The hoping not to be denied at Casablanca thread

[KittyPollitt 284]

Yes, I understand that any information can be misinterpreted....either here or the information that we give them, that's why I was saying that its good for us to try to explain to them what we mean, that way we don't get misinterpreted. Anything can be read in to just about any statement....I think it's our & especially our SOs jobs to make sure that the CO understands correctly the information provided to them. And if I remember right (i may be wrong) most of what I have posted is related to what the CO has said to us & trying to get more information to be able to handle the situation correctly. And I greatly appreciate those that have been helpful & supportive. I'm sharing so that others can learn from our experience & hopefully not make some of the same mistakes that we did.

Monica

You're right, you've never been too harsh about them.. It was me who said I was feeling bitter toward them after all the denials lately.. But I think my bitterness is a manifestation of my absolute dread and terror at what should be a momentous occasion for my little family- the opportunity for us to live together in my home country. Instead they make reuniting families a secondary focus to singlehandedly attempting to curb marriage immigration fraud. I understand they have a difficult job, rooting through liar after liar, but they shouldn't begin by assuming that every man who walks through the door is a liar. Liars are easy enough for ME to spot, and these people are highly trained to do it, so why the pre judgements that they seem to exhibit?

Anyway, once again :ot2: Tried to pick up translations today, but he procrastinated about leaving, so they were closed when he arrived.. less than 2 weeks left now..

[Always+Forever 7]

The joys of the mentallity of doing it later...we have time...no worries u know what i'm talkin about!! 2 weeks...wow...time is flying!!! Hoping to hear ANYTHING on our case tomorrow. From what I understand...if it leaves Casa, we don't really have a chance, since California just lets them expire (if i'm wrong here someone PLEASE correct me) So I will be heading back to get married & start all over again...what's another yr compared to a lifetime...doesn't sound good when i write it either. Tomorrow will tell & Hopefully u guys will get all your papers Squeaky so no more havin to wrry about it Just tell him...u don't do it, u're locked out...hehehe

Monica

[Miss smarty pants 84]

You're right, you've never been too harsh about them.. It was me who said I was feeling bitter toward them after all the denials lately.. But I think my bitterness is a manifestation of my absolute dread and terror at what should be a momentous occasion for my little family- the opportunity for us to live together in my home country. Instead they make reuniting families a secondary focus to singlehandedly attempting to curb marriage immigration fraud. I understand they have a difficult job, rooting through liar after liar, but they shouldn't begin by assuming that every man who walks through the door is a liar. Liars are easy enough for ME to spot, and these people are highly trained to do it, so why the pre judgements that they seem to exhibit?

Anyway, once again :ot2: Tried to pick up translations today, but he procrastinated about leaving, so they were closed when he arrived.. less than 2 weeks left now..

Best wishes for you.

[KittyPollitt 284]

Best wishes for you.

Thank you so much.. I hope things are ok for you, you're in my prayers (F)

[Crossed_fingers 128]

I know I've ranted about this before, but this whole issue just makes me wonder again how much fraud the consulate actually sees. How much they deny outright, and how much makes it to the US and then disappears at the POE or 2 years and 2 weeks from the wedding date or a week after the naturalization ceremony. And of the frauds that are still making it through, are there any patterns that actually predict it? I think Monica's recent denial is somewhat "against type" for the classic profile that is supposed to make up red flags. Maybe Casa looked at the complaints they were getting from women whose husbands left them in the US and decided it wasn't just age differences or English fluency that predicted fraud. I guess what I'm saying is it seems like Casa is working on an assumption that there is 100% fraud, or near 100% fraud, and that it cuts against all possible attempts at profiling beyond that she is American and he is Muslim. Yet I suspect the percentage of actual fraud, at least among the couples who made it to the US, is considerably lower. I'm pretty sure there are a fair number of successful long-term couples on this site, or who used to be on this site. I've met others in real life. Clearly the fact is that there is not 100% fraud, or else I wouldn't be able to point to any lasting American woman-Moroccan man couples. It just makes me wonder what Casa is using to base its decisions on, and what it's trying to protect the women or the country from.

[Crossed_fingers 128]

I know I've ranted about this before, but this whole issue just makes me wonder again how much fraud the consulate actually sees. How much they deny outright, and how much makes it to the US and then disappears at the POE or 2 years and 2 weeks from the wedding date or a week after the naturalization ceremony. And of the frauds that are still making it through, are there any patterns that actually predict it? I think Monica's recent denial is somewhat "against type" for the classic profile that is supposed to make up red flags. Maybe Casa looked at the complaints they were getting from women whose husbands left them in the US and decided it wasn't just age differences or English fluency that predicted fraud. I guess what I'm saying is it seems like Casa is working on an assumption that there is 100% fraud, or near 100% fraud, and that it cuts against all possible attempts at profiling beyond that she is American and he is Muslim. Yet I suspect the percentage of actual fraud, at least among the couples who made it to the US, is considerably lower. I'm pretty sure there are a fair number of successful long-term couples on this site, or who used to be on this site. I've met others in real life. Clearly the fact is that there is not 100% fraud, or else I wouldn't be able to point to any lasting American woman-Moroccan man couples. It just makes me wonder what Casa is using to base its decisions on, and what it's trying to protect the women or the country from.

Sorry, was distracted when I wrote that. I meant "profiling that she is American and he is MOROCCAN" not Muslim.

[venusfire503 54]

I didn't get the chance to read all of this thread, but something I saw made me wonder - is it possible for those whose marriages have lasted to contact someone to let them know there ARE successes? I'll never forget the ###### he (we) went through when he first got here (PHL) - all the grilling, and then the lady called me into the office to tell me that she 'hoped' I wouldn't go there in two years crying about how he left me. That was in addition to telling me that I didn't have to marry him - I could send him home without getting into trouble, but if I 'had' to marry him, to wait until the last minute to have time to change my mind. How Moroccan men were notorious for finding "women like us" (older, overweight, unattractive, but with some money - yes, she really said that. I'd like to see ANYONE look good after spending two days in the airport, waiting for a flight, by the way), marrying them, getting them pregnant, beating them up, taking their money, and then running off. I'm not saying we've had the longest marriage or anything, but we're almost at 3-1/2 years, things are even better than before, and he's had his 10 year card for a while now. And with all the outside-of-the-relationship problems we're having (my ex, financial issues, things I don't want to post online, etc), most people we know are amazed that he's staying with me through it all. They all agree "he must REALLY love you". Ok - I'm impressed too - I know he loves me, but ....GEEZ .... (I'm really happy about it, though!)

Anyway, I wish all of you the best of luck. And if anyone really does know a way to let them know over there that there are successful, non-fraud marriages (since it sounds like they don't think there are) between American women and Moroccan men - please let us know! We'd love to help out.

venusfire

[venusfire503 54]

Sorry, was distracted when I wrote that. I meant "profiling that she is American and he is MOROCCAN" not Muslim.

Crossed_fingers - don't worry about it. If you think about it, like 99% of the time, it's both!

venusfire

[moroccogirlny 100]

Sorry, was distracted when I wrote that. I meant "profiling that she is American and he is MOROCCAN" not Muslim.

It goes the other way around too...many Moroccan women marry American men and come to the USA and just vanish from their husbands. My Senator had seen many cases like that.

[moroccogirlny 100]

I didn't get the chance to read all of this thread, but something I saw made me wonder - is it possible for those whose marriages have lasted to contact someone to let them know there ARE successes? I'll never forget the ###### he (we) went through when he first got here (PHL) - all the grilling, and then the lady called me into the office to tell me that she 'hoped' I wouldn't go there in two years crying about how he left me. That was in addition to telling me that I didn't have to marry him - I could send him home without getting into trouble, but if I 'had' to marry him, to wait until the last minute to have time to change my mind. How Moroccan men were notorious for finding "women like us" (older, overweight, unattractive, but with some money - yes, she really said that. I'd like to see ANYONE look good after spending two days in the airport, waiting for a flight, by the way), marrying them, getting them pregnant, beating them up, taking their money, and then running off. I'm not saying we've had the longest marriage or anything, but we're almost at 3-1/2 years, things are even better than before, and he's had his 10 year card for a while now. And with all the outside-of-the-relationship problems we're having (my ex, financial issues, things I don't want to post online, etc), most people we know are amazed that he's staying with me through it all. They all agree "he must REALLY love you". Ok - I'm impressed too - I know he loves me, but ....GEEZ .... (I'm really happy about it, though!)

Anyway, I wish all of you the best of luck. And if anyone really does know a way to let them know over there that there are successful, non-fraud marriages (since it sounds like they don't think there are) between American women and Moroccan men - please let us know! We'd love to help out.

venusfire

This is what they have on their website at Casa:

Internet Romance and Marriage Fraud

Many Americans befriend Moroccans through Internet dating and social networking sites and these relationships often to lead marriage, or engagement. While many of the marriages between Americans and Moroccans are successful, the U.S. Consulate General in Casablanca warns against marriage fraud. It is not uncommon for foreign nationals to enter into marriages with Americans solely for immigration purposes. Relationships developed via correspondence, particularly those begun on the Internet, are especially susceptible to manipulation. Often, the marriages end in divorce in the United States when the foreign national acquires legal permanent residence (“green card”) or U.S. citizenship. In some cases, the new American or permanent resident then remarries a wife he divorced before, around the same time as entering into a relationship with a sponsoring American citizen.

Some of the signs that an Internet contact may be developing a relationship with an American in order to obtain an immigrant visa through marriage are:

• Declarations of love within days or weeks of the initial contact;

• Proposals or discussions of marriage soon after initial contact;

• Requests to the American to visit the foreign national’s home country soon after the declaration of love or proposal;

• Responses to messages from the American friend are along the lines “I love you/Sorry I missed your call,” or similarly one-sided conversations;

• Once engaged, married, or an immigrant visa petition is filed, suddenly starts missing scheduled appointments to chat or call.

While chat rooms, dating and social networking sites are great ways to make friends across international borders, the U.S. government urges Americans who meet foreign nationals on the Internet to take the time necessary to get to know them well before considering marriage keep in mind the signs noted above. Entering into a marriage contract for the principal purpose of facilitating immigration to the United States for an alien is against U.S. law and can result in serious penalties, including fines and imprisonment for the American citizen and the foreign national involved.

[Crossed_fingers 128]

Venusfire, I'm glad to hear that your husband has been there for you through some challenges and that your marriage is going strong. I wish you both continued success and happiness.

MoroccogirlNY, that's a good point about the American men/Moroccan women. It seems like they might have an easier time at the consulate, for some reason, although from what anecdotes I've seen on the internet it certainly doesn't seem like they are immune to fraud by any stretch.

I'm troubled by the fact that recent reports of how interviews are going suggest that the vast majority of couples (not just the ones on VJ) are denied. I think the last 2 or 3 write-ups I've read on here about what a member's SO observed during the interview have said that nearly everyone else interviewing that day for a spouse or fiance visa was denied. The sample size is small so maybe there are other days that we don't know anything about where nearly everyone is approved, although I doubt it. But if Casablanca is denying, say, 50% or 75% or even 90% or more of the couples, it really makes me question if the rate of fraud is anywhere near that high. Again, I'm sure it exists, and I'm sure it exists in high numbers. But I suspect that Casa is denying a higher number out of some misguided theory that taking away a year or two of a couple's life together by forcing them to fight a denial will somehow help them ferret out the truth (which seems like nonsense to me anyway, given that I see no reason why a fraudulent but determined couple would give up...it's not like a denied scammer is going to have an easier time trying again with ANOTHER American).

Personally, I think a more effective way to combat fraud would be for the Americans to educate themselves, contemplate red flags and warning signs, do whatever test or investigation they need to do to ensure themselves their SO is real, and so on. I'd rather see the consulate give out a pamphlet than a rejection and let me make my own mistakes. But that's just me.

[bahisgirl 11]

Personally, I think a more effective way to combat fraud would be for the Americans to educate themselves, contemplate red flags and warning signs, do whatever test or investigation they need to do to ensure themselves their SO is real, and so on. I'd rather see the consulate give out a pamphlet than a rejection and let me make my own mistakes. But that's just me.

I agree 100%...I would like to think I am smart enough to make my own mistakes I too can appreciate what they "think" they are protecting us from, but let's face it, I have had my heart broken by some lousy American men and I am willing to take a chance on a wonderful guy who happens to be Moroccan.

Jackie

[msheesha 548]

Venusfire, I'm glad to hear that your husband has been there for you through some challenges and that your marriage is going strong. I wish you both continued success and happiness.

MoroccogirlNY, that's a good point about the American men/Moroccan women. It seems like they might have an easier time at the consulate, for some reason, although from what anecdotes I've seen on the internet it certainly doesn't seem like they are immune to fraud by any stretch.

I'm troubled by the fact that recent reports of how interviews are going suggest that the vast majority of couples (not just the ones on VJ) are denied. I think the last 2 or 3 write-ups I've read on here about what a member's SO observed during the interview have said that nearly everyone else interviewing that day for a spouse or fiance visa was denied. The sample size is small so maybe there are other days that we don't know anything about where nearly everyone is approved, although I doubt it. But if Casablanca is denying, say, 50% or 75% or even 90% or more of the couples, it really makes me question if the rate of fraud is anywhere near that high. Again, I'm sure it exists, and I'm sure it exists in high numbers. But I suspect that Casa is denying a higher number out of some misguided theory that taking away a year or two of a couple's life together by forcing them to fight a denial will somehow help them ferret out the truth (which seems like nonsense to me anyway, given that I see no reason why a fraudulent but determined couple would give up...it's not like a denied scammer is going to have an easier time trying again with ANOTHER American).

Personally, I think a more effective way to combat fraud would be for the Americans to educate themselves, contemplate red flags and warning signs, do whatever test or investigation they need to do to ensure themselves their SO is real, and so on. I'd rather see the consulate give out a pamphlet than a rejection and let me make my own mistakes. But that's just me.

In some cases, however, it does work - as evidenced by Norielorie's posting. Her K1 in Morocco was denied less than a year ago and she's asking now about the consulate in Egypt. As I said before, lots of uproar about the injustice of the denial, and here it is less than a year later and onto Egypt. Sometimes, they get the denials right.

[Staashi 371]

Venusfire, I'm glad to hear that your husband has been there for you through some challenges and that your marriage is going strong. I wish you both continued success and happiness.

MoroccogirlNY, that's a good point about the American men/Moroccan women. It seems like they might have an easier time at the consulate, for some reason, although from what anecdotes I've seen on the internet it certainly doesn't seem like they are immune to fraud by any stretch.

I'm troubled by the fact that recent reports of how interviews are going suggest that the vast majority of couples (not just the ones on VJ) are denied. I think the last 2 or 3 write-ups I've read on here about what a member's SO observed during the interview have said that nearly everyone else interviewing that day for a spouse or fiance visa was denied. The sample size is small so maybe there are other days that we don't know anything about where nearly everyone is approved, although I doubt it. But if Casablanca is denying, say, 50% or 75% or even 90% or more of the couples, it really makes me question if the rate of fraud is anywhere near that high. Again, I'm sure it exists, and I'm sure it exists in high numbers. But I suspect that Casa is denying a higher number out of some misguided theory that taking away a year or two of a couple's life together by forcing them to fight a denial will somehow help them ferret out the truth (which seems like nonsense to me anyway, given that I see no reason why a fraudulent but determined couple would give up...it's not like a denied scammer is going to have an easier time trying again with ANOTHER American).

Personally, I think a more effective way to combat fraud would be for the Americans to educate themselves, contemplate red flags and warning signs, do whatever test or investigation they need to do to ensure themselves their SO is real, and so on. I'd rather see the consulate give out a pamphlet than a rejection and let me make my own mistakes. But that's just me.

Actually, sister, they try to do this...that is why they post that information on their website. But how many women truly listen? So many women just say - oh, no, not my man - "He loves me - loves my fat - loves my kids - doesn't mind that I've been married and around the block a few times - loves that I'm a Christian but I'll convert for him - loves that I'm independent" blah, blah, blah. Girl, please - they've seen it all...but what they've seen, too, is that many men are sooooo fvcking desperate to get the hell out of Morocco that they'll do whatever it takes to blow that popsicle stand. That they'll ride that rollercoaster so they can have a better life.

I don't know what is up with Casa because yes they seem to be denying in inordinate amount of cases lately, but somehow I believe that means they've been seeing some serious, serious fraud situations as well. Things do go hand in hand. I have a feeling that if they could tell some of these women to their face that they're blind as a bat, they would. But obviously, and it has happened before in MENA interviews, that when a consular officer told some women about their husband's/fiance's lies such as concurrent marriages, undeclared children, multiple visa filings, these women didn't do anything and just continued with the relationship. Desperation at its finest!!!

There are many people who have come through Casa and other MENA countries and they are happily married (and I say happily with a grain of salt because immigration marriages are tough) but for the most part things are moving along well. But, there are also quite a few who have had the greencard monster rear his ugly head. Just sayin'.

[msheesha 548]

I agree 100%...I would like to think I am smart enough to make my own mistakes I too can appreciate what they "think" they are protecting us from, but let's face it, I have had my heart broken by some lousy American men and I am willing to take a chance on a wonderful guy who happens to be Moroccan.

Jackie

At the risk of coming across as a cheerleader for the consulate, it's deeper than just us making our own mistakes (or not). It's about the CO's having the job of not letting people into the country that they feel are getting in through illegal means. It doesn't just impact us as individuals when scammers are allowed in. Who wants another liar, cheater, scammer around in the country?!