Guns, No Pie

[WARREN-IRINA 1]

I see where Utah is going to name the Browning M1911 their official state gun. I guess state birds, trees, flowers, etc. are all used up so they wanted to start a new category. I wonder how long it will take for other states to adopt their official state gun. The race is on to get your official state gun before some other state nabs it.

The Idea of making the M1911 the Utah state gun is to honor John Moses Browning (January 23, 1855 – November 26, 1926), Ogden Utah born American firearms designer who developed many varieties of firearms, cartridges, and gun mechanisms, many of which are still in use around the world. He is arguably the most important figure in the development of modern automatic and semi-automatic firearms and is credited with 128 gun patents.

Browning influenced nearly all categories of firearms design. He invented or made significant improvements to single-shot rifles, lever-action rifles, and slide-action firearms. His most significant contributions were in the area of autoloading firearms. He developed the first reliable and compact autoloading pistols by inventing the telescoping bolt, integrating the bolt and barrel shroud into what is known as the slide. Browning's telescoping bolt design is now found on nearly every modern semi-automatic pistol, as well as several modern fully automatic weapons.

Browning's most successful designs include the M1911 pistol, the Browning .50 caliber machine gun, the Browning Automatic Rifle, and semi-automatic shotgun, the Browning Auto-5. These arms are nearly identical today to those assembled by Browning in the 1920s, with only minor changes in detail and cosmetics. Nearly all parts may be freely swapped between the earliest and latest of each series of these weapons, no matter when made, which has extended their service lifespan nearly indefinitely.

The original prototype serial no. 1 Colt Commercial Browning 1917 .30 caliber self-loading water-cooled machine gun was stolen from the John M. Browning Museum in Ogden Union Station (during a model train show in the building) on March 2, 1995, and has not been recovered. There is a good reward for the arrest of the culprits and recovery of it.

[WARREN-IRINA 1]

VV Happy belated birthday

I bought a Springfield M1A in .308 (7.62x51) for my birthday in 88. I have kicked my butt ever since that I did not get it in .243. Springfield quit offering the .243, 270and 30.06 shortly after and they are rare and hard to find now. I spotted one on Gun Brokers last week but decided I needed the $1900 to get Irina her worse than the .243.

A friend had a 357 Ruger Blackhawk and a guy ask him if he could shoot it. White had .38's in it and let the guy shoot them. He told him he was reloading it with 357. While he was reloading looked at me and winked. When he had it loaded he handed the 357 to me as I passed him my Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 mag and the guy never noticed until after he pulled the trigger.

I bought the 44 for my birthday in 68 in the PX in Okinawa.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The Idea of making the M1911 the Utah state gun is to honor John Moses Browning (January 23, 1855 – November 26, 1926), Ogden Utah born American firearms designer who developed many varieties of firearms, cartridges, and gun mechanisms, many of which are still in use around the world. He is arguably the most important figure in the development of modern automatic and semi-automatic firearms and is credited with 128 gun patents.

Browning influenced nearly all categories of firearms design. He invented or made significant improvements to single-shot rifles, lever-action rifles, and slide-action firearms. His most significant contributions were in the area of autoloading firearms. He developed the first reliable and compact autoloading pistols by inventing the telescoping bolt, integrating the bolt and barrel shroud into what is known as the slide. Browning's telescoping bolt design is now found on nearly every modern semi-automatic pistol, as well as several modern fully automatic weapons.

Browning's most successful designs include the M1911 pistol, the Browning .50 caliber machine gun, the Browning Automatic Rifle, and semi-automatic shotgun, the Browning Auto-5. These arms are nearly identical today to those assembled by Browning in the 1920s, with only minor changes in detail and cosmetics. Nearly all parts may be freely swapped between the earliest and latest of each series of these weapons, no matter when made, which has extended their service lifespan nearly indefinitely.

The original prototype serial no. 1 Colt Commercial Browning 1917 .30 caliber self-loading water-cooled machine gun was stolen from the John M. Browning Museum in Ogden Union Station (during a model train show in the building) on March 2, 1995, and has not been recovered. There is a good reward for the arrest of the culprits and recovery of it.

I never had a question why they would honor JM Browning. Good choice. I would like to see other states do the same.

For Texas (being a native Texican) I would nominate Samuel Colt, not for the Single Action Army "Peacemaker" that is much more popular in Hollywood than it ever was in Texas (too expensive!) but for the Patterson Revolver which was developed for the Texas market when Texas was struggling to be an independent country, and was the "Colt that started it all"

[1HappyGuy 45]

The Idea of making the M1911 the Utah state gun is to honor John Moses Browning (January 23, 1855 – November 26, 1926), Ogden Utah born American firearms designer who developed many varieties of firearms, cartridges, and gun mechanisms, many of which are still in use around the world. He is arguably the most important figure in the development of modern automatic and semi-automatic firearms and is credited with 128 gun patents.

Browning influenced nearly all categories of firearms design. He invented or made significant improvements to single-shot rifles, lever-action rifles, and slide-action firearms. His most significant contributions were in the area of autoloading firearms. He developed the first reliable and compact autoloading pistols by inventing the telescoping bolt, integrating the bolt and barrel shroud into what is known as the slide. Browning's telescoping bolt design is now found on nearly every modern semi-automatic pistol, as well as several modern fully automatic weapons.

Browning's most successful designs include the M1911 pistol, the Browning .50 caliber machine gun, the Browning Automatic Rifle, and semi-automatic shotgun, the Browning Auto-5. These arms are nearly identical today to those assembled by Browning in the 1920s, with only minor changes in detail and cosmetics. Nearly all parts may be freely swapped between the earliest and latest of each series of these weapons, no matter when made, which has extended their service lifespan nearly indefinitely.

The original prototype serial no. 1 Colt Commercial Browning 1917 .30 caliber self-loading water-cooled machine gun was stolen from the John M. Browning Museum in Ogden Union Station (during a model train show in the building) on March 2, 1995, and has not been recovered. There is a good reward for the arrest of the culprits and recovery of it.

I don't have a problem with Utah honoring J M Browning. His contribution to our history can not be overlooked. But, I did think it was odd to name any gun as the state gun.

[WARREN-IRINA 1]

I question why we need a state gun too. It has only passed the huse committee so far. Some people are going to argue against it just on the principal that it was a Browning FN model 1910 used to kill Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria and his wife that lead to the start of WW1.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I question why we need a state gun too. It has only passed the huse committee so far. Some people are going to argue against it just on the principal that it was a Browning FN model 1910 used to kill Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria and his wife that lead to the start of WW1.

That wouldn't be a good choice for state gun. Unless the state was Serbia.

At any rate, it would take a pretty silly person to argue that the M1911 should not be the state gun because the inventor of that gun also invented another model of gun that was used by a criminal to commit a crime.

It would make more sense to argue that the state should honor the MAN rather than the gun. Besides, Utah was well established before the M1911 was invented and that particular model had little to do with "the State" The guns that JM Browning's FATHER produced were much more influential in the history of Utah, though the son he produced was more influential in the history of the United States and of firearms in general.

[slim 1,525]

I like the idea of a state gun. We have state birds, etc., why not have a state gun?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I like the idea of a state gun. We have state birds, etc., why not have a state gun?

To shoot state birds!

John Browning was certainly one the best firearms inventors, if not THE best.

I think another guy that made huge advances was William Ruger. Though I hesitate to call him an "inventor" so much as an "innovator" I think he took a lot of classic designs, updated the manufacture of them with the most modern techniques and produced quality firearms at reasonable price. Though I am a Winchester collector, I think the Ruger M77 is probably the premier bolt rifle offered. I have only 1 M70 Winchester. I have butt-loads of M77s in various calibers and configurations and they were/are all "using guns". Several have already been passed down to my older sons. A lot of the using guns I have/had were Rugers. I love the Red Label. I have one of the early ones (blued) in 20 ga. with skeet/skeet fixed chokes and it was my dove-quail gun for many years. It also is great for skeet but I always preferred a pump gun for that.

There were very few "bad" Ruger guns. The "Hawkeye" was predictably a loser. A complicated single shot handgun built on a single action frame chambered for a strange cartridge before handguns really caught on for that. Doomed. The .44 carbine was an excellent rifle and should have lasted longer than it did. It is a compact short range deer killer and there is plenty of use for it.

Do you remember the Ruger "X-GI"? It was a mini-14 chambered for .308. They rushed it to market and it had problems. Too bad. The mini-30 came along after that and they never did get the .308 version back to the market.

I don't care for the Ruger double actions or the autoloaders except the .22 Autoloader which is the market king in that nitch. Personal taste, nothing wrong with any of them.

I have 4 of the Number 1s. Great rifles. One is a custom made up for BPCR shooting (for which it is disqualified anyway) and shoots the .45-70. 34" really heavy barrel. I also have a a number 1 in .405 and one an International in 7x57mm Mauser, and a Number 1S in .30-06

If I ran across one in .30-40 I would snatch it up. I switched the forearm on the 1S to the "Alexander Henry" type rather than the long beavertail type.

Ruger was not the inventor Browning was, but he did a lot to promote quality, popular priced guns and kept the competition's feet to the fire. I think the variety of other good guns that we have from other manufacturers are due to Ruger in a big way.

[slim 1,525]

John Browning was certainly one the best firearms inventors, if not THE best.

I think it has to be him or Kalashnikov. When you talk about forming world history, both had a lot to contribute, even still to this day!

The mini-30 came along after that and they never did get the .308 version back to the market.

I like the minis. They're pretty good rifles for the price. Come to think of it, most Rugers are a pretty good value. They're not top of the line anything but they're certainly well worth the price.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I think it has to be him or Kalashnikov. When you talk about forming world history, both had a lot to contribute, even still to this day!

I like the minis. They're pretty good rifles for the price. Come to think of it, most Rugers are a pretty good value. They're not top of the line anything but they're certainly well worth the price.

In terms of being fancy, you are right, and certainly price wise, they are not "top of the line"

However, I seriously have to question that the Red Label is not a top of the line O/U in terms of design and features. The trunions instead of an underpin make the receiver very small. I can literally close my thumb and forefinger around the receiver of the 20 guage, THAT's compact! The locking method is tops! Very strong. Sure, Berettas and Perazzis cost more and have more foo-fa-rah engraving, inlays and such but they don't shot any better and the design is inferior to the Ruger (mechanically speaking)

Likewise the M77 bolt rifle. It has all the great features of the M98 in a modern manufactured receiver, a gorgeous design of stock (I could be biased)and the angled bedding bolt that draws the receiver down and back firmly in the stock. The ones I have fired have been the most accurate out-of-the-box bolt rifles I ever tried.

Rugers are, IMHO, top of the line in functionality, design and strength. Even though I do not personally care for some of them, I cannot say they are not good guns. I have often said if you bought 1 of every gun Ruger offered, you would be about as well equipped as anyone could imagine (and you would have a lot of guns!)

[slim 1,525]

Rugers are, IMHO, top of the line in functionality, design and strength. Even though I do not personally care for some of them, I cannot say they are not good guns. I have often said if you bought 1 of every gun Ruger offered, you would be about as well equipped as anyone could imagine (and you would have a lot of guns!)

I've long recommended Ruger to first time shooters. Great value for those just getting into shooting.

[visaveteran 1]

The only gun I've sold due to dissatisfaction was a Ruger SP101 snub-nose. Too heavy, lousy trigger, only 5 rounds, no hammer spur, boring rubber grips...and I just never became "one" with that gun. I made a mistake buying it after reading a positive article in a gun magazine. I guess those reviewers are sometimes just shills for the company. But the SP101 has been around a long time and continues to sell as an option over S&W and other revolver makers. Probably price is a big reason. And the Ruger name has been around a long time and that still carries some weight in the gun world.

Anyway, I got very lucky with the holster I bought for that Ruger; it was the Galco Concealable belt holster. I liked that holster a lot. Well, I just found out that holster is the same one they sell for the gun I just bought--the legendary Colt Detective Special snub-nose. I just saved myself $100 which is what Galco sells it for now. When I bought mine years ago it sold for $69. Anyway, I pulled it out and it's like new. I tried a few times to sell the holster but no takers, so I just packed it away and forgot about it. Now I'm very happy I still have it. It will be a sweet concealment carry rig...holds the gun tight to the body and just feels good to wear it.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The only gun I've sold due to dissatisfaction was a Ruger SP101 snub-nose. Too heavy, lousy trigger, only 5 rounds, no hammer spur, boring rubber grips...and I just never became "one" with that gun. I made a mistake buying it after reading a positive article in a gun magazine. I guess those reviewers are sometimes just shills for the company. But the SP101 has been around a long time and continues to sell as an option over S&W and other revolver makers. Probably price is a big reason. And the Ruger name has been around a long time and that still carries some weight in the gun world.

Anyway, I got very lucky with the holster I bought for that Ruger; it was the Galco Concealable belt holster. I liked that holster a lot. Well, I just found out that holster is the same one they sell for the gun I just bought--the legendary Colt Detective Special snub-nose. I just saved myself $100 which is what Galco sells it for now. When I bought mine years ago it sold for $69. Anyway, I pulled it out and it's like new. I tried a few times to sell the holster but no takers, so I just packed it away and forgot about it. Now I'm very happy I still have it. It will be a sweet concealment carry rig...holds the gun tight to the body and just feels good to wear it.

Galco is top notch stuff and it is all I carry. I like the pancake type belt holsters, open bottom, friction fit, no straps or BS. They conceal very well even under a T-shirt. I also have one of their SOB (small of back) holsters for the M1911. It is OK, better under a parka, but uncomfortable for driving.

Good review of the SP101. I never bought one of the Ruger DAs because they really don't interest me. Good to hear a first hand account.

Edited February 2, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[slim 1,525]

The only gun I've sold due to dissatisfaction

I offloaded a Remington 597 about a year ago. It was absolute #######.

Galco is top notch stuff and it is all I carry.

I prefer kydex custom fits for the reasons you listed with Galco. No straps or any of that BS and a good, custom fit.

(small of back) holsters for the M1911. It is OK, better under a parka, but uncomfortable for driving.

Small of back is horrible! If you're going to stand up all day long I guess it's not that bad but the minute you brush up against something or sit down, it sucks! I prefer a shoulder rig (if jacketed, and/or carrying heavy) or inside my waistband at 4:00 O'clock. I've always imagined that IWB 4 would be great for "let me get my wallet."

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I offloaded a Remington 597 about a year ago. It was absolute #######.

I prefer kydex custom fits for the reasons you listed with Galco. No straps or any of that BS and a good, custom fit.

Small of back is horrible! If you're going to stand up all day long I guess it's not that bad but the minute you brush up against something or sit down, it sucks! I prefer a shoulder rig (if jacketed, and/or carrying heavy) or inside my waistband at 4:00 O'clock. I've always imagined that IWB 4 would be great for "let me get my wallet."

I heard the Rem 597 was junk and it didn't last long. The only .22 semi autos I have are Rugers. I bought one of those crazy colored laminated stocks (red/white/blue) and fixed one up with that and a red dot sight. The kids loved it! That was the "go-to" gun for fun shooting. It looks gaudy and stupid as all get out, but it encouraged the kids to shoot, so why not?