The hoping not to be denied at Casablanca thread

[zaytoona 8]

Hi Everyone,

I know if my husband reads this he will get mad. He really tries to discourage me from posting on VJ for reasons of this very topic. He feels that most of the couples on here (most, not all ) are not involved in valid relationships and I can understand why. In my opinion, there are classic red flags:

Huge age differences-Most MENA men don't marry women that are older than them

Proposal online, especially within a short time

Women that have been divorced and or have children already-Most MENA men don't marry women who have been married or whom already have children

MENA Citizen comes from a family with very little income and assets

MENA men who know very little English

MENA men who have a history of chatting with other female Americans online

Another thing you should look at is this: If my MENA CO was born and raised in America, would he still be interested in me and would we be a good match?

As much as we American women FEEL that we can read whether a MENA man is a good apple or not, we really cannot. In order for us to do this, it will take time. Going to visit a MENA country for 2 weeks will not give you the exposure you need. It just will not. It will take time, lots of it. For example, although my husband feels that he can read people here in LA, he really cannot. I was born and raised in Los Angeles and I know the city like the back of my hand. He knows Morocco and he knows the citizens there and he will know if a man is trying to fool an American woman. Shoot, he could have even fooled me! That's why we took extra time before deciding to take this step.

As a couple, we are both learning so much about each other. We are finding things about one another that we never knew before and we have known each other for over 2 years.

What helped our case:

*Close age difference: He is exactly (to the day) 7 years older than me- Very common for MENA men to marry younger women.

*We have both never been married.

*We both do not have children.

*He's English is very good-We can communicate very well.

*He comes from an upper middle class, educated family- Mys husband had no financial motivation to come to the US

*He didn't propose online and my first trip to Morocco was after 5 months of daily communication. I was already in Turkey and Egypt for 7 weeks before going to Morocco to see my SO.

*I stayed in Morocco for 6 weeks my first trip and he didn't actually propose, we both decided we would get married so it was mutual

*I went back to Morocco after 9 months for 2 weeks and only then we decided to file for the K-1. prior to that, I had plans to move to Morocco. I decided for him to come to me instead after all because I wanted to finish school.

*Passionate during interview: He answered all the CO's questions with natural passion and with confidence. My husband told me this "When I told them why I love you, I said it with all my heart and she could see it in my eyes and with full emotion." You know, no matter how much proof you give, the actual interview itself can show a lot.

Well, I hope this helps!

Zaytoona

[Crossed_fingers 128]

Is this equally for both men and women?

I really am curious since this is the second post today about money....why would it matter so much?

Do you mean this under any circumstances?

Am also curious about something else since money seems to be an issue...... has anyone gotten or plan to get a pre-nup prior to marriage?

I would suggest thinking hard about the relationship whether it were a man or woman asking the USC for money. As to why it matters so much, I think it's one of the reddest of the red flags, especially in MENA relationships (male beneficiary, female USC) where the man is culturally expected and religiously required to be the provider. However, I do think the circumstances matter and I don't presume to know anyone's individual circumstances or relationship or SO better than they do! Using a MENA man as an example, maybe he's not a practicing Muslim, maybe he comes from a family where he is accustomed to seeing women support their men, maybe he is desperately poor and has zero options for handling a financial emergency, maybe he has every good intention of paying the USC back or supporting her once he's a resident and working here. There are a lot of "maybes" there but stranger things have happened....I can't speak to any particular situation, but generally speaking I think requests for money are more often than not bad news, so that's why I'd suggest thinking about the relationship. I'm not saying run for the hills because it MUST be fraud....I'm just suggesting, in my opinion (which is really worth nothing ) to take a hard look at the relationship if money becomes an issue.

As for a pre-nup, I figured since we'll be doing a Muslim marriage contract we'd probably have some financial provisions either in the nikkah or in a separate legal document. I'm so broke at the moment it probably doesn't matter one way or another, though.

[msheesha 548]

I agree with much of Zaytoona's post.

I have also wondered if the CO's take the reverse into account - if they consider whether the USC would be with the Moroccan (in the same level of socioeconomic status, etc) if they were here in America. For example, it's often amazed me in cases where the USC female has gone to Morocco and paid for everything - rental cars, hotels or rental apartments, meals, and on and on and on - because the Moroccan man does not have the money. I've wondered why on earth they've flown across the world for this. If they were in a relationship with a man here would they be content paying for everything? And, so it's crossed my mind whether or not the CO takes something like that into account.

Also have wondered how much religious differences or similarities are considered by the CO.

Any thoughts?

[Crossed_fingers 128]

Another thing you should look at is this: If my MENA CO was born and raised in America, would he still be interested in me and would we be a good match?

I agreed with pretty much your entire post, especially this part. Obviously nothing is full-proof and there are always exceptions in both directions but I think that's a great starting point or rule of thumb.

[msheesha 548]

Monica,

How are you doing? I know you were hoping to get back to Morocco and get married. How are you doing with the change of plans?

[Always+Forever 7]

Monica,

How are you doing? I know you were hoping to get back to Morocco and get married. How are you doing with the change of plans?

We are up in the air right now...i have no clue what we should. From what ppl on this topic r saying, it looks like the odds of reaffirmation are pretty much impossible So that would bring us to 3 options: wait and see what happens with this one, refile the K1, or marry & do the CR1. But with either option, I'm still wondering how do I find out the reason for the denial, because, from what i've read, the 1st denial will come up any route we take. I've read the pinned link about 221(g), but i think i just got more confused...lol

Thanks to everyone for all the support.

Monica

[msheesha 548]

Monica,

You might try pm'ing Kiyah. From what I've heard, she has done the most research on returned petitions. You might try emailing the consulate and asking them to outline the CO's specific concerns and reasons for returning the petition. Possibly say you're planning to continue on in the process and you need to be able to address their specific concerns. Or ask your senator's immigration person to do that. Either way, you could try pm'ing Kiyah to get her thoughts.

Many people have posted about MENA men typically not being interested in women who have children from previous relationships/marriages. Do you think that's something that the CO saw as a red flag, and if so, did your fiance address why this wasn't an issue for him?

[Crossed_fingers 128]

I agree with much of Zaytoona's post.

I have also wondered if the CO's take the reverse into account - if they consider whether the USC would be with the Moroccan (in the same level of socioeconomic status, etc) if they were here in America. For example, it's often amazed me in cases where the USC female has gone to Morocco and paid for everything - rental cars, hotels or rental apartments, meals, and on and on and on - because the Moroccan man does not have the money. I've wondered why on earth they've flown across the world for this. If they were in a relationship with a man here would they be content paying for everything? And, so it's crossed my mind whether or not the CO takes something like that into account.

Also have wondered how much religious differences or similarities are considered by the CO.

Any thoughts?

I wonder if the CO knows the woman paid for everything while in Morocco. I can't imagine it would help the couple's case if Casa found that out, since it goes so strongly against cultural norms. I think I read somewhere a long time ago that CO's will look at differences in education and income and social status but I don't remember for sure. I can't see why they wouldn't. It begs the question what the couple has in common, although I'd hope Casa would give them an opportunity to respond to that concern and show what common interests they have in spite of it.

I am also curious about the religious differences and similarities. I assume if the USC was Muslim long before meeting the Moroccan that would help their case, but I don't know if they look at recent converts and non-Muslims any differently. I'd also be interested in hearing others' opinions on that.

[tenderheartusa79 14]

We are up in the air right now...i have no clue what we should. From what ppl on this topic r saying, it looks like the odds of reaffirmation are pretty much impossible So that would bring us to 3 options: wait and see what happens with this one, refile the K1, or marry & do the CR1. But with either option, I'm still wondering how do I find out the reason for the denial, because, from what i've read, the 1st denial will come up any route we take. I've read the pinned link about 221(g), but i think i just got more confused...lol

Thanks to everyone for all the support.

Monica

Well Im so sorry to hear about what you had went through .My thoughts to you is cancel the K1 visa and get married and apply for CR1.It might take so long time till you will hear from USCIS .And i guess they will let it til its expire .

Good luck and my best wishes for ya .

[Always+Forever 7]

Monica,

You might try pm'ing Kiyah. From what I've heard, she has done the most research on returned petitions. You might try emailing the consulate and asking them to outline the CO's specific concerns and reasons for returning the petition. Possibly say you're planning to continue on in the process and you need to be able to address their specific concerns. Or ask your senator's immigration person to do that. Either way, you could try pm'ing Kiyah to get her thoughts.

Many people have posted about MENA men typically not being interested in women who have children from previous relationships/marriages. Do you think that's something that the CO saw as a red flag, and if so, did your fiance address why this wasn't an issue for him?

Hicham has tons of pics with him & his family with my daughter that were never looked at, and the only thing they asked about her was how old she is...so I don't know if they saw it as an issue...if they did, they didn't ask about it. And I've called & emailed the embassy to find out the reason and I was told they can't that info out by email or the phone, that I had to wait till it got to USCIS...ugg And I will remind my Senator's office about checking on the refusal reason.

[KittyPollitt 284]

I agree with much of Zaytoona's post.

I have also wondered if the CO's take the reverse into account - if they consider whether the USC would be with the Moroccan (in the same level of socioeconomic status, etc) if they were here in America.

Any thoughts?

you made me think back to my more recent relationships in America- my ex husband, the out of status Nepali pizza delivery guy, the Moroccan Wal Mart employee, the Moroccan autoclave operator who has a daughter with a girl he met in a club when she was 17... LOL I think I'm moving up in the world with this one!!

[zaytoona 8]

Another thing you should look at is this: If my MENA CO was born and raised in America, would he still be interested in me and would we be a good match?

Zaytoona

I mean to say "SO" not "CO"

Another thing you should look at is this: If my MENA SO was born and raised in America, would he still be interested in me and would we be a good match?

I don't know how to edit!

[Always+Forever 7]

I mean to say "SO" not "CO"

Another thing you should look at is this: If my MENA SO was born and raised in America, would he still be interested in me and would we be a good match?

I don't know how to edit!

I think u can only edit right after u post And the edit button is at the bottom of your post.

Monica

[Always+Forever 7]

Poll on Cases returned to USCIS

Thanks to anybody who can add to the poll.

Monica

[Staashi 371]

I mean to say "SO" not "CO"

Another thing you should look at is this: If my MENA SO was born and raised in America, would he still be interested in me and would we be a good match?

I don't know how to edit!

Amen! This is totally my take on it - if you can't find a man in your own backyard what makes you think that you're sooooooo f'ing fabulous to someone 7,000 miles away. I swear, a greencard can give someone 3am love goggles. Just sayin'.