Abuse of power in the American Consulate

[Lisamarie 79]

Oops....three sisters living at home.

I think there is way too much generalizing about Moroccan men though. That would be like saying American men look for x,y, and z, "only" If they're not looking for that, they're not real. Moroccan men are individuals, just like everywhere else in the world, and I don't believe they fit into a mold. I feel like my husband and his family are the completely "untypical" Moroccan family, going by what you ladies are listing as the typical or normal Moroccan family. Out of all of his brothers and sisters, only two are married, one on his second marriage with kids from a previous marriage. The other that is married has no children. Two sisters living at home, one divorced with young children, one divorced with an adult child, and one (40 and very pretty) never married....three older brothers never married. We didn't meet on a dating site, we met on a social site, and I approached him and gave him a friend request.

I do believe that there are many of the typical Moroccan men out there, I just don't believe it's most of the population.

[princess apple 4]

She's a tough broad. Just bear in mind that by denying your fiance, she is testing your relationship. She knows the options that are open to you when it comes to appealing and re filing. While some people on this site (myself included) can be very harsh at times, bear in mind it's because we've seen some stuff regarding Morocco and it's consulate- VJ is a great place to prepare yourself for what's ahead in your journey, and I hope we can help if at all possible.

Sarah

[princess apple 4]

Thanks for that piece of information. i am so sorry for the mis spelling, i was typing in the dark. In the beginning of my relationship I sounded like a police officer before we ever got serious. I myself have family that are not US citizens. I am a Bahamian desendant through my maternal grandparents. The people can be fake from almost anywhere even here in the good old USA. I have seen it before within my family with cousins. It makes it hard for everyone when the truth is distorted. I am grateful that I met my fince's family and friends and got to spend time alone with just them. i learned alot about them and him. though the friends where a bit shy with answering my questions, they did make it quite clear of how he has sacrificed alot to talk to me at times. even durring weather warnings. he even borrowed the money for a few calling cards whenever he got broke. since i know that, i now make most of the calls with m y calling plan. but i have a real old fashion person like myself that has a sharp since of humor, great intellect that i love, sporty, and a great sence of style. he does not try to keep up with everyone else. he takes care of his mother who is very sick. i took care of her wheni was there , which made it hard for me to coem back home to the USA. I miss her alot as well. I get to talk to his sisters from time to time about how the mother is going. my fiance is a very well reserved person, more introverted and i am the opposite. he has patience and I am trying to. i am more outgoing and as my grandmother would say"fiesty". we love the same foods and movies. So i have met my soul mate and want to proceed with our lives. So i hope with the next interview it will go well. In this economy who can afford to keep going through this over and over. I dont want to give Morocco's government all of my income.lol.

[LaL 418]

this whole quoting a previous post + not commenting only to post again with a comment (and no quote) has become an epidemic in this forum! it's like forum cooties or something!

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

What about old and/or ugly and/or not-so-pious Moroccan women? Are they SOL?

Hey Jenn

I was thinking about things reading these posts and I wanted to point something out. Even in the height of getting used for a greencard, there are sunny days. The whole process is heart wrenching because in the middle of manipulating and hurting you, there are moments of light.. moments of bonding. I can honestly say that I would absolutley not have married him if I would have known one tenth of what I know now, not just about him, but about myself and why I was with him to begin with. It was my fault for marrying someone younger, less educated and not knowing enough about his family and how treacherous everyone around him was. Looking back, I think they pushed him into doing this and I do think there were moments when he actually did not feel good about what he was doing to me and those were the times I saw some light in his face

I think getting used for a greencard is soul murder and I do my best to explain to the moroccans and other mena people I meet just how horribly it hurts the Americans

Another thing that drives me crazy is the way that some of the Moroccans I know tell everyone their American ex was an alcholic or some other crazy off the chain thing when most of the women were just older, dumber and naive and terribly in love with these dark dashing con men and their lives shattered when they left them.. Its very dehumanizing to hear some of the bs excuses the guys have for leaving

[princess apple 4]

I read this article too. Her husband was probably ill prepared. Preparation is everything at Casablanca. Attitude is everything. Hope things go better for him the second go round.

[sandinista! 1,816]

^^^ OMG there's another one LaL

Edited March 1, 2011 by sandinista!

[princess apple 4]

so what if they never gave my fiance any papers at the end of his interview. they just gave him abck his passport. never gave him a letter of deniel or anything like others got. was he supose to get something? our lawyer asked me what his letter of deniel stated. he never got one. just handded his passport and told goodbye. can you give me informatioon about how to prepare for our rebuttle?

thanks

so what if they never gave my fiance any papers at the end of his interview. they just gave him abck his passport. never gave him a letter of deniel or anything like others got. was he supose to get something? our lawyer asked me what his letter of deniel stated. he never got one. just handded his passport and told goodbye. can you give me informatioon about how to prepare for our rebuttle?

thanks

[Crossed_fingers 128]

Another uncomfortable reality is looks and attractiveness. I have seen guys leave the older American wife after getting papers and hook up with a hot young russian or hispanic,not arab or Moroccan. I think looks matter alot in the choice of who to be with after. I dont think its always that they dislike the American so much. They might have even grown fond of her in a motherly sort of way but what they were willing to put up with unpapered versus what they want when they have citizenship are very different things. Often they feel like they have outgrown haggard and fat or older and want an upgraded little hottie to show off to other Moroccans and the 15 year older wife is just not cutting it. I dont think its just religion or love of country. I think its like upgrading a car for some of them

I think this goes to Jenn's point about how not everyone can get the hot, smart, young, perfect mate so they have to look elsewhere. Perhaps a scammer couldn't get the hottie to give him a second look back in his home country, but once he gets his papers, he has better options.

A couple of members have posted about generalizations. I wanted to relay the information those women gave to me because they had so much experience with so many Moroccan-American couples offline. I completely respect the point that someone made about how people fill the internet with bad stories but don't usually bother to post the happy endings. I do think that's a good point; however, the experiences of these two women I met, as well as MrsAmera and Hanginginthere, aren't self-selected internet stories...they are observations based on all the couples they've met in person. Those groups could be self-selected, too, especially in the Orlando area which I've heard is unusually rife with fraud, but it still seems like a more random and accurate sampling IMO than internet stories.

Anyway, I have mixed feelings about the advice the two women gave me. Obviously I didn't end up taking it. There's really no two ways about it, they were both generalizing. One essentially told me that if I wasn't going to take her advice and run for the hills, then I should consider dropping my SO after I meet him in person if he's not handsome enough because I should at least have the most fun possible since it was only going to last a few years anyway. The other saw me on my way to meet my SO in person for the first time, and I was a little nervous about how I dressed and whether my hair looked okay and so on, and she said, "Oh, he'll be happy when he sees you. You have no idea what you see waiting outside the consulate. Trust me, he'll be thrilled. You're not bald and you don't have a cane." Those discussions took place almost a year and a half ago and I'm still angry just typing those comments. Yes, I agree that they are completely insulting and generalizing and in very poor taste. However, these women didn't appear to hate Morocco or Moroccans...they actually both encouraged me to study or move there and swore up and down that there were plenty of good, honest Moroccan men out there. They just thought it was impossible that one could be chatting up women in tourist hot spots or on internet sites. Again, I disagree, but even if much of what they said was hurtful and offensive, their conclusions are based on experiences I thought were worth sharing here. As we're discussing whether the consulate abuses its power, I'm just trying to present the conclusions of two American women who know the culture well, lived there for years, and did not personally meet their men on the internet. They're not a clean substitute for a CO, but they do have a vantage point that a lot of us lack here and I thought it might be helpful to see this whole issue from another perspective.

Edited March 1, 2011 by Crossed_fingers

[Nasturtium 500]

I think there is way too much generalizing about Moroccan men though.

This would be the generalization of the typical Moroccan scammer profile. So this would be what is a lot of "red flag" material. That is why it is being mentioned. This is part of viewing things from the CO point of view in order to see how you are possibly perceived.

[Nasturtium 500]

What I was getting at is that even beyond unique personal preferences, which I do agree come into play at times, not everyone is able to land a "10". The same goes everywhere in the world...I mean, even if every guy did want the best looking, most virginal, and most pious woman around, that doesn't mean he has what it takes to get her. People end up settling for what they can get based on what they themselves bring to the table.

This is why many people end up "looking" for mates outside of their own country, because their own qualities carry more leverage. Just browse the RUB forum and you'll see what I mean. The same goes for Moroccan men - an American woman might tend to overlook certain shortcomings that disqualify them from getting a "quality" spouse at home.

This can be true but generally there is a sort of rule and then an exception to a rule from a cultural standpoint. Taboos are culture-specific. So what is taboo for one may not be for another... and not everyone follows norms at any one time. All the same, there are norms and even accepted forms of deviance. For example, goth-wanna-bes are an accepted deviance for our culture-- it's not the norm for our population, but we also don't seek to regulate it as a threat like we do, say, pedophilia. Even more to the point is a direct comparison of marriages of older women to younger men. It happens in both of our cultures, but it is also infrequent to the norm in both of our cultures.

^^^ OMG there's another one LaL

They are like a magic four-leaf clover. Possibly good luck to the first person who discovers them?

[Lisamarie 79]

I understand. I wasn't talking only about this thread, I mean in general:)

This would be the generalization of the typical Moroccan scammer profile. So this would be what is a lot of "red flag" material. That is why it is being mentioned. This is part of viewing things from the CO point of view in order to see how you are possibly perceived.

[KittyPollitt 284]

I understand. I wasn't talking only about this thread, I mean in general:)

I think a lot of us have just gotten really jaded over the years after reading about our fellow VJer's failed relationships. It's really tough to see a woman completely destroyed after being used, and then not have some kind of bitterness about it. We're not the only ones who feel this way, either. Just google the term "Moroccan men" and you'll find a list of horror stories.

[Lisamarie 79]

Oh I've read all kinds of stories on the internet, trust me. If anyone wants an earful, just go to Daniel Pipes' website. If a person wasn't secure in their relationship, they could easily be scared off after reading a few posts on there.

I think a lot of us have just gotten really jaded over the years after reading about our fellow VJer's failed relationships. It's really tough to see a woman completely destroyed after being used, and then not have some kind of bitterness about it. We're not the only ones who feel this way, either. Just google the term "Moroccan men" and you'll find a list of horror stories.

[KittyPollitt 284]

Oh I've read all kinds of stories on the internet, trust me. If anyone wants an earful, just go to Daniel Pipes' website. If a person wasn't secure in their relationship, they could easily be scared off after reading a few posts on there.

I was going to mention Daniel Pipes, but he's pretty inflammatory in the Muslim community. To say the least. But yea, I posted on there myself after getting screwed over by a Moroccan guy online about 6 years ago.