More than a million (illegal) immigrants land U.S. jobs

[james&olya 1,121]

One flaw - Americans will not do the jobs

Cleaning Rush Limbaugh's toilet or Sarah's cod guts

They wont do it

Not at any price

I wouldn't - would you ?

Hence illegals don't detract from economic activity. If people who don't like illegals on moral grounds were to say they would accept a lower level of economic activity to get rid of them then I would respect that.

However, saying that a lower level of economic activity does not make the nation poorer is clearly nonsensical

Suggesting that an unemployed 58 year old car plant worker in Michigan would live in a wooden field shack in Washington state and pick apples 15 hours a day for a pittance is more fantasy

The art is to work with the grain and get the best outcome - not against it

When I was in high school I did those jobs and more. I know many people that are US Citizens who clean toilets, etc. My own hobby is building, I do all of it myself that does not require heavy equipment. I dig ditches and pour concrete myself. I have a professional degree and an income high enough to have anticipated a tax increase from Obama (who I voted for anyway). I think Gary is absolutely correct on this (along with Pooky) that Americans will gladly do these jobs but they will expect a decent wage, workplace safety, overtime rules, health care, etc. And all of us that turn a blind eye so that we can continue to enjoy cheap lettuce and tomatoes are a part of this problem!

[Captain Oates 911]

Of course, you can't back this claim up with any data. I won't even ask you to produce the data because it doesn't exist.

Rightos make me laugh - first they say that the unemployed are lazy shirkers who don't want a job because they get unemployment pay - then they say there are 11 million Americans just waiting and eager to take over the illegals' jobs cleaning toilets and doing stoop labor in the fields and cleaning out chemical tanks with a one dollar face mask (if that) - if only the illegals could be forced out.

Get the illegals out and then starve the Americans into these jobs - real patriots who care for their fellow citizens, or are we back to Mississippi and 1859 ?

See what I mean about rightos ? They don't think it through. The Cambodians took bankers up country at bayonet point and made them work the rice fields - do we do that to unemployed wall street stock brokers ?

The right wing have more in common with Pol Pot than Reagan

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

Imagine . . . all of a sudden all illegal aliens were gone. Think of the movie "A Day Without A Mexican" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0377744/) ,

What would the farmers who rely heavily on cheap and -- dare I say -- Mexican labor do? Let their apples and lettuce rot and commit suicide, or try to get people to do what needs to be done, for $9.00 or even $10.00 an hour instead of $3.50 or $4.50?

I think they would do anything in their power to keep their livelyhood afloat. The result? Higher prices for apples and lettuce, as we had it for cotton after the Negro slaves were freed and the Southerners had to pay the people doing the slave work. And? Tell you what . . . I'm buying organic, free range eggs and at the farmers' market to support local growers already. I don't mind a bit paying more for apples and lettuce and oranges and egges and what else. Not a bit!

I also buy "Made in America" whenever possible. Levi's jeans? Made in China! But you can buy American and thus vote with your pocket book, as I do! (http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/jeans.htm)

But people rather buy at WalMart, the cheapest #######, and thus support China's economy!

Which brings me to my final point.

Illegals do jobs Americans won't do! So every illegal immigrant takes away a job from an American?

Now, please explain to me what American companies who outsource labor to Mexico or India or China do. How many jobs do they take away from Americans? How can we complain about illegals if we turn a blind eye to outsourcing and buy "Made in China" instead of demanding "Made in the USA?"

It's all a game of the corporation-controlled politicians to distract from the real problem, which is corporate controlled politics.

There, I said it again!

Full disclosure:

I am a very liberal, yet fiscally conservative gun owner and single payer health care proponent who just registered to vote as an independent.

[^_^ 5,021]

I am a very liberal, yet fiscally conservative gun owner and single payer health care proponent who just registered to vote as an independent.

You are not very liberal.

[lostinblue 1,989]

Not really. There are not enough apple pickers that show up to pick apples when it is time to pick apples. So, they get whatever they want for wages, a premium wage for the apple picking season. Because of the labor costs, and not being able to compete with cheap Washington State apples, most of the apple orchards here have been turned to vineyards. A major processor, Vacu-Dry left town. It is not looking too good for your theory.

http://www.turfmagazine.com/article.php?id=255

“We need an agriculturally based jobs bill or legislation that will allow guest workers to come in, work and return home. Without that source of labor we won’t be able to harvest our crops,” said Jim Allen, president of the New York Apple Association.

“American workers will not do that type of work,” he said. “Offshore migrant workers need to be here for three months or two months, period. It’s a seasonal situation.”

Central to the dispute is the H-2A guest worker program, which requires farmers to pay a wage of $10 to $12 per hour, provide housing, pay for transportation to and from the guest worker’s home, and pay for weekly trips into town to a bank and grocery store.

Jugging cider in 1971 at Fly Creek Cider Mill & Orchard in Fly Creek, N.Y.

“The H-2A program is not large enough, and they can’t handle the demand or need, and it’s a very cumbersome program,” Allen said.

The cost, of course, is a major reason that farmers balk at hiring through the guest worker program. Green said that Chazy Orchard has been using the program for 50 years and hasn’t had to worry about fruit falling on the ground because no one is there to do the picking. “We have 150 Jamaicans on the farm now, and they’re all legal,” he said.

Costs and the possible collision with ICE agents seem to have scared some orchard owners into jumping into the H-2A program, albeit reluctantly. Orders for guest workers rose from seven to 30 in Wayne County in the last year, DeMarree said.

[Captain Oates 911]

Full disclosure:

I am a very liberal, yet fiscally conservative gun owner and single payer health care proponent who just registered to vote as an independent.

jeeeee-zusss !!!!!

If ever you become an atheist you would be fully equipped to steal my identity and/or use my kidney

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Imagine . . . all of a sudden all illegal aliens were gone. Think of the movie "A Day Without A Mexican" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0377744/) ,

What would the farmers who rely heavily on cheap and -- dare I say -- Mexican labor do? Let their apples and lettuce rot and commit suicide, or try to get people to do what needs to be done, for $9.00 or even $10.00 an hour instead of $3.50 or $4.50?

Try $30 to $40 per hour, at least in this area, for seasonal skilled farm labor. Now that the border has tightened up, the supply of migrant workers has declined, and wages have increased. Ten years ago, they were averaging about $100/day. That has tripled, even quadrupled over the decade.

[웃 910]

You are not very liberal.

Well what do you call someone that wants Bush, Cheney, AND Obama

EXECUTED?

Edited January 24, 2011 by Lord Infamous

[^_^ 5,021]

Liberals don't execute people.

[Ban Hammer 13,498]

Liberals don't execute people.

sure they do, they tax them to death.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Liberals don't execute people.

How does a Liberal define people?

[Captain Oates 911]

sure they do, they tax them to death.

The US should opt for this form of execution and then the international community would be prepared to extradite people to the US

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

It's not really part of this discussion, but Baby Bush, Cheney and Obama have more blood on their hands and are responsible for more deaths then all the mass murders in US prisons combined. It has nothing to do with partisanship; it's about wars for profit at the expensive of human lives.

Nobody would attack the US if every single US soldier would withdraw from Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. On the contrary, the moment we stop shooting at their people and discontinue guiding drones into their schools and hospitals, they will hate us less.

Guess I'm a pacifist as well.

Go Kucinich!

Edited January 24, 2011 by Just Bob

[^_^ 5,021]

Nobody would attack the US if every single US soldier would withdraw from Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Would you have said that on 9/10/01? Because, you know, they attacked us on 9/11/01 and it had nothing to do with American troops in Iraq. It had everything to do with American troops in Saudi Arabia. This isn't my theory, that's what UBL said.

[Pooky 3,827]

Would you have said that on 9/10/01? Because, you know, they attacked us on 9/11/01 and it had nothing to do with American troops in Iraq. It had everything to do with American troops in Saudi Arabia. This isn't my theory, that's what UBL said.

Shhhhhhh!

Quit quoting facts, will ya? You're messing up an interesting discussion with your reality checks!