-nazis that go around torching homeless shelters, shelters that house asylum seekers, throw Africans off trains and make it their sport to brutalize anyone looking foreign. Quite obviously, no sane person would ever deny that the Holocaust took place. The evidence is overwhelming. Gotta ask yourself: Does Europe have a right to protect itself from the historically insane?

Edited February 21, 2006 by ET-US2004