It's time for Women on the front-line of combat

[Danno 1,228]

Actually slim, the whole premise behind Danno's question is irrelevant. How many men or women are physically fit enough for duty at the beginning of training camp versus at the end, that is what matters. I don't think that antiquated gender roles should preclude women from serving. I'm not saying that we should just wave some magic wand and shove all the women into those roles, but give them the opportunity to do so. If they are physically and mentally capable of performing their duties, and are fully apprised of the dangers that lurk, then why not? This is 2011, not 1951, we as a society have evolved, so should the military. Those same reasons were used 50 years ago to exclude women from the workforce, but we got over that, and I think we are fine today.

Earlier you suggested that pull ups were no longer used to gauge fitness in the military since the 70's.

I served in the 80's and it was and still is one of three components of scoring.

THe test and the scoring remains the same since I was in.

Maximums and minimums USMC

To earn a perfect PFT score of 300 points, a male must do 20 pull-ups, 100 crunches in less than two minutes, and complete the three mile run in 18 minutes or less. A female perfect score is 70 seconds on the flexed arm hang, 100 crunches, and a 21 minute three mile run. Marines who score above a 285 receive certifications as an award for their higher than average fitness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_Physical_Fitness_Test

Take note of the two standards.... one for men and another, lesser for women.

Also note not even one pull up is required..... just hanging.

keep in mind for every female "given the opportunity" to train for combat who washes out ....(at a much higher rate).... those are slots men are not filling and available for action.

This PC stance would be kinda expensive in dollars if nothing else.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Who gives a sh!t if there's a different fitness standard? Women are built differently, who knew.

Yet women still manage to do difficult physically demanding jobs.

Regardless, i wonder if guys like Danno, who are a bit... shall we say... long in the tooth and soggy around the midsection could compete with a female athlete. I rather doubt it.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

The feminazis have so emasculated the young males in this country, I say put let them all serve in combat, boys and girls together on the line, but pink dresses for everybody. That way the enemy won't mistake us for a real fighting force.

[Ban Hammer 13,408]

Who gives a sh!t if there's a different fitness standard? Women are built differently, who knew.

ah let's try to correct that ignorance, shall we?

why should someone give a chit? real simple: the difference in standards allows one to achieve a higher pt test score and thus garner more promotion points. i've personally seen it happen where a guy did twice as many pushups, about the same number of situps, and lapped the female on the two mile run. both were in the same age bracket. the difference - he got a 270 and she got a 300 - a difference in promotion points that was at the time equal to a full years worth of college.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Earlier you suggested that pull ups were no longer used to gauge fitness in the military since the 70's.

I served in the 80's and it was and still is one of three components of scoring.

THe test and the scoring remains the same since I was in.

Maximums and minimums USMC

To earn a perfect PFT score of 300 points, a male must do 20 pull-ups, 100 crunches in less than two minutes, and complete the three mile run in 18 minutes or less. A female perfect score is 70 seconds on the flexed arm hang, 100 crunches, and a 21 minute three mile run. Marines who score above a 285 receive certifications as an award for their higher than average fitness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_Physical_Fitness_Test

Take note of the two standards.... one for men and another, lesser for women.

Also note not even one pull up is required..... just hanging.

keep in mind for every female "given the opportunity" to train for combat who washes out ....(at a much higher rate).... those are slots men are not filling and available for action.

This PC stance would be kinda expensive in dollars if nothing else.

No push-ups? Crunches, not sit-ups? Lame!

http://www.apft-standards.com/index.html

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

ah let's try to correct that ignorance, shall we?

why should someone give a chit? real simple: the difference in standards allows one to achieve a higher pt test score and thus garner more promotion points. i've personally seen it happen where a guy did twice as many pushups, about the same number of situps, and lapped the female on the two mile run. both were in the same age bracket. the difference - he got a 270 and she got a 300 - a difference in promotion points that was at the time equal to a full years worth of college.

So what? The issue is whether or not women should be allowed to serve in front line combat. The fact that women routinely do other highly demanding, physical roles should make the case for this self evident.

Not that this make a difference in the minds of chauvinists.

[Ban Hammer 13,408]

So what? The issue is whether or not women should be allowed to serve in front line combat. The fact that women routinely do other highly demanding, physical roles should make the case for this self evident.

Not that this make a difference in the minds of chauvinists.

earlier it was who cares if there was a difference fitness standard. now that i've shown you why some care, you change direction

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't think you're reading the same thread. The fitness standard for men is irrelevant to the fact that women routinely do dangerous and physically demanding jobs.

Do you have a problem with women cops or firefighters? I dont. Why would the military be any different.

[^_^ 5,021]

I don't think you're reading the same thread. The fitness standard for men is irrelevant to the fact that women routinely do dangerous and physically demanding jobs.

Fitness standards do matter when the difference in standards affects the lives of others. I'm not so concerned with their potential for promotion, but if someone (anyone) gets to take advantage of a lower fitness standard and that lower standard puts the lives of those he or she serves with (or members of the public) at risk, then I have a problem with that lower standard.

[Ban Hammer 13,408]

Fitness standards do matter when the difference in standards affects the lives of others. I'm not so concerned with their potential for promotion, but if someone (anyone) gets to take advantage of a lower fitness standard and that lower standard puts the lives of those he or she serves with (or members of the public) at risk, then I have a problem with that lower standard.

if you want to see a firsthand example of the standards difference, go to a military base and watch a pt run. bonus points if you wait 15 minutes after the formation has passed you by and you count the stragglers and note the sex of each one.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I think women should be allowed in all duties if they meet the men's standards. This is common sense right?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Man i must lack upper body strength. I could do the run and the crunches but I am seriously deficient on pull ups. I can barely do 5.

[Ban Hammer 13,408]

I think women should be allowed in all duties if they meet the men's standards. This is common sense right?

that would make sense - one standard.

[^_^ 5,021]

Man i must lack upper body strength. I could do the run and the crunches but I am seriously deficient on pull ups. I can barely do 5.

I hear ya. I have more lower body strength than upper. I suck at push ups but I do like doing leg presses at the gym. It's fun doing things you're good at

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I hear ya. I have more lower body strength than upper. I suck at push ups but I do like doing leg presses at the gym. It's fun doing things you're good at

When you carry extra weight, you naturally develop lower body strength and mass. Increase your low impact cardios, and go for reps over weight. Once you lose the mass, you can do the push ups and pull ups just fine. Your upper body will thank you later in life for limiting the strength training to 1 or 2 times a week now and going for flexibility and speed.