BIG cultural adjustments

[Perseverance 1]

I know that there are plenty of things that I do that my SO does not understand, so it goes both ways.

...

Look at all that our SOs have sacrificed to be with us. What I have listed is so small. We have talked about all of these things and more, and he tells me he will adjust. To me he is a brave man to leave all that he knows, to come to a different country, all for a woman that he loves. I feel honored. I know it will not be easy for him. I will support him and have patience while he is adjusting to life in America. It is the least I can do, after the sacrifice he has made for me.

In my experience, leaving Nigeria is not much of a sacrifice it is a welcomed opportuninty that many pray for their children. Even if it is to come here an drive a cab. Those selling on the streets would jump on it. For too many there is no comfort back home. only struggle and sacrifice.

How much of a sacrifice is it leave a place like lagos and have constant electricity, clean typhoid free water, a bus system that gives you your own seat and provides air conditioning, cops that protect you and come when you call, cars that are pulled off the road for polluting, any type of food imaginable to select from in an air conditioned store where you pay the price you see not the one you bargain for.....

Let's keep it real. I know i could not adjust to the life in Lagos so I don't think that it is so much of a sacrifice to leave it, to me it is more of a win win for the couple. The TRUE sacrifice or test for love would be for a US citizen born and raised to live in Africa because their SO could not secure a visa for entry into the US.

Just because it is less desireable to us does not mean that they would not miss the only home that they have ever known. Someones home does not have to be glamourous for it to mean something to them. And I was not just referring to these from Nigeria, to all who have decided to leave their homes to come here to us. What about the personal sacrifice that they have made for us.

And yes that would be a huge sacrifice for me to go to Nigeria to be with him. We have talked about it. I have 3 children and their father will not let me take them out of the country. Justice does not want me to leave me children behind, so we are working on bringing him here.

No matter how bad you think it may be where they came from, it is still a sacrifice to have left what they know. I did not say that they could not have a better life here. They can, but it will take alot of adjusting, and we need to have patience with them.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Heather & Justice

[LovinLiberia 0]

Look at all that our SOs have sacrificed to be with us. What I have listed is so small. We have talked about all of these things and more, and he tells me he will adjust. To me he is a brave man to leave all that he knows, to come to a different country, all for a woman that he loves. I feel honored. I know it will not be easy for him. I will support him and have patience while he is adjusting to life in America. It is the least I can do, after the sacrifice he has made for me.

Very well said! I couldn't have said that better myself.

Just because it is less desireable to us does not mean that they would not miss the only home that they have ever known. Someones home does not have to be glamourous for it to mean something to them. And I was not just referring to these from Nigeria, to all who have decided to leave their homes to come here to us. What about the personal sacrifice that they have made for us.

And yes that would be a huge sacrifice for me to go to Nigeria to be with him. We have talked about it. I have 3 children and their father will not let me take them out of the country. Justice does not want me to leave me children behind, so we are working on bringing him here.

No matter how bad you think it may be where they came from, it is still a sacrifice to have left what they know. I did not say that they could not have a better life here. They can, but it will take alot of adjusting, and we need to have patience with them.

I also agree, wholeheartedly, with this. This issue is one of the main topics that my fiance and I discuss. He comes from a very war-torn country with no infastructure, no electricity or running water (for more than a decade now), a very bad security force, etc, etc...but yet, he is still happy. It is the only place he has ever known and even though it is hard to live there and he has to struggle, he is still happy. He has all of the non-material wealth to make up for the lack of comforts. A great family to spend time with, classmates that he's grown up with, a secure job (no matter how much the pay sucks), a home, pets, the ocean in his backyard... So I do agree that just because it is "bad" doesn't mean it isn't a sacrifice. I will also remember to be patient with him when he arrives and starts the adjustment process. This is will be a very hard process for both of us, but even more for him because it is simply something that he is not used to.

Edited August 30, 2006 by PrincessMetzger

[southernchic 0]

Look at all that our SOs have sacrificed to be with us. What I have listed is so small. We have talked about all of these things and more, and he tells me he will adjust. To me he is a brave man to leave all that he knows, to come to a different country, all for a woman that he loves. I feel honored. I know it will not be easy for him. I will support him and have patience while he is adjusting to life in America. It is the least I can do, after the sacrifice he has made for me.

Very well said! I couldn't have said that better myself.

Just because it is less desireable to us does not mean that they would not miss the only home that they have ever known. Someones home does not have to be glamourous for it to mean something to them. And I was not just referring to these from Nigeria, to all who have decided to leave their homes to come here to us. What about the personal sacrifice that they have made for us.

And yes that would be a huge sacrifice for me to go to Nigeria to be with him. We have talked about it. I have 3 children and their father will not let me take them out of the country. Justice does not want me to leave me children behind, so we are working on bringing him here.

No matter how bad you think it may be where they came from, it is still a sacrifice to have left what they know. I did not say that they could not have a better life here. They can, but it will take alot of adjusting, and we need to have patience with them.

I also agree, wholeheartedly, with this. This issue is one of the main topics that my fiance and I discuss. He comes from a very war-torn country with no infastructure, no electricity or running water (for more than a decade now), a very bad security force, etc, etc...but yet, he is still happy. It is the only place he has ever known and even though it is hard to live there and he has to struggle, he is still happy. He has all of the non-material wealth to make up for the lack of comforts. A great family to spend time with, classmates that he's grown up with, a secure job (no matter how much the pay sucks), a home, pets, the ocean in his backyard... So I do agree that just because it is "bad" doesn't mean it isn't a sacrifice. I will also remember to be patient with him when he arrives and starts the adjustment process. This is will be a very hard process for both of us, but even more for him because it is simply something that he is not used to.

I am really enjoying this discussion and its good to get diverse thoughts on this issue. I have to say that I don't feel sorry for my husband for coming here. I don't even know if the transition is harder for him than it is for me. I can't answer that. He's making sacrifices. I'm making sacrifices. He's not living up the street from his family or his friends. That's hard. He's adjusting to a new environment. Yes, that's tough. But...let's keep it many of our SO want to be here, too.

My husband doesn't want for anything. My husband has a gym membership, cell phone, health insurance, nice home, several friends from Ethiopia living nearby, relatives living nearby. The transition is stressful but at the same time he's starting a new life -- a life he's always wanted. Maybe I'm just hard core like that.

S

[LovinLiberia 0]

I can definately see where you are coming from with that point. That is the thing that my fiance reminds me about when the conversation come up. He says "yes, I'll be sad to leave all behind, BUT it is for a better future that I would've never had by just staying in Liberia." Now, I will have to make sacrifices, also. It's going to be so hard to get used to living with a man again. For a long while now, it's just been me and my two girls. Now, there's going to be 6 ft of testosterone walking around, lol. Wonder what thats like? *sigh* I can say one thing for sure...this will definately be a life changing experience and an eye opener.

[S&S 1]

Leaving Nigeria may not be much of a sacrifice in the economical sense, but it is a BIG sacrifice in so many other ways. Granted things are more comfortable because of electricity, education, and opportunities but it is so hard to move to a place were things are so foreign, you lose a sense of comfort/belonging that you may never get back. Some of your values, cultures, and other things which are so essentially important to you have to be modified or lost for you to fit in or adapt. America is a great place to be but can be difficult as well.

[ijeme 0]

Leaving Nigeria may not be much of a sacrifice in the economical sense, but it is a BIG sacrifice in so many other ways. Granted things are more comfortable because of electricity, education, and opportunities but it is so hard to move to a place were things are so foreign, you lose a sense of comfort/belonging that you may never get back. Some of your values, cultures, and other things which are so essentially important to you have to be modified or lost for you to fit in or adapt. America is a great place to be but can be difficult as well.

Please keep in mind i am speaking from personal experience. I have travelled to Lagos Nigeria 5 times in 16 months by choice or should i say force in trying to wait out this visa process. The culture is prevalent in watching the elders or during special events like marriage or child birth or in greetings but the youth in the now generation has already accepted what may be called foreign. I saw a whole lot of folks walking and taking on cell phones, or listening to ipods with headphones. I wore more african attire than those around me. I saw more jeans, yes jeans in this hot climate than wraps and aftans. More perms and weave than natural braids or afros. Don't get me wrong the culture is not lost but already heavily influenced by the US and UK. And this happens whether or not they have traveled.

[S&S 1]

When i talk about assimilating into a new environment, i don't mean the fact of wearing jeans, talking on cellphones, having perms etc. Granted, a lot of western culture is of great influence in nigeria as is in many other countries but talking about clothes, technology does not begin to touch the surface of culture shock that is experienced once moving to the U.S this is from personal experience and family members that have recently moved here both in the youth and elderly age.

[Optimystic 0]

When i talk about assimilating into a new environment, i don't mean the fact of wearing jeans, talking on cellphones, having perms etc. Granted, a lot of western culture is of great influence in nigeria as is in many other countries but talking about clothes, technology does not begin to touch the surface of culture shock that is experienced once moving to the U.S this is from personal experience and family members that have recently moved here both in the youth and elderly age.

The most daunting struggle my hubby is attempting to comprehend is the American value system. In particular, the lack of family values/unity. Where in Naija can you so readily find Adult Care/Residential treatment facilities, and Senior living centers??? No, it's just a given that family members provide care for family-at all costs. America is known for being a 'Throw Away' society, in many aspects... We throw away our ill/dibilitated family when they inconvenience our lifestyle (God forbid we allow them to come live in our homes for a period longer than a weekend stay-if that....) Over 50% of American marriages are thrown away with "No fault divorce". Now, kids can go through the court system to divorce their parents. Finally, we waste our resources (natural & man made) like crazy! America is considered to be one of the best places in the world, if your primary focus is obtaining material wealth. However, where is the higher social moral ground? Heck, higher salaries are paid to dog catchers, as opposed to a care giver. Why is it that more tax payer dollars are shelled out to house prison inmates annually, while a large percentage of citizens work full-time jobs, but are yet dubbed, "The working poor" earnings that place them at poverty level? Anyway, I'm going to leave that alone... Just can't figure out the rhyme & reason behind it all... But one thing I know for sure is that our country's priorities are misaligned. A country where children disrespect their parents, teachers, elders, and law enforcement... All in the name of "RIGHTS"

Wow!!! What an environment to assimilate into.

Thank God for the supporting Nigerian association meetings that provide an opportunity for everyone to come together to eat, dance, network, and just simply enjoy the camradere of fellow kinsman. A way of staying connected with ones traditional values, while transitioning into a new society (so to speak)..

[southernchic 0]

When i talk about assimilating into a new environment, i don't mean the fact of wearing jeans, talking on cellphones, having perms etc. Granted, a lot of western culture is of great influence in nigeria as is in many other countries but talking about clothes, technology does not begin to touch the surface of culture shock that is experienced once moving to the U.S this is from personal experience and family members that have recently moved here both in the youth and elderly age.

The most daunting struggle my hubby is attempting to comprehend is the American value system. In particular, the lack of family values/unity. Where in Naija can you so readily find Adult Care/Residential treatment facilities, and Senior living centers??? No, it's just a given that family members provide care for family-at all costs. America is known for being a 'Throw Away' society, in many aspects... We throw away our ill/dibilitated family when they inconvenience our lifestyle (God forbid we allow them to come live in our homes for a period longer than a weekend stay-if that....) Over 50% of American marriages are thrown away with "No fault divorce". Now, kids can go through the court system to divorce their parents. Finally, we waste our resources (natural & man made) like crazy! America is considered to be one of the best places in the world, if your primary focus is obtaining material wealth. However, where is the higher social moral ground? Heck, higher salaries are paid to dog catchers, as opposed to a care giver. Why is it that more tax payer dollars are shelled out to house prison inmates annually, while a large percentage of citizens work full-time jobs, but are yet dubbed, "The working poor" earnings that place them at poverty level? Anyway, I'm going to leave that alone... Just can't figure out the rhyme & reason behind it all... But one thing I know for sure is that our country's priorities are misaligned. A country where children disrespect their parents, teachers, elders, and law enforcement... All in the name of "RIGHTS"

Wow!!! What an environment to assimilate into.

Thank God for the supporting Nigerian association meetings that provide an opportunity for everyone to come together to eat, dance, network, and just simply enjoy the camradere of fellow kinsman. A way of staying connected with ones traditional values, while transitioning into a new society (so to speak)..

I think you make good points here...moving to the US isn't just about establishing a new family or a more comfortable way of life. But the irony to your statement is that with all the problems of the US and its culture our SOs will need to assimilate in some ways. America will be their home. the environment that seems so foreign will be come normal to them. That's the irony.

But on the postive side, being in an intercultural relationship has helped me embrace being an American more than I did in the past. I like our freedom. i like the equality women have here. I like the way the fact that we, as Americans, are so open and relaxed. We have a ton of problems but....America isn't the wort place on earth to live and assimilate into.

[ijeme 0]

I think you make good points here...moving to the US isn't just about establishing a new family or a more comfortable way of life. But the irony to your statement is that with all the problems of the US and its culture our SOs will need to assimilate in some ways. America will be their home. the environment that seems so foreign will be come normal to them. That's the irony.

But on the postive side, being in an intercultural relationship has helped me embrace being an American more than I did in the past. I like our freedom. i like the equality women have here. I like the way the fact that we, as Americans, are so open and relaxed. We have a ton of problems but....America isn't the wort place on earth to live and assimilate into.

I know I will offend some with this post but the truth hurts sometimes and I am about to vent so here goes….

Where is the elderly in your American family? I bet the answer will be still in her home more so than in an elderly facility.

Not everyone who places family members in a facility is more concerned about money than family. Some family are not mentally or financially able to care for anyone. Some people should not be taking care of others because they may be unfit to do so because they need constant medical care.

Nothing good goes without abuse but I am thankful for the existence of facilities for those people who need it. Free health care for the elderly and disabled, pregnant woman and children too. I think this helps our society and families in a lot of ways especially those families that can not afford to care of relatives. It keeps them off the street and keeps them from begging. It keeps them healthier; it keeps kids from having to be forced into child labor.

Have you seen the amount of begging in the streets in Lagos? In any public place there are beggars, some are lame, old, mothers with babies on hips and even kids who should be in kindergarten begging through car windows, these beggars just weaving in and out of crowds and traffic being ignored and shunned and hardly helped by their fellow bother. Do they have family? Would they benefit from a facility that provides food and shelter?

I have seen men and boys without legs riding on what looks like makeshift skateboards through markets and in traffic begging from people with said stories and crying on car doors but are simply being ignored. Where is the community or social groups for them? I am compelled to give because it is nothing I have ever seen before but for the average Nigerian these people are dismissed everyday. You have to see the polluted traffic that these are begging in to get the true picture here but I wish these people had an opportunity to have a place to go and be cared for since obviously their family cant do it.

[ijeme 0]

As for being money hungry, In the US there is some sense of law and order with it or should I say checks and balances. In Nigeria the money hunger appears more akin to corruption. From all forms of government (just look at the contracts for roads or the lapse in payments to government workers) to the phone company to the street vendor. Here in the US if you are cheated, you can complain and get resolution. If you find your purchase faulty you can usually return it or get some level of satisfaction. Where is the complaint department in Nigeria? Who will you complain to?

If you purchase something and try to return it in Lagos be ready for a fight because they will dismiss you as a stranger. Refunds or returns are just too rare without a dramatic crowd gathering scene. It is known that once you hand over the money it will not be return to you. So get the best price and be sure it is what you want.

Another interesting difference between what is apart of the 'Nigerian' lifestyle is bribes. In Lagos you can start spending money from the time you open your gate till you return on everything but what you want to buy. If you want to park, if you want a safe park, if you want to gain entry, if you are stopped by a cop and want to go free and not wait on the side of the road forever being processed, if you want anything that is given for free here in the US (its expected even) you are expected to pay a bribe in Lagos.

Oh and the Embassy is not without this Nigerian Factor, if you want to get in line for inquiry pay a bribe and you will get a signal to come up before he calls everyone else when it should be first come first serve.

Bribes bribes bribes I don’t know how the average person can survive there. We were told to bring crates of food and drinks as an offering for the registrar when trying to get my marriage license. Can you imagine? after paying $5000N to government workers for the license they wanted cases of indome noodles and apple drinks too! I could go on and on.... but the latest pet peeve of my SO is bribes for getting gasoline/petrol.

I gots ta share this, you can not pump your own gas in Lagos, they have attendants at the stations... Do you know these attendants can demand a bribe before pumping the gas for you! especially if you are buying gas in a can for use in a generator and you must have correct change because they don’t give change. The common phrase now is I don’t have change smaller than 100N or 50N. This practice is supported by the station owners and everyone, if you protest those waiting to buy behind you will fuss you and tell you to pay and move on claiming this is how we do it here.

Have you gone in for customer service anywhere in lagos? The workers have little compassion for customer service. Have you ever received service with a smile from anyone behind a desk in Nigeria (excluding major hotel staff)? Been to the airport, a restaurant, try to ride a taxi or bus..... where are the smiles and the how may I help you? Pass them some money and oh there are the smiles and service!

just trying to keep it real

[onwa 6]

I have read this thread with some interest.

On one side, you can list everything that is wrong with Nigeria. On the other side, you can list everything that is wrong in America.

What is most beneficial when starting your new family?

Find the strengths of both cultures and build upon that.

Dismissing your spouse's adjustment to the U.S. beacuse you think the U.S. is better, is not a good solution.

The foreign spouse refusing to assimilate to the U.S. to some degree is also not a good solution.

Just have patience, patience, patience. Don't matter where you come from, there is going to be adjustment. Understanding, for both partners, goes a long way in making a happy marraige.

[joej 0]

I have read this thread with some interest.

On one side, you can list everything that is wrong with Nigeria. On the other side, you can list everything that is wrong in America.

What is most beneficial when starting your new family?

Find the strengths of both cultures and build upon that.

Dismissing your spouse's adjustment to the U.S. beacuse you think the U.S. is better, is not a good solution.

The foreign spouse refusing to assimilate to the U.S. to some degree is also not a good solution.

Just have patience, patience, patience. Don't matter where you come from, there is going to be adjustment. Understanding, for both partners, goes a long way in making a happy marraige.

Well said.

I have been reading through this thread trying to keep my mouth shut. . Which country is better can be debated to no end, it comes down to a personal decision of if it is worth it to you. Since likes and dislikes vary among people. I happen to like the bribery system better than the underhanded secret system of corrupt politicians we have here. At least you know where you stand. As for the skateboard guys and beggars,....we have them here too, more prevalent in large cities of course. Ok so am I the only one that has seen homes in the US without running water, plumbing and electricity? Maybe those that think the US is such a great wealthy country should travel around the states and do some social work, I bet they would be amazed. Moving to the US can be a huge sacrifice(economical, spiritual, personal, emotional, cultural, etc.), depending on each individuals situation.

It always makes me sad to hear about a USC that feels they deserve a pat on the back for getting their SO here. They don't even realize what the person is giving up.

Just my 2 cents.

[southernchic 0]

I have read this thread with some interest.

On one side, you can list everything that is wrong with Nigeria. On the other side, you can list everything that is wrong in America.

What is most beneficial when starting your new family?

Find the strengths of both cultures and build upon that.

Dismissing your spouse's adjustment to the U.S. beacuse you think the U.S. is better, is not a good solution.

The foreign spouse refusing to assimilate to the U.S. to some degree is also not a good solution.

Just have patience, patience, patience. Don't matter where you come from, there is going to be adjustment. Understanding, for both partners, goes a long way in making a happy marraige.

I don't think people are dismissing their spouses adjustment to the US because there are more opportunities here. Some of us are just allowing ourselves to acknowledge our own struggles as US partners of new immigrantts and in doing so we are recognzing that the burden of the transition should completely fall on us as the US person...just because they left their homeland.

When Sultan first arrived from Ethiopia, I didn't think i had a right to be stressed out or frustrated because he was the one who left his mom, dad, sisters, brothers to live with me. One day I realized that I needed to acknowledge my own feelings and struggles. And its been much healthier for me. Just bc Sultan thinks this is how something "should be" doesn't mean I don't push back. I'm not one of those "pro-American" people but i do tell him that he's in the US now where some things are different. He doesn't have to embrace American ways but he should at least become familiar with the culture/country he has chosen to live in.

S

[masterpiece 2]

Not a sacrifice to leave "home" for a country where no matter how successful you are there is always that nagging feeling, thought, paranoia, conviction....take ur pick.....that you remain a second class citizen. Katrina and New Orleans offers lessons beyond expectations. Denzel Washington, Samuel Jackson have all attested to being pulled over....DWB...the movie crash has elucidated further. I beg to differ! Most people will leave home (home underscored) for economic reasons. The younger folks (got MTV??) will later come to understand, but for now...........Its all about the states and the "Yo! whats up??". Give em five years. At some point, there will be one experience that will remind them, very acutely, that they are far from home.

Well, with all the conditions in Nigeria, most would leave the states in a heartbeat and head back home if the government could just get its act right. No perfection (wouldn`t go for state of Utopia yet)....just being on the right track would do, but even with the "typhoid-infested water" (by the way, boiling and filtering would help....and there are tons of people who have never had typhoid and are not spending a fortune on bottled water either). Indeed there is a quiet renaissance of sorts going on. Some return after climbing the corporate ladder and understanding that the gaping hole is still not being abridged even with the new-found success. Perhaps they may attribute that to the almost regimented holidays...what? a family gets together when it is proper??....Labour day wekend, Memorial day, July 4 (oh lets not forget the family reunions...), thanksgiving, Xmas....all regimented. Or perhaps it is the smell of harmattan, the brazen request to be bribed, the non-bomabardment by the media of one homicide here and one pedophile there...i dont know what affects the senses but somewhere down the line, it sets in..........for the true Nigerian.

Whatever happened to the spontaneous...dropping by....Somewhere a study (?unofficial) ranked the happiest people in the world as being Nigerians. I daresay one may attribute that to the longing for interaction- pure and simple! Sadly, that interaction...on the level i am talking about....does not hold here in the states and that may well underscore the "home-sickness" that is bound to creep in at some point. Oh it will come, and when it does, romance, gifts, travel...so-called "fun-activities" may not curb it. Some understanding and appreciation of the core of the aloofness (at that time) may help. He/she will be there but not quite........like i said.................grab hold of a Nigerian/African friend to break it down because you may not fathom it or be able to discern fully when it sets in.........

Okay, i guess with all my ranting i forgot the questions that were directed to me earlier on...arghhhh!!!

Oh well, guess we will have to post this and maybe repost....

Edited September 3, 2006 by masterpiece