More than a million (illegal) immigrants land U.S. jobs

[Pooky 3,809]

Those still exist? I thought your tea party had eliminated them!

Very quick to jump in with the labels, aren't you? Typical of your kind.

I have no political affiliation or preference. The Tea Party is no more mine than it is yours. But that won't make a difference to you, because you're happy in your ignorance. Not that it bothers me. Your opinion, uninformed as it is, is just meaningless noise.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

And this is why you can only put 16 pancakes in a doghouse because a car only has four doors (Alan will now argue that some cars only have two doors)

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Very quick to jump in with the labels, aren't you? Typical of your kind.

I have no political affiliation or preference. The Tea Party is no more mine than it is yours. But that won't make a difference to you, because you're happy in your ignorance. Not that it bothers me. Your opinion, uninformed as it is, is just meaningless noise.

But it is, uniquely American

[sjr09 155]

And this is why you can only put 16 pancakes in a doghouse because a car only has four doors (Alan will now argue that some cars only have two doors)

Chevy made a three door Suburban!

[james&olya 1,121]

Very quick to jump in with the labels, aren't you? Typical of your kind.

I have no political affiliation or preference. The Tea Party is no more mine than it is yours. But that won't make a difference to you, because you're happy in your ignorance. Not that it bothers me. Your opinion, uninformed as it is, is just meaningless noise.

Excuuuuuse me!!! Let me change it to The tea party then! Didn't mean to insult you so!

[Captain Oates 911]

So, you'd vote for a completely nutty Democrat over a Republican who was a moderate advocating sensible policy choices?

Nice to know that political naïveté is alive and well in British expats.

As there is a truce where everyone in the country is using moderate language, I wouldn't use the word 'hate' when describing the right wing, but if the truce wasn't in place then I would.

Their first characteristic is their willingness to stand aside and watch a person in pain, simply because they have no money - or have them bankrupted and thrown out of their house into the street. That is all I need to know of the right wing and I hope they get some of their own medicine one day - which is none if they have no money

I am an extreme right wing left winger and somewhat left wing centrist. My politics are very close to Obama's but almost single issue (universal health). You remember President Obama, the one that the majority of the American public voted for and who currently has a 52% approval rating ?

Heck that puts me with the majority. VJ politics is full of disgruntled right wingers with guns and grudges - but the country is opposite to that. Long may it stay so.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

As there is a truce where everyone in the country is using moderate language, I wouldn't use the word 'hate' when describing the right wing, but if the truce wasn't in place then I would.

Their first characteristic is their willingness to stand aside and watch a person in pain, simply because they have no money - or have them bankrupted and thrown out of their house into the street. That is all I need to know of the right wing and I hope they get some of their own medicine one day - which is none if they have no money

I am an extreme right wing left winger and somewhat left wing centrist. My politics are very close to Obama's but almost single issue (universal health). You remember President Obama, the one that the majority of the American public voted for and who currently has a 52% approval rating ?

Heck that puts me with the majority. VJ politics is full of disgruntled right wingers with guns and grudges - but the country is opposite to that. Long may it stay so.

We (in Vermont) will soon have the only single payer health care system in the country and the rest of you can keep the trash Obama collected together. You understand that as soon as we do that, Vermont will out out of Obama care. I am in favor of the plan because unlike Obamacare it will be a reduction in our medical insurance costs and controlled by a local government.

AND we can carry guns without a license.

How do you feel about American employers circumventing all the government protections, for workers, including healthcare for workers, by hiring illegal aliens for profit?

Edited January 23, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[Pooky 3,809]

My politics are very close to Obama's but almost single issue (universal health).

Right there is where you make no sense at all. Obama had no healthcare reform plan, just a campaign pledge. The "healthcare" legislation that got passed is nothing of the sort, as it sold the American people out to the insurance industry, pharmaceutical companies, unions and any Democrat who wanted a sweetener to buy their vote. He had the chance to put something meaningful and actually reforming the healthcare aspect, but he chose the easy route - to pass something instead of the right thing.

Given the chance, and the votes, to pass something good, the Democrats managed to pass a 2300 page mess - and champion it like it's an historic milestone. Except it's more like a millstone. And the insurance industry is laughing all the way to the bank.

[james&olya 1,121]

Right there is where you make no sense at all. Obama had no healthcare reform plan, just a campaign pledge. The "healthcare" legislation that got passed is nothing of the sort, as it sold the American people out to the insurance industry, pharmaceutical companies, unions and any Democrat who wanted a sweetener to buy their vote. He had the chance to put something meaningful and actually reforming the healthcare aspect, but he chose the easy route - to pass something instead of the right thing.

Given the chance, and the votes, to pass something good, the Democrats managed to pass a 2300 page mess - and champion it like it's an historic milestone. Except it's more like a millstone. And the insurance industry is laughing all the way to the bank.

I have to admit you are right on most of this. The only good thing about this bill is that what it replaces was worse. It is amazing to me to see how much support exists outside of Washington for single-payer 'medicare for all'! Why can't this idea even come up for a vote? I know the answer but it shouldn't be like this!

[Captain Oates 911]

We (in Vermont) will soon have the only single payer health care system in the country and the rest of you can keep the trash Obama collected together. You understand that as soon as we do that, Vermont will out out of Obama care. I am in favor of the plan because unlike Obamacare it will be a reduction in our medical insurance costs and controlled by a local government.

AND we can carry guns without a license.

How do you feel about American employers circumventing all the government protections, for workers, including healthcare for workers, by hiring illegal aliens for profit?

As these employers support the health insurance companies so that only people currently indentured and chained to them get any benefits, and give tiny vacations and have instant firing and see their empoyees as cannon fodder, I wish them the heavy hand of ICE. It does seem suspicious that the gov does not crack down. Anyone who has dealt with the USCIS knows how nit-picky the gov can be if they want to be.

My wife is a specialist in this area and says the smaller employers or de-centralized employers must be colluding in fraud as the larger firms follow the law in every case she has come across.

I was reading a case here in this town where a guy was called into HR and told his drivers license and green card were forgeries - he said to the employer - ok I have others, try these - take your pick - and they did. Big company but local. That came to light several years later when the guy's wife decided to stick it to him at divorce time.

This is the biggest apple growing area in the world and you can imagine what % are illegal. The economy would collapse without the illegals.

I would first give work visas only to the non-criminals - the visa would not be a path to a green card. I would raise the penalty on employers to 100k per instance and enforce it by private bounty hunter firms on commission

The rest of the fine money would go into a universal health fund

[Pooky 3,809]

This is the biggest apple growing area in the world and you can imagine what % are illegal. The economy would collapse without the illegals.

The economy wouldn't collapse, it would adjust. Things would get more expensive, as previously non-compliant employers were forced to adhere to the law, but the economy would just find it's level again.

But the unemployment level would fall, as employers were forced to look closer to home.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I have to admit you are right on most of this. The only good thing about this bill is that what it replaces was worse. It is amazing to me to see how much support exists outside of Washington for single-payer 'medicare for all'! Why can't this idea even come up for a vote? I know the answer but it shouldn't be like this!

It didn't "replace" anything. WHAT did it replace?

The Vermont delegation supported the idea of healthcare and while they ultimately voted for this mess, they have now come back and urged the Vermont legislature to pass a single payer program and opt out of Obamacare. Our Senator Sanders propsed an amendment to Obamacare that would have provided for single payer and it was stepped on by DEMs. There is actually nothing good about Obamacare and ultimately he had to fight an uphill battle against his own party to get passed. It became a pathetic embarrassment that skewered his political abilty to pass his other agenda items. So much for Cap and Trade and others.

His approval rating? Lest any of you forget George H W Bush had an approval rating nearing 90% in February and March of 1991. Right after kicking Iraq out of Kuwait in 4 days flat. He lost the election in 1992 to the lowest paid Governor in the country that no one had heard of in March 1991.

We will pass single payer here, it is overwhelmingly favored in our legislature and the people seem to be big supporters of it, also employers like it. The governor ran on the issue and was elected on the issue and will sign it. The insurance industry does not like it, big surprise. It will not make a difference. They should pack their bags and plan on taking the next ferry over to New York

Employers will not have to pay the payroll tax for illegal aliens they hire and the illegals will not have healthcare, but that is OK because they are brown and we get cheap lettuce. Actually, despite a heavily agricultural economy, Vermont has the lowest number of illegal aliens in the country.

[Captain Oates 911]

The economy wouldn't collapse, it would adjust. Things would get more expensive, as previously non-compliant employers were forced to adhere to the law, but the economy would just find it's level again.

But the unemployment level would fall, as employers were forced to look closer to home.

When the guys at Boeing and Microsoft leave their jobs to come over the mountain and do a tap dance on the rattlesnakes while they spread noxious chemicals on apple trees in 110 degree heat, I will believe it. These ultra republicans in these parts are good at slagging the workers off, but won't get their 300 lb botties down out of their pickups to do the work

If the Mexicanos are made legal to do NOTHING except work under those horrible working conditions on a limited contract, I can't see a downside. After all they are coming anyway - legal or not.

Better legal, but on our terms where they get to spend their lives and health in unskilled stoop labor while we tax the hell out of em and spend it killing other foreigners with our high tech goods, the budget for which cannot ever be reduced.

Everything is comparative - compared to what we have now, that would be a massive improvement.

Edited January 24, 2011 by Alan the Red

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

As these employers support the health insurance companies so that only people currently indentured and chained to them get any benefits, and give tiny vacations and have instant firing and see their empoyees as cannon fodder, I wish them the heavy hand of ICE. It does seem suspicious that the gov does not crack down. Anyone who has dealt with the USCIS knows how nit-picky the gov can be if they want to be.

My wife is a specialist in this area and says the smaller employers or de-centralized employers must be colluding in fraud as the larger firms follow the law in every case she has come across.

I was reading a case here in this town where a guy was called into HR and told his drivers license and green card were forgeries - he said to the employer - ok I have others, try these - take your pick - and they did. Big company but local. That came to light several years later when the guy's wife decided to stick it to him at divorce time.

This is the biggest apple growing area in the world and you can imagine what % are illegal. The economy would collapse without the illegals.

I would first give work visas only to the non-criminals - the visa would not be a path to a green card. I would raise the penalty on employers to 100k per instance and enforce it by private bounty hunter firms on commission

The rest of the fine money would go into a universal health fund

BS! We would pay more for apples, so would everyone else. Vermont is overwhelmingly agricultural (and even a leading producer of apples) and has virtually no illegal aliens and one of the highest minimum wages in the country, and a minimum wage that adjusts every January 1.

What other workers could we take wages and benefits from? Auto workers maybe? Teachers? what other part of the economy would benefit? Clearly you are one of those that believes benefits and basic wages are for white people.

I have no issue with legal immigrants. Your "plans" mean nothing. Legal immigrants or even legal migrant workers need to be paid minimum wage, have benefits, work protections, payroll tax (SS and medicare) etc. etc. The employers will STILL hire illegals to save $$$ no matter how many work visas you give out. It does not matter how many immigrants you allow in, how easy you make it, if it is CHEAPER to hire illegals, employers will do it. NO PLAN to increase legal immigration or migrant workers has ANY HOPE of succedding unless you can stop everyone circumventing the law.

WHY are you against punishing employers for circumventing wage and hour laws for profit?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

When the guys at Boeing and Microsoft leave their jobs to come over the mountain and do a tap dance on the rattlesnakes while they spread noxious chemicals on apple trees in 110 degree heat, I will believe it. These ultra republicans in these parts are good at slagging the workers off, but won't get their 300 lb botties down out of their pickups to do the work

If the Mexicanos are made legal to do NOTHING except work under those horrible working conditions on a limited contract, I can't see a downside. After all they are coming anyway - legal or not.

Better legal, but on our terms where they get to spend their lives and health in unskilled stoop labor while we tax the hell out of em and spend it killing other foreigners with our high tech goods, the budget for which cannot ever be reduced.

Everything is comparative - compared to what we have now, that would be a massive improvement.

BS. Americans will do any kind of work if they are a paid a wage and receive benefits that allows them to raise their families HERE. I work everyday with men that do very hard, very dirty, very difficult work. They are paid very well, receive good benefits, we spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on safety training, safety equipment, they have health insurance, vacations, 401K plans. There are virtually no illegal aliens here. You are going to tell me the men that form concrete will not pick apples? You think they are afraid of rattlesnakes? You think bricktenders won't pick apples? You think roofers won't spray trees with chemicals while protected with proper safty equipment. They WON'T do it for $25 per day, but they WILL do it.