More than a million (illegal) immigrants land U.S. jobs

[peejay 327]

The Cherokee had a conference on the 4th July 1610 and came to the same conclusion - so it has merit

In case you miss the obvious...which is...the Cherokee had the testicular fortitude, but was in no position to stem the tide. I dare say we are in a position to stem the tide, but your typical brainwashed American lacks the cojones.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

In case you miss the obvious...which is...the Cherokee had the testicular fortitude,...

Not enough, evidently, to keep from being force-marched to the west of the Mississippi. Cherokee were one of the first "civilized" Indian Nations, not that it helped them against the maniacal founder of the Jackass Party.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

The Cherokee had a conference on the 4th July 1610 and came to the same conclusion - so it has merit

Cite, please.

The Battle of Klushino (Kłuszyn) was fought on July 4,1610, between forces of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Russia.

Edited January 22, 2011 by Some Old Guy

[one...two...tree 2,762]

New Report Draws Direct Link Between Immigration and Unemployment for American Workers

by Ira Mehlman

You're quoting the Media Director of FAIR? You've got to fvckin be kidding me.

Mehlman rarely lets facts get in the way of his analysis: He blames immigrants for the health care crisis, “destroying middle class jobs” and is always quick to claim that most Americans share his point of view. His sweeping, distorted accusations against immigrants serve FAIR’s agenda of demonizing immigrants and his widely publicized opinions are clearly meant to increase animosity.

Mehlman’s fear-mongering “expertise” still gets plenty of media coverage, but his deceitful attempts to help fabricate a diverse coalition of anti-immigrant front groups to follow FAIR’s monochromatic leadership have proven to be an embarrassing flop. Although Choose Black America, You Don’t Speak for Me! and Coalition for the Future of the American Worker posed as groups representing African-American, Latino and labor communities, respectively, their flimsy cover was blown when it was discovered that all shared the same spokesperson - Ira Mehlman. Undeterred, Mehlman continues to spread his message of intolerance.

[Pooky 3,827]

You're quoting the Media Director of FAIR? You've got to fvckin be kidding me.

Why not argue the message, instead of attacking the messenger?

[peejay 327]

Not enough, evidently, to keep from being force-marched to the west of the Mississippi. Cherokee were one of the first "civilized" Indian Nations, not that it helped them against the maniacal founder of the Jackass Party.

Another point to be made....why do liberals repeatedly and incessantly try to use 18th and 19th century American Indian policy as some sort of valid reason to perpetuate stupid and illogical immigration policies into the 21st century? Of course liberals are wracked with white guilt and self loathing, but enough already. This is the 21st century! The American frontier era has long since passed. Get over your guilt and get up to speed with modern American reality.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Another point to be made....why do liberals repeatedly and incessantly try to use 18th and 19th century American Indian policy as some sort of valid reason to perpetuate stupid and illogical immigration policies into the 21st century? Of course liberals are wracked with white guilt and self loathing, but enough already. This is the 21st century! The American frontier era has long since passed. Get over your guilt and get up to speed with modern American reality.

Really?

[peejay 327]

Really?

So...what does that little ditty have to do with 21st century US immigration policy?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

You are going to start arguing relevance in the 68th post of a thread?

[Pooky 3,827]

You are going to start arguing relevance in the 68th post of a thread?

There's a first time for everything.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I would like for everyone to think about a few things. we are in a recession and the government is looking for ways to help people get jobs, encourage businesses to hire people, reduce unemployment. Right? So lets say that that congress proposes some TEMPORARY changes to reduce costs or hiring people and encourage employers to hire more people. Just humor me, OK?

So in order to reduce the costs of hring employees. Congress proposes to temporarily...

1. Suspend the minimum wage. Just pay people whatever they will work for.

2. Suspend tax withholding

3. Suspend Social Security and Medicare.

4. Suspend OSHA

5. Suspend equal opportunity laws

6. Suspend laws relating to sexual harrassment

7. Suspend all benefits or any kind, retirement plans, 401K's, pensions, vacations, sick day

8. Suspend the ADA.

9. Suspend wage and hour laws, suspend overtime, holiday pay, child labor laws

who would suppot this? Dems? Republicans? Who here would say that workers IN AMERICA should be subject to such treatment? Would YOU work for those terms? Would you want your immigrant spouse to work under those conditions? Do you see what this is?

THIS is what US employers do when they hire illegals. This is the reason they do it. The punishment for stripping workers of their dignity and rights is so paltry it is al,ost a "no-brainer"

Now imagine that we have done this and all of are working under the same conditions illegals have...and employment goes up. THEN the suspension ends and employers are required to restore these benefits and costs...exactly the same that would happen if illegals are made "legal" by an amnesty. The savings the employers had been enjoying would vanish. Will they dip into their savings and pay it? Or will they lay off those workers and get others to avoid the costs of legal workers?

When the government REFUSES to enforce the laws it passes to protect workers and allows employers to hire people and avoid all the above benefits...it is no different!

No one here would stand still for the kinds of abuses I outlined above for Americans, why would you tolerate it for illegals?

Yet everyone talks around the elephant in the room. NO ONE focuses on this and it is NOT because it wouldn't work. It is because they know it WOULD work. Rush, Beck, O'Reilly, Olberman...NO ONE dares to mention punsihing AMERICAN employers that employ illegals. Strange, eh?

[james&olya 1,121]

I would like for everyone to think about a few things. we are in a recession and the government is looking for ways to help people get jobs, encourage businesses to hire people, reduce unemployment. Right? So lets say that that congress proposes some TEMPORARY changes to reduce costs or hiring people and encourage employers to hire more people. Just humor me, OK?

So in order to reduce the costs of hring employees. Congress proposes to temporarily...

1. Suspend the minimum wage. Just pay people whatever they will work for.

2. Suspend tax withholding

3. Suspend Social Security and Medicare.

4. Suspend OSHA

5. Suspend equal opportunity laws

6. Suspend laws relating to sexual harrassment

7. Suspend all benefits or any kind, retirement plans, 401K's, pensions, vacations, sick day

8. Suspend the ADA.

9. Suspend wage and hour laws, suspend overtime, holiday pay, child labor laws

who would suppot this? Dems? Republicans? Who here would say that workers IN AMERICA should be subject to such treatment? Would YOU work for those terms? Would you want your immigrant spouse to work under those conditions? Do you see what this is?

THIS is what US employers do when they hire illegals. This is the reason they do it. The punishment for stripping workers of their dignity and rights is so paltry it is al,ost a "no-brainer"

Now imagine that we have done this and all of are working under the same conditions illegals have...and employment goes up. THEN the suspension ends and employers are required to restore these benefits and costs...exactly the same that would happen if illegals are made "legal" by an amnesty. The savings the employers had been enjoying would vanish. Will they dip into their savings and pay it? Or will they lay off those workers and get others to avoid the costs of legal workers?

When the government REFUSES to enforce the laws it passes to protect workers and allows employers to hire people and avoid all the above benefits...it is no different!

No one here would stand still for the kinds of abuses I outlined above for Americans, why would you tolerate it for illegals?

Yet everyone talks around the elephant in the room. NO ONE focuses on this and it is NOT because it wouldn't work. It is because they know it WOULD work. Rush, Beck, O'Reilly, Olberman...NO ONE dares to mention punsihing AMERICAN employers that employ illegals. Strange, eh?

You are right! But then again I am sure we have the best government MONEY CAN BUY!! He who pays the piper gets to call the tune. And in our system that translates into who contributes to political campaigns gets to 'own' the government. And now with the new SCOTUS decision giving even more influence to corporate money in the electoral process the individual citizen gets even less consideration. I don't see much likelihood things change for the better on these immigration issues anytime soon, regardless of which party is in power. Both parties are too corrupt!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You are right! But then again I am sure we have the best government MONEY CAN BUY!! He who pays the piper gets to call the tune. And in our system that translates into who contributes to political campaigns gets to 'own' the government. And now with the new SCOTUS decision giving even more influence to corporate money in the electoral process the individual citizen gets even less consideration. I don't see much likelihood things change for the better on these immigration issues anytime soon, regardless of which party is in power. Both parties are too corrupt!

SCOTUS did not decide to give more influence to corporate money. The decided a particular law was unconstituitonal. Doesn't mean we can't make another law. Doesn't mean we can't limit all campaign spending to government funds voluntarily contributed to (such as tax check off) But you will never see that law because the people that would make the law don't want it. The campaign finance law was another smoke and mirror attempt to make you think something was done.

The same reason we do not have the FAIR TAX, it takes away the POWER that exists in the tax system (the power they seem to forget how to use to control illegal alines) There is no other reason not to repace our curent tax system which is broken to say the least.

Neither party WANTS to curtail illegal aliens. They BOTH want to exploit them all they can for votes and for cheap labor. Republicans fume and spend money on useless walls, fences, electronics. They get votes from their constituents who think they are doing something. The only "something" they are doing is funneling cash into the border protection industry. When they say that something "Costs xxx billion dollars" it means that someone is MAKING xxx billion dollars and they don't want the xxx billion dollars to go away by solving the "problem" they are being paid to solve. They develop into "industries" which feel they are entitled to exist. They funnel back money to politician so they keep building fences, buying electronics, etc.

Democrats speak of human rights and then allow people to be denied basic workplace wages and protections imn the hopes they wil have a path to citizenship, which will involve them being dependent on Democrats and being a solid voting bloc for them. The illegals will be made "legal", be laid off because they are no longer cheap, go on the government handout system and eventually be made citizens to vote for Dems that support government handouts. They are cultivated votes.

Simply enforcing our country's wage and hour and workplace protection laws with SEVERE penalties for people that break the law would eliminate the vast majority of illegal aliens in this country. They will self-deport. Why stay if their employer says "Sorry, but I cannot risk losing my business by employing you" ??? When illegals hear that chorus, they will be freed from what is basically slavery and go home. The rest is moot.

As if imagining what Was already written was not bad enough, consider further...

What if congress decided to suspend all the above but ONLY for black people? After all, BLACK people are more affected by the recession. Their unemployment is double what white people experience. Wouldn't it be "fair" to make them more attractive to hire by reducing the cost to hire black people? What do you think would happen if Congress suggested eliminating minimum wage and SS for black people? What if they said, in essence "Hire black people to do your roofing and you do not have to provide them with fall protection equipment...OSHA does not apply to black people" Do you think this would be seen as "fair"? Or racist? Would it be seen as "helping" black people? Or would it be considered segregation?

What would happen to a business that was paying black people less than minimum wage? what if they gave fall protection to white roofers but not black roofers? What if white roofers got pension plans and black people did not? Fair? Making blacks more attractive to hire?

Why is it OK for illegal aliens?

[peejay 327]

NO ONE dares to mention punsihing AMERICAN employers that employ illegals. Strange, eh?

How can you punish anyone when there is no mandatory system in place for vetting current and future employees?

I could give a sh*t what so and so has or hasn't done in the past. That doesn't cut it in my book. That was then and this is now. This has been promised since the first illegal alien amnesty in 1986 and since then there has been nothing but lies and excuses. If the frigging government can figure out how much tax I owe every year they can damned sure come up with a system to determine who is or is not authorized to work. It just takes some testicles to get it going. We know there are hundreds of illegal aliens working off of one legit Social Security number and many working off of 000-00-000. Grow some testicles to do something about it.

All I hear is a bunch of whining and backpeddling from the usual suspects about why we can't do it. Boloney! Sh*t or get off the pot. If Obama and his band of merry clowns can't figure out how to do it I'm sure his replacement can. He is ultimately accountable to the American people rather than his Undocumented Democrats he so loves and protects. Obama is replaceable. Make no mistake about that.

That is the bottom line if you really want to get something done. The question is whether enough Americans are on board. With an anemic economy and a a labor glut I see no reason why any patriotic American would want to screw over our own people in favor of illegal aliens. Unfortunately, apparently there are. I see them on VJ every day.

[Captain Oates 911]

How can you punish anyone when there is no mandatory system in place for vetting current and future employees?

I could give a sh*t what so and so has or hasn't done in the past. That doesn't cut it in my book. That was then and this is now. This has been promised since the first illegal alien amnesty in 1986 and since then there has been nothing but lies and excuses. If the frigging government can figure out how much tax I owe every year they can damned sure come up with a system to determine who is or is not authorized to work. It just takes some testicles to get it going. We know there are hundreds of illegal aliens working off of one legit Social Security number and many working off of 000-00-000. Grow some testicles to do something about it.

All I hear is a bunch of whining and backpeddling from the usual suspects about why we can't do it. Boloney! Sh*t or get off the pot. If Obama and his band of merry clowns can't figure out how to do it I'm sure his replacement can. He is ultimately accountable to the American people rather than his Undocumented Democrats he so loves and protects. Obama is replaceable. Make no mistake about that.

That is the bottom line if you really want to get something done. The question is whether enough Americans are on board. With an anemic economy and a a labor glut I see no reason why any patriotic American would want to screw over our own people in favor of illegal aliens. Unfortunately, apparently there are. I see them on VJ every day.

Are you suggesting Janet Napolitano does not have testicles ? Feds use shoulder holsters everyone knows that - so we would need a TSA scan to settle it.